9:1 - Squirrel Girl vs. Goku Black

[Peypeypeypey]

8 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

I mean, she kinda has beaten people close to the level of Goku Black. Korvac and Ego come to mind.

I hadn't heard of her beating Ego before. I must have either overlooked it in her RT or maybe it wasn't listed. Beating Ego is certainly close to Black's level but the massive difference I see is speed. Ego is nebulously FTL, but Goku Black is at the very least thousands of times FTL based on some pretty low-end calcs. As for Korvac I would need to know which version of Korvac and see scans if you have them. Reddit appears to be down right now so I can't pull up her RT to check for them

[Macklemore]

1 minute ago, Peypeypeypey said:

As for Korvac I would need to know which version of Korvac and see scans if you have them.

That's the kicker, there's really none. It's just referenced, pretty much like every Squirrel Girl victory.

[Peypeypeypey]

2 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

That's the kicker, there's really none. It's just referenced, pretty much like every Squirrel Girl victory.

I see. I assume that's also where the Ego win comes from?

This gets back to my larger issue with characters like Squirrel Girl in these fights. We have no context for the fight and we don't really know what happened. For all we know, it was another Galactus situation where she talked him down, or it was a situation where she found some weakness to exploit or a way to seal him away or something. She alsos may have just one-shot him with a punch, although that's extremely unlikely given her character. The point is we just don't know. But her character has no consistency. In that same scan you listed she said she struggled with Fin Fang Foom, someone who isn't even stronger than planet-level, and yet they casually throw out several galaxy+ tier characters she apparently beat with ease. She's the kind of character that's antithetical to Vs. discussions like this, but going by the criteria that I use (best feats, most consistent showings, personality and tactics, etc.), I still think Black wins

[Fox]

There's two ways to look at Squirrel Girl here and neither of them are wrong.

1. With the power of extreme plot armor which cannot be defined, has no specific feats and yet has her defeating the most powerful of foes.

2. As a tier 8 character that controls squirrels.

This is a Cosmic Level CBUB tournament where people have chosen the manifestation of Death, right?   Every badass in the Multi-Verse is out there.  Me personally, I have to take Squirrel Girl at her Cosmic level in this tournament.  She essentially has cosmic level plot armor which is never defined using feats that are never shown.

[Peypeypeypey]

8 minutes ago, Fox said:

1. With the power of extreme plot armor which cannot be defined, has no specific feats and yet has her defeating the most powerful of foes.

My problem with that logic is that then she's just totally unbeatable in the least interesting way possible. No discussion can be anything other than 

"Will Squirrel Girl win?"

"Yes, because she has plot armor"

[Fox]

4 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

My problem with that logic is that then she's just totally unbeatable in the least interesting way possible. No discussion can be anything other than 

"Will Squirrel Girl win?"

"Yes, because she has plot armor"

Everyone will make up their own mind about where her plot armor stops scaling, I think.

For you, that's at Goku Black. 

For me, it could be any number of characters - Death for sure - but possibly not Goku Black.

For Movie Brat, probably when she comes up against one of his own characters.

[Macklemore]

13 minutes ago, Fox said:

For Movie Brat, probably when she comes up against one of his own characters.

This is the kicker. I suggest people take a stance right now and stick with it, lest they wanna look like hypocrites later on when Squirrel Girl faces up against their own characters.

[Peypeypeypey]

17 minutes ago, Fox said:

Everyone will make up their own mind about where her plot armor stops scaling, I think.

For you, that's at Goku Black. 

For me, it could be any number of characters - Death for sure - but possibly not Goku Black.

For Movie Brat, probably when she comes up against one of his own characters.

Lol I sort of thought Squirrel Girl was Movie Brat's character. Guess maybe I should pay more attention to who owns which character. 

I just don't see how you could logically justify setting up any kind of limit to her power with the parameters you've given her. You essentially said her power is "undefinably strong plot armor," so it doesn't really make sense to draw any kind of limit to it, at least not in any way I can see.

I'll leave the discussion here because I don't really think there's anything else I can add. I've explained my reasoning as well as I can, and I think my logic is solid, so unless someone says something pretty out there I'll drop it

[RakaiThwei]

Squirrel Girl is a meme for the mere idea that she beat Thanos. I mean wasn't that written as a joke, and people took that out of context? Especially here on this site?

Voting Goku Black...

[Fox]

1 hour ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I just don't see how you could logically justify setting up any kind of limit to her power with the parameters you've given her. You essentially said her power is "undefinably strong plot armor," so it doesn't really make sense to draw any kind of limit to it, at least not in any way I can see.

 

There have been multiple discussions out there about what Squirrel Girl's powers actually mean.

The one thing I think we must agree on is that it is a thing.

Now it's very clear that even Vs Battle Wiki wants to ignore that she is, essentially, the winning-est character in Marvel Comics and warns against scaling her.  All that means to me is that they recognize she can't be pigeon-holed and are taking their ball and going home.

I agree with the Redditor who does have a logical explanation, that being it is a power granted by some larger force in the Multi-Verse to her.

 

[Movie-Brat]

1 hour ago, Fox said:

Everyone will make up their own mind about where her plot armor stops scaling, I think.

For you, that's at Goku Black. 

For me, it could be any number of characters - Death for sure - but possibly not Goku Black.

For Movie Brat, probably when she comes up against one of his own characters.

Oh no, I'll concede to Squirrel Girl if she fights any of my own people. Though in some cases, I'd think the whole thing would end with Squirrel Girl befriending them like Sailor Moon, Naomi or even Captain Marvel. 

[Movie-Brat]

1 hour ago, RakaiThwei said:

Squirrel Girl is a meme for the mere idea that she beat Thanos. I mean wasn't that written as a joke, and people took that out of context? Especially here on this site?

Voting Goku Black...

No, she really did beat Thanos. 

[Peypeypeypey]

2 hours ago, Movie-Brat said:

No, she really did beat Thanos. 

Eh, it was a clone. It was also very dubiously canon. Regardless, beating Thanos isn't above the tier of people she can beat apparently, just correcting the record

[RakaiThwei]

6 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Eh, it was a clone. It was also very dubiously canon. Regardless, beating Thanos isn't above the tier of people she can beat apparently, just correcting the record

According to one poster there...

Quote

This occurred in GLX-MAS #1 published in 2005. It was a special holiday issue. The stories included are meant as parodies, and not canon within the main Marvel Universe.

The very feat was done for comedic effect and happened off-panel, and if this is not meant to be canon in the main Marvel universe-- then does this make this feat blown out of proportion for comedic effect to where it's effectively become a meme?

If this is the case... then she shouldn't win against Goku Black.

[Movie-Brat]

But considering Doctor Doom is one of the powerful villains in the Marvel universe, her beating Doom is actually still canon. 

[RakaiThwei]

4 hours ago, Movie-Brat said:

But considering Doctor Doom is one of the powerful villains in the Marvel universe, her beating Doom is actually still canon. 

That I can believe and I have seen the scan. She had her squirrel buddies gang up on him, which is something reasonable.

But I can see Goku Black using his Ki to make himself impervious to their scratches and bites, and either using his Ki to produce an aura to blow them off him, or transforming to Super Saiyan Rose to do the same, or using his Ki to produce a blast field to kill them off from him.

Then Squirrel Girl is in trouble.

[Fox]

10 hours ago, RakaiThwei said:

 

The very feat was done for comedic effect and happened off-panel, and if this is not meant to be canon in the main Marvel universe

 

Now explain her defeat of Galactus.

According to Marvel themselves everything she has done in Earth-616 is cannon.

Please see the Official Marvel Wiki.

Also note they give Squirrel Girl Max stats in every category from strength to intelligence.

I have to go with what Marvel Comics says in their official pages about their own character. 

As a neutral party just trying to make sense of the character, I subscribe to the theory that she's either a beyond-Omega level reality-warping mutant like Franklin Richards or simply favored by an ultra-powerful cosmic being in the Multi-Verse.

[Peypeypeypey]

11 minutes ago, Fox said:

Now explain her defeat of Galactus

She didn't actually defeat Galactus. She just talked him down

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Squirrel Girl: 8
Goku Black: 5

[DSkillz]

1 hour ago, UMPIRE said:

Match Final Results

Squirrel Girl: 8
Goku Black: 5

Heh. 

Now see, this is why I don't often talk up characters that I didn't draft. Squirrel Girl may be more than just a dark horse in this Draft now.

[Movie-Brat]

2 hours ago, UMPIRE said:

Match Final Results

Squirrel Girl: 8
Goku Black: 5

For those who said Goku Black, you were saying?

[C.T.]

People have lost matches they probably should have won before...