13:2 - Po vs. Ghost Predator

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, Movie-Brat said:

Not too sure considering he has impressive weaponry. But to be fair, he's supposed to be an early Predator.

He is not an early Predator. He's a different sub-species, like the Super Predators. He came from a different hemisphere from the Yautja homeworld according to BTS commentary.

The Predators we know were still around then too.

 

5 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Possibly worse if it came down to a fight. But also he came off as less understanding compared to other Predators, at least in my opinion.

Feral was an idiot of a Predator. I am not saying that just because I hate the movie but because he made a lot of mistakes.

Compare his awareness of his surroundness to Jungle Hunter's awareness to more intricate and better thought out traps... He comes up short. Badly.

Also he doesn't even know how his own weapons work and he was equipped with that bolt gun?

I don't get the love for Feral...

[Magnamax]

Preds ripping spines feels like Batman using the grapple. Batman would need to be super humanely strong to hold the grapple without it ripping his arm off, but Batman uses a grapple so everyone just lets to go because it’s cool to see Batman grapple. What’s the easiest/most badass way to visualize Predators taking a proof of kill? Spine rip. 
 

in other words, creative shorthand doesn’t always have to 1:1 account for direct capabilities of the character. Writers aren’t experts in stuff, mostly it’s to show stuff for the audience’s sake. 

[Culwych1]

I don't think the specific type of Predator will make a difference in this battle (although to be fair I don't know the details about all of them). But nothing I've read or seen of them makes me think that they couldn't be convinced to stop hunting Po, who has a number of different methods at his disposal to do so.

If it did require a tougher way of convincing the Pred, then again, he has a huge number of feats at his disposal which could incapacitate or downright kill the alien. 

That said, I am now a lot more curious about the different types of Predator; there are so many in the Database that they could be a season slot in themselves!

[RakaiThwei]

Why do people think that this match up is a fight or should result in a fight?

I mean if we're looking at the set up, it's to convince one side that the other isn't up for hunting season. This would suggest verbal communication to attempt to sway the other party to just call it a day and not attempt to hunt.

1 hour ago, Magnamax said:

Preds ripping spines feels like Batman using the grapple. Batman would need to be super humanely strong to hold the grapple without it ripping his arm off, but Batman uses a grapple so everyone just lets to go because it’s cool to see Batman grapple. What’s the easiest/most badass way to visualize Predators taking a proof of kill? Spine rip.

Except in the DC Universe, DC Humans are stronger than IRL Human Beings. So there's a leg up in achieving above peak human or superhuman feats for someone like Batman because he is a DC Human. Batman is considered the bench mark to be peak human, but by our IRL metric, he should be superhuman.

As for Predators ripping spines out, well... It's there, clean cut as we see it multiple times in the movies to where it is consistent. Granted you're right about the writers just throwing it in to be bad-ass, but the fact that someone did the math right there was surprising to me. Whether or not you choose to count the EU, be it Pre-Disney/Marvel Canon (I refer to it as Dark Horse canon or Old Canon ) or current Disney/Marvel canon, is entirely up to the individual.

Personally, I choose to incorporate the EU for Predators because they've got more showings of superhuman abilities, and if we count AVP material, well... it paints are more interesting picture. Specifically, Dark Horse canon because that's my preferred canon.

Disney/Marvel canon? The only thing good which came out of that was Predator vs Wolverine.

[Peypeypeypey]

4 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Why do people think that this match up is a fight or should result in a fight?

I mean if we're looking at the set up, it's to convince one side that the other isn't up for hunting season. This would suggest verbal communication to attempt to sway the other party to just call it a day and not attempt to hunt.

The logic is that the predator will not hunt if he physically can't hunt. The set up just says Po has to "convince the hunter he is not in season." That could be verbally getting him to agree to back off, but it doesn't say it has to be. All Po has to do is convince the predator to back off one way or another, at least as I'm reading it

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, Peypeypeypey said:

The logic is that the predator will not hunt if he physically can't hunt. The set up just says Po has to "convince the hunter he is not in season." That could be verbally getting him to agree to back off, but it doesn't say it has to be. All Po has to do is convince the predator to back off one way or another, at least as I'm reading it

The way I look at it is pretty legit and to the point.

"Convince the Hunter to back off."

I don't look at it as "Convince the Hunter to back off. If he doesn't, fight."

I mean... Predators, from the years I've read up on them, don't give a damn if they're outclassed even from a physical standpoint. If they think they can take something on, they will take something on... to the point where it might even be considered foolish, at least without a plan or some prep time. The more wiser of the Hunters would take the option of prep time as they observe their prey and then confront said prey. I mean for God's sake, they'll even fight Superman and they straight up did in two different instances.

Hell, one of them is even trying to make a go for Wolverine right now, and people would point out that's pointless cause of the Adamantium skeleton but Predators are gonna do it anyway.

But THIS particular Hunter? Ghost aka City Hunter? Yeah, he's going to dive into this hunt head first and I don't see Po successfully meeting the criteria to convince him to back off. Based on just THAT... just THAT... Through trying to verbally communicate, or even gesture to communicate, I don't see Po reaching this Hunter. And that's why I vote Ghost.

Fight? Whole other barrel of fish.

[Peypeypeypey]

3 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

The way I look at it is pretty legit and to the point.

"Convince the Hunter to back off."

I don't look at it as "Convince the Hunter to back off. If he doesn't, fight."

I mean... Predators, from the years I've read up on them, don't give a damn if they're outclassed even from a physical standpoint. If they think they can take something on, they will take something on... to the point where it might even be considered foolish, at least without a plan or some prep time. The more wiser of the Hunters would take the option of prep time as they observe their prey and then confront said prey. I mean for God's sake, they'll even fight Superman and they straight up did in two different instances.

Hell, one of them is even trying to make a go for Wolverine right now, and people would point out that's pointless cause of the Adamantium skeleton but Predators are gonna do it anyway.

But THIS particular Hunter? Ghost aka City Hunter? Yeah, he's going to dive into this hunt head first and I don't see Po successfully meeting the criteria to convince him to back off. Based on just THAT... just THAT... Through trying to verbally communicate, or even gesture to communicate, I don't see Po reaching this Hunter. And that's why I vote Ghost.

Fight? Whole other barrel of fish.

I think that interpretation is valid but it's a lot more limiting for both parties and makes the debate a lot less interesting and fun. It basically makes it impossible for the animal to win. I think if the animal has any way to stop the hunt, including winning a fight, then it's valid

[Magnamax]

17 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Why do people think that this match up is a fight or should result in a fight?

I mean if we're looking at the set up, it's to convince one side that the other isn't up for hunting season. This would suggest verbal communication to attempt to sway the other party to just call it a day and not attempt to hunt.

Except in the DC Universe, DC Humans are stronger than IRL Human Beings. So there's a leg up in achieving above peak human or superhuman feats for someone like Batman because he is a DC Human. Batman is considered the bench mark to be peak human, but by our IRL metric, he should be superhuman.

As for Predators ripping spines out, well... It's there, clean cut as we see it multiple times in the movies to where it is consistent. Granted you're right about the writers just throwing it in to be bad-ass, but the fact that someone did the math right there was surprising to me. Whether or not you choose to count the EU, be it Pre-Disney/Marvel Canon (I refer to it as Dark Horse canon or Old Canon ) or current Disney/Marvel canon, is entirely up to the individual.

Personally, I choose to incorporate the EU for Predators because they've got more showings of superhuman abilities, and if we count AVP material, well... it paints are more interesting picture. Specifically, Dark Horse canon because that's my preferred canon.

Disney/Marvel canon? The only thing good which came out of that was Predator vs Wolverine.

People are assuming communication isn’t happening. If Poe leaves him as a big pile o’ green goo, then he has pretty well convinced the predator not to hunt. 
 

my point is that people shouldn’t be arguing things that are ancillary— such as Batman’s grapple gun, or Preds ripping spines— as baseline feats. These aren’t how they perform in combat, and I don’t think they should be used in good faith. Predators aren’t displaying the level of strength that the spine-tearing feat suggests. The same logic applies to Mortal Kombat fatalities. Subzero isn’t strong enough to rip out spines left and right, but does it in a specific context. Either way, Po is powerful enough to speak the language of fists. The Predator will eventually understand that.

[Movie-Brat]

I mean, I'm just saying no matter which Predator, I don't think they're going back off from hunting. Especially if he witnessed Po or the Furious fighting opponents.

I mean, Feral went after animals, then Indigenous people and white French colonialists. And Ghost Predator went after cops and gangs and at one point a xenomorph. 

[RakaiThwei]

13 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I think that interpretation is valid but it's a lot more limiting for both parties and makes the debate a lot less interesting and fun. It basically makes it impossible for the animal to win. I think if the animal has any way to stop the hunt, including winning a fight, then it's valid

For me, I just took it as is.

It's the Elmer Fudd/Daffy Duck/Bugs Bunny scenario... You know where one of the animals says "It's Rabbit season!" or "It's Duck season!" and they cycle it around to get Elmer to hunt the other guy.

That's just how I looked at this scenario. Except the other guy who's trying to get the hunter to hunt the other furry animal isn't there.

9 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

People are assuming communication isn’t happening. If Poe leaves him as a big pile o’ green goo, then he has pretty well convinced the predator not to hunt.

Except that's not convincing... That's a fight.

Which I don't think this set up suggests.

9 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

my point is that people shouldn’t be arguing things that are ancillary— such as Batman’s grapple gun, or Preds ripping spines— as baseline feats. These aren’t how they perform in combat, and I don’t think they should be used in good faith.

Except... they have done spine ripping in combat.

Especially in the subway scene when the Predator ripped Jerry Lambert's spine right out from the front of his mid-section. I even posted a video with that footage. Jerry was STILL alive when his spine was being ripped out of him.

And if you count the EU material, well... they even do this in the games. Cut scenes too!

You mention Sub-Zero's spine ripping but as far as I know, outside of MK's fatalities, he hasn't done them in a canonical storyline (and considering MK's timeline thing, all storylines-- movies or otherwise are canon).

 

 

 

[Magnamax]

2 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

For me, I just took it as is.

It's the Elmer Fudd/Daffy Duck/Bugs Bunny scenario... You know where one of the animals says "It's Rabbit season!" or "It's Duck season!" and they cycle it around to get Elmer to hunt the other guy.

That's just how I looked at this scenario. Except the other guy who's trying to get the hunter to hunt the other furry animal isn't there.

Except that's not convincing... That's a fight.

Which I don't think this set up suggests.

Except... they have done spine ripping in combat.

Especially in the subway scene when the Predator ripped Jerry Lambert's spine right out from the front of his mid-section. I even posted a video with that footage. Jerry was STILL alive when his spine was being ripped out of him.

And if you count the EU material, well... they even do this in the games. Cut scenes too!

 

 

 

I think if he’s incapacitated, or If he’s dead, he’s convinced. Even in the Elmer Fudd scenario, Fudd still comes after Bugs, he’s just momentarily bamboozled. By that logic, I’m sure Po can just hoodwink the Predator, bound away and win by the same logic. 

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree on spine-ripping. I think it’s pretty inconsistent with the Predators’ combat feats in general.

[Movie-Brat]

12 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

I think if he’s incapacitated, or If he’s dead, he’s convinced. Even in the Elmer Fudd scenario, Fudd still comes after Bugs, he’s just momentarily bamboozled. By that logic, I’m sure Po can just hoodwink the Predator, bound away and win by the same logic. 

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree on spine-ripping. I think it’s pretty inconsistent with the Predators’ combat feats in general.

I mean, Predators are egotistical and prideful that they can get tricked but I doubt Predators would fall for cartoon antics. 

Dutch, Harrigan and Naru won against the Predators with their sound logic and expertise.

[RakaiThwei]

10 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

I think if he’s incapacitated, or If he’s dead, he’s convinced. Even in the Elmer Fudd scenario, Fudd still comes after Bugs, he’s just momentarily bamboozled. By that logic, I’m sure Po can just hoodwink the Predator, bound away and win by the same logic.

Here is how I am looking at it.... and this is quite literally how I interpret this.

Ghost Predator encounters Po, Po... being the peaceful and happy go lucky person who he is... Doesn't want to fight, and tries to convince this Yautja that he's not worthy game. Now, we have to assume... that this Predator has seen Po fight by happenstance, and didn't expect this loveable oaf to be a Kung-Fu master with Kung-Fu magic to boot, cause you know... Kids movie with fantasy elements. So let's assume that this Predator has seen Po, encounters him and is making a go for him.

Po's life in danger. He is a peaceful individual who doesn't seem to be a killer and wants a peaceful resolution. The Predator... isn't someone who cares about that. The only way to get most Predators to back off is to either be a pregnant woman, a child, or a sickly individual (and the last one DOES have a caveat as evidenced with Charles Bishop Weyland's death at the hands of Scar in AVP, who SPARED Weyland's life at first until Weyland persisted).

Wouldn't that by this logic assume that Po FAILED in convincing the Predator to back off, even if it does go into combat that's not in the Predator's favor?

3 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

Dutch, Harrigan and Naru won against the Predators with their sound logic and expertise.

Eeeeh... Regarding Dutch? Yeah, even he's admitted he should've died in Val Verde 1987, and that he got lucky. He's even confirmed that in the audio tapes in Predator Hunting Grounds. The log which crushed Diablo wasn't even intended to be part of the trap, it was just counter weight to keep that spiked log up. It was shit ass luck that killed Diablo.

Harrigan? Well, his is more reasonable. Ghost here, got cocky because he was a Young Blood and he left his guard wide open.

[Movie-Brat]

1 minute ago, RakaiThwei said:

Here is how I am looking at it.... and this is quite literally how I interpret this.

Ghost Predator encounters Po, Po... being the peaceful and happy go lucky person who he is... Doesn't want to fight, and tries to convince this Yautja that he's not worthy game. Now, we have to assume... that this Predator has seen Po fight by happenstance, and didn't expect this loveable oaf to be a Kung-Fu master with Kung-Fu magic to boot, cause you know... Kids movie with fantasy elements. So let's assume that this Predator has seen Po, encounters him and is making a go for him.

Po's life in danger. He is a peaceful individual who doesn't seem to be a killer and wants a peaceful resolution. The Predator... isn't someone who cares about that. The only way to get most Predators to back off is to either be a pregnant woman, a child, or a sickly individual (and the last one DOES have a caveat as evidenced with Charles Bishop Weyland's death at the hands of Scar in AVP, who SPARED Weyland's life at first until Weyland persisted).

Wouldn't that by this logic assume that Po FAILED in convincing the Predator to back off, even if it does go into combat that's not in the Predator's favor?

Eeeeh... Regarding Dutch? Yeah, even he's admitted he should've died in Val Verde 1987, and that he got lucky. He's even confirmed that in the audio tapes in Predator Hunting Grounds. The log which crushed Diablo wasn't even intended to be part of the trap, it was just counter weight to keep that spiked log up. It was shit ass luck that killed Diablo.

Harrigan? Well, his is more reasonable. Ghost here, got cocky because he was a Young Blood and he left his guard wide open.

Yeah but I consider improvisation to be a benefit for Dutch. 

[RakaiThwei]

9 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

Yeah but I consider improvisation to be a benefit for Dutch. 

I get you but... I just find it irritating that people hold Dutch as the gold standard in killing Predators. He didn't kill the Predator, it was just bad luck on the Predator's end that got him cornered. Literally in the wrong place and the wrong time with the counter weight log. Diablo did the rest himself with the self-destruct sequence.

If anything... Harrigan has the better kill.

[Peypeypeypey]

2 hours ago, RakaiThwei said:

For me, I just took it as is.

It's the Elmer Fudd/Daffy Duck/Bugs Bunny scenario... You know where one of the animals says "It's Rabbit season!" or "It's Duck season!" and they cycle it around to get Elmer to hunt the other guy.

That's just how I looked at this scenario. Except the other guy who's trying to get the hunter to hunt the other furry animal isn't there.

As I explained earlier, that's a fair enough way to interpret it, but that's just not a very fun or variable competition. There really isn't a lot of debate or wiggle room for that scenario. It's very restrictive. The category doesn't say the animal can't fight or has to verbally talk the hunter down. It just says they have to convince them. Stopping the hunter from hunting is a valid interpretation of convincing them to stop in my eyes

[Movie-Brat]

3 hours ago, RakaiThwei said:

I get you but... I just find it irritating that people hold Dutch as the gold standard in killing Predators. He didn't kill the Predator, it was just bad luck on the Predator's end that got him cornered. Literally in the wrong place and the wrong time with the counter weight log. Diablo did the rest himself with the self-destruct sequence.

If anything... Harrigan has the better kill.

Like I said, Pride does tend to be an actual weakness of the Predators so, Diablo may had been too sure of himself. But you're right about Dutch as I consider Naru the gold standard anyway.

But Harrigan, yeah. Him too.

[Pizzaguy2995]

Dang has this been a doozy, it’s basically been Rakai vs The World and it’s still so close. Good on you for not backing down Rakai, gonna be hard for me to choose.

[Movie-Brat]

22 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Dang has this been a doozy, it’s basically been Rakai vs The World and it’s still so close. Good on you for not backing down Rakai, gonna be hard for me to choose.

Hey I voted for Ghost Predator. I want my guy to win.

[Magnamax]

I think my mind is made up for Po because he can win the following ways:

-submission

-cartoon antics confusing the predator enough he gets away

-predator decides hunting Po isn’t worth it because Po’s a lazy dude

-Predator decides to not hunt him because Po’s too powerful

The predator wins only if:

-we count him deciding to hunt after po asks him not to as a win.

 

 

[Movie-Brat]

Which the Predator is not going to listen to.

[Peypeypeypey]

3 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

I think my mind is made up for Po because he can win the following ways:

-submission

-cartoon antics confusing the predator enough he gets away

-predator decides hunting Po isn’t worth it because Po’s a lazy dude

-Predator decides to not hunt him because Po’s too powerful

The predator wins only if:

-we count him deciding to hunt after po asks him not to as a win.

To piggyback off this last point, if we accept that as a win for the hunter, then the hunter literally cannot lose this category. The hunters in this category are all smart and determined. It's a reductive argument to say that the animal literally has to talk the hunter out of hunting. Anything the animal can do to stop the hunt permanently, including incapacitation, trickery, escaping, or persuasiveness, should all count as wins for the animal

[RakaiThwei]

2 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Dang has this been a doozy, it’s basically been Rakai vs The World and it’s still so close. Good on you for not backing down Rakai, gonna be hard for me to choose.

It has been like that since 2008 when I joined the CBUB.

The Predator character used to be one of my favorite characters and after years and years of seeing them taking losses, being disregarded, losing to characters that are just downright silly.... I'm not going to lie when I say this but I got very agitated and made it a mission back then to do my best to research the Predator characters, the universe they inhabited in, to attempt to educate and maybe change people's minds about the Yautja. That they're not just to be jobbers to superheroes from either Marvel or DC, or to be made laughing stocks to losing to children's funny animals. They they should win more often that they lose if we take away protagonist plot armor and take away plot induced stupidity from the Predator characters.

Then 2010 came, Robert Rodriguez's movie came in-- more or less changed and took away from the canon. 2018 happened with Shane Black's The Predator, which to me... was the final nail in the coffin, especially with how it had a ridiculous plot about Predators harvesting genetics from prey to enhance themselves, a Predator wanting to kill an Autistic child and harvest his autism to become a deadlier creature, that film effectively ruined the franchise for me.

Then the Disney purchase of Alien-Predator happened, and it's a safe bet to assume that the Dark Horse EU material, the previous games released, and the books which came out from 1989 to 2013 are now considered non-canonical (however, ALIEN canon consultants Scott Middlebrook and Andrew Gaska have said canon is malleable and this is even confirmed in the Alien TTRPG book-- take that as you will). And a lot of my knowledge of Predators is now considered obsolete and perhaps, depending on the set up of debates... is non-viable and invalid.

I'm not gonna lie... I'm bitter about the last three movies released, and that's including Prey. I didn't like that movie, if only because of the god awful decision to make ANOTHER sub-species, changing the story about the flintlock in Predator 2 (Dark Horse did it better with Predator: 1718. Sorry, not sorry.) and giving us a terrible creature design for the Predator.

But.... I made my decision to stand by Ghost Predator as someone who knows Predators, how they think, behave, even if my knowledge is obsolete, there's still the first two films which laid the foundations. And the personalities of the characters is something strongly to consider.

1 hour ago, Magnamax said:

I think my mind is made up for Po because he can win the following ways:

-submission

Except Predators never really submit. They either succeed or die in the hunt.

The Yautja are overly persistent in what they do. I mean think about like this...

Let's assume someone wanted me dead, and they wanted to make an attempt at my life. Now, I give out verbal warnings for them to stay back, they don't heed my warning. Then the attempt on my life is made, and I fight back with numerous strikes and holds, shoves and slams, and my attacker is still going for my life, and I even tell him to stop or even outright demand he stops... He's not stopping. This guy wants me DEAD. I've already tried talking, I've tried incapacitating, and he's made the attempt. He's not changed his mind about ending me. So I have to decide if it's him or me... and it's not going to be me. Let's say my attacker was ended... Did I change his mind in not trying to kill me? No, he made his mind up, he made the attack, he tried to see the attempt through. I, as the defender, FAILED in persuading and convincing him.

He hasn't been convinced of anything... Because he's DEAD.

The dead cannot be convinced. They're just that.

DEAD.

Also... even if Po does incapacitate the Predator, that's the WORST THING HE CAN DO... Dutch found that out the hard way.

And Po better hope can outrun the blast and sufficient... because Peter Keyes did say in Predator 2, that the self-destruction explosion is enough to cover over 300 city blocks, that's 13.21 miles radius. Sure, Dutch survived but he sustained massive burns and some radiation sickness according to Sean Keyes' and Dutch's audio tapes in Hunting Grounds.

Predators will either kill their prey, die in the attempt or take you with them.

1 hour ago, Magnamax said:

-cartoon antics confusing the predator enough he gets away

The Yautja are overly persistent in the hunt. Getting away from them is a temporary solution, and if you do get away... the learn how you escaped, and see to it that you don't get away from them. You could spend YEARS in getting away from a Yautja, and they'll find you sooner or later.

Just ask Wolverine... in fact that's the whole story about Predator vs Wolverine. Both the Yautja and Logan encountered each other in 1909, Logan had to make the escape because he didn't stand a chance in a straight up fight with a Young Blooded Yautja at the time as he had no Adamantium in his claws. In 1962.... the Predator found him again during his tenure with Team X, and Team X got decimated. Logan didn't even want to get into a fight with this one Predator and his clan, and focused on escaping. The Predator tracked him ALL THE WAY down to the Canadian border at Weapon X facility, found Logan AS his bones were getting laced with Adamantium, and after Logan escaped again.... the Predator found him AGAIN in Japan, as he was training with Muramasa... and now the Predator found Logan AGAIN in current times.

The Predator will find Po if he really wanted to.

1 hour ago, Magnamax said:

-predator decides hunting Po isn’t worth it because Po’s a lazy dude

Then this match would be moot. The Predator would have to notice that Po, despite the lovable cartoon oaf that he is, is his universe's Chosen One. Otherwise, the context of this match is moot.

1 hour ago, Magnamax said:

-Predator decides to not hunt him because Po’s too powerful

If a Predator sees a challenge, it will make the attempt to overcome that challenge-- either through study and prep time, which doesn't really seem to be this particular Yautja's method of hunting which would perhaps better his chances in killing Po... or in this case, Ghost will try and either ambush Po with his cloaking and go for a quick kill (Predators do that. Hell, Ghost did it in the penthouse in Predator 2 when he was killing the Jamaicans. And Ghost even managed to kill Peter Keyes' OWL strike team which had prior knowledge of the Yautja from previous encounters, and even found a way to get around their heat insulated suits which hid their thermal signature).

Also... the Predators have fought Superman.

Non-canonical, but my point stands...

1 hour ago, Magnamax said:

-we count him deciding to hunt after po asks him not to as a win.

Movie-Brat has that covered. Ghost Predator isn't going to listen.

1 hour ago, Movie-Brat said:

Hey I voted for Ghost Predator. I want my guy to win.

Your chosen Yautja is not on my team but.... knowing what I know of the Yautja, knowledge being obsolete or relevant... still applies in his case.

[Movie-Brat]

Like I'm just saying, the Preds won't listen. They're the type that's set in their ways no matter what. 

Also to go to bat for Prey again, agree to disagree but I've seen the 4th Predator and Prey was a breath of fresh air after that farce. 

[RakaiThwei]

4 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

Also to go to bat for Prey again, agree to disagree but I've seen the 4th Predator and Prey was a breath of fresh air after that farce. 

We can agree that Shane Black's Predator movie was a farce and arguably the lowest point in the franchise, but that's not exactly a high bar to hurdle over.