Most Underrated Characters on CBUB

[Indolent]

Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz: Colony at 1:16.

 

1:16 beam goes through the colony.

1:17 bunch of little sparkles inside the colony.

1:18 the colony blows up.

 

If his gun was purely DET, or was a whatever-ton weapon as you claim, it would have detonated earlier. Heero is clearly shooting for the reactor of these large targets (he's a military man, his suit has sensors, he's trained on how to use his weapon to the best effects so it's a very safe assumption that he would know how to shoot).

 

I mean hell, look at 1:00. A Leo crashes with a Mobile Doll, and they, for some reason explode.

Look at 1:02, a Leo gets its arm blown off, then shot in the arm, leg and shoulder. None of the shots seem to puncture/penetrate it at all.

 

And yet it explodes.

 

Almost everything seems to explode in that series. And they are damaged from weaponry that doesn't even seem to rate as kiloton, Bolo's have megaton range guns.

 

As for the Cthulhu stuff, most people forget that Cthulhu and the other assorted beings aren't gods in the magical "I can't ever lose and science can't touch me!" sense, but gods in the "humanity circa 1920-30s can't understand me" sense. Most of those books are from the point of view of people who are talking out of their ass, who are already going insane and such. As such, why believe what they say?

 

When people see Cthulhu it's an automatic "Oh he makes everyone go crazy". Yet in the books this doesn't happen. Why do they take "Cthulhu makes near crazy people go crazier in the 1920s" to mean "Cthulhu makes everyone go crazy, no matter how advanced they are".

 

I just realized it'd be interesting to see a scenario were Cthulhu wakes up and HE goes "Oh shit, what did I wake up to?" and there are machine beings/super advanced people walking around going "Oh Cthulhu, isn't he quiant? Awww look at him trying to be scary".

Uh, that wasn't the colony, that was the meteroid base I spoke of...

 

And I wasn't contesting the firepower of the weaker weapons that damaged the gundam's armor. I was only merely saying it takes a lot of shots from these to be able to dent it then destroy it.

 

Everything does explode. Might be a side effect of the beam weapons?

[Skirmisher]

Uh, that wasn't the colony, that was the meteroid base I spoke of...

You're thinking of the Gundam Seed version IIRC, right? The guy without any military Training, who managed to annihilate his home Colony in the Gundam he jumped into for the first time?

[Guest Ruinus]

Uh, that wasn't the colony, that was the meteroid base I spoke of...

 

And? Point still stands. He shots their reactor cores or whatever, and they explode via secondary reactions. If you have a counter example show it.

 

Everything does explode. Might be a side effect of the beam weapons?

 

Or everything explodes because their reactors are shodily built? Again, look at that Leo that crashed into the Mobile Doll. They explode. The Leo took fire, but the Mobile Doll had its shields up, it's not caused by a secondary effect of their weapons.

[Indolent]

You're thinking of the Gundam Seed version IIRC, right? The guy without any military Training, who managed to annihilate his home Colony in the Gundam he jumped into for the first time?

No, it was before Endless Waltz.

 

Here:

 

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-00W0_Wing_Gundam_Zero

 

look under Twin Buster Rifle.

 

Even when the rifle is separated, it was able to destroy waves of enemy suits... >.>

[Indolent]

And? Point still stands. He shots their reactor cores or whatever, and they explode via secondary reactions. If you have a counter example show it.

 

 

 

Or everything explodes because their reactors are shodily built? Again, look at that Leo that crashed into the Mobile Doll. They explode. The Leo took fire, but the Mobile Doll had its shields up, it's not caused by a secondary effect of their weapons.

Or maybe he also shot the ammunition and the mobile suits stored on that base? It was an army base... Anyways, the damage he did in one shot was enough to destroy it as it was seen splitting off in pieces before it exploded. So my question is... if the secondary explosions had not occurred, would the first shot, that caused it to split apart before it exploded, be enough to destroy it? Not like obliterate it entirely.

 

Okay. Its been a while since I read the manga. Yeah, just the manga. The only Anime I saw was the Endless Waltz.

[Guest Ruinus]

...Um, the Cone Things they inhabited were not Old Ones... no, they were just things that lived long lives and yes were made of terrestial matter...

 

Which directly describes the Elder Things; long lived creatures, made of terrestial matter, responsible for life on Earth. The only thing that doesn't fit is "cone-shaped" as the description.

 

As for not making Machine Bodies, well I think that might have hampered their Immense Psychic Powers and Time Travel Abilities, so that would be a BIG No-No for them...

 

Unless Lovecraft set down some "machines can't have psychic powers or time travel" why should we assume this? Psychic powers are usually mental in nature, why can't a machine simulate a mental power if it can simulate a mind?

 

BTW: Their star was dying? They didn't know how to inject more material into it's core to keep it alive?

 

As for Bio-Engineering themselves new bodies, well they seem to use their ability to move Great distances with speed, so seeing as how their world was dying they couldn't really benefit from making new bodies on their homeworld, and couldn't have really made new bodies across vast distances of time and space...

 

No, they left their planet because of their dying world/star, and used the Elder Things because they had long lives. You'd think if they were really as all knowing as they claim, they would have picked whoever (any race with technology) and started pumping out their super science and bio-engineered themselves better bodies on the spot. Instead they had to specifically search for the Elder Things here on Earth.

 

And then this all knowing race got killed by people who control wind in battle.

[Guest Ruinus]

Or maybe he also shot the ammunition and the mobile suits stored on that base? It was an army base...

 

Which was what I said in the beginning:

Also, whenever it destroyed a larger target (the space stations and asteroids) it always seems to aim at the reactor of said space station or asteroid, which causes various secondary explorions.

If he hits the shields of a Bolo, he won't be causing any secondary explosions. And hence, we go by the guns own yield, which is never shown to be very high anyways.

 

Anyways, the damage he did in one shot was enough to destroy it as it was seen splitting off in pieces before it exploded.

 

Or maybe that's because what he shot at was already the wreckage of the battleship Libra? It's not impressive breaking apart a ship if that ship was already breaking apart.

 

So my question is... if the secondary explosions had not occurred, would the first shot, that caused it to split apart before it exploded, be enough to destroy it? Not like obliterate it entirely.

 

Probably not? I don't ever remember it leveling cities in the cartoons.

[Skirmisher]

Ruinus said:

Which directly describes the Elder Things; long lived creatures, made of terrestial matter, responsible for life on Earth. The only thing that doesn't fit is "cone-shaped" as the description.

Note that there is a Great Difference between what Chtulu was, and the Elder Things...

 

"The Great Old Ones are ancient extraterrestrial beings of immense power, and most are also colossal in size. These entities seem to have a physical shape, but being cosmic lifeforms from beyond our space-time continuum means they are not based on matter in our definition of the concept, yet their forms are built on principles similar enough to those of true matter that they appear to be material in their nature."

 

Compare to the Elder Things

 

"The Elder Things were the first extraterrestrial species to come to the Earth, colonizing the planet about one billion years ago. They stood roughly six feet tall and had the appearance of a huge, oval-shaped barrel with starfish-like appendage at both ends. The top appendage was a head adorned with five eyes, five eating tubes, and a set of cilia for "seeing" without light. The bottom appendage was five-limbed and was used for walking and other forms of locomotion. The beings also had five leathery, retractable wings and five sets of tentacles that sprouted from their torsos. Both their tentacles and the slits housing their folded wings were spaced at regular intervals about their bodies."

 

Note the Differences...

 

 

Ruinus said:

Unless Lovecraft set down some "machines can't have psychic powers or time travel" why should we assume this? Psychic powers are usually mental in nature, why can't a machine simulate a mental power if it can simulate a mind?

 

BTW: Their star was dying? They didn't know how to inject more material into it's core to keep it alive?

Meh, Psychic Powers are generally considered "Organic Only" abilities, and I have yet to read a story that has a Robot "reaching out with it's mind" or whatever, as they usually use Technology for that kind of stuff.

 

IDK, you'd have to ask them

 

 

Ruinus said:

No, they left their planet because of their dying world/star, and used the Elder Things because they had long lives. You'd think if they were really as all knowing as they claim, they would have picked whoever (any race with technology) and started pumping out their super science and bio-engineered themselves better bodies on the spot. Instead they had to specifically search for the Elder Things here on Earth.

 

And then this all knowing race got killed by people who control wind in battle.

"The members of the race took over the bodies of a dormant cone shaped beings" I assume that they were searching for a Being that didn't possess a mind as they didn't want to Transfer a Whole Civilization onto the Brink of Annihilation... That would be Genocide, and no matter what Alien Morals there are I am sure that Genocide is one thing that would be frowned upon the Universe Over.

 

What they found with the Cones was a Body that was Long Lived, Rugged, Could manipulate the world around it, and Most importantly was Empty. From there, why fix what isn't broken?

 

As for being wiped out by the Flying Polyps...

 

"These creature were partially material and partially ethereal, existing half way into a plane of existence we do not understand... The Flying Polyps were extremely plastic, being able to take on any shape they desired, and could temporarily become invisible... These creatures were solid enough to use tools to create buildings and other necessities of life... Additionally, the Polyps could control the wind with frightening accuracy, and used the wind in military efforts often. The Flying Polyps were an especially cruel race, preying horribly on any race they encountered..."

 

"When the Great Race of Yith came down to inhabit the bodies of the cone creatures nearly five hundred million years ago, they subdued and trapped the Flying Polyps in the catacombs beneath the basalt cities using energy weapons."

 

"As time passed, the Flying Polyps thrived in the darkness of the inner world, planning their revenge against the Great Race of Yith. Small excursions erupted in the smaller cities of the Great Race, and the cruelty witnessed there was unspeakable. In other abandoned cities where paths to the darkness below were not properly sealed or safeguarded, the Flying Polyps wrecked havoc. Wherever these eruptions occurred the carnage was unspeakable, so much so that it marred the thoughts of the Great Race forever."

 

"About fifty million years ago, the Flying Polyps broke free from their bonds beneath Earth's crust and fell upon the [Yith] in a war of horrific revenge. Such was the horror of this attack that it drove the [Yith] en masse forward in time to occupy the bodies of the great beetle race which ruled the Earth after man's dominion fell."

[Guest Ruinus]

No, it was before Endless Waltz.

 

Here:

 

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/XXXG-00W0_Wing_Gundam_Zero

 

look under Twin Buster Rifle.

 

Even when the rifle is separated, it was able to destroy waves of enemy suits... >.>

 

Look under Power Output: 3732 kW .

3.7E6 J doesn't even make sense. A kilogram of TNT? And it weighs less than a M1A1 Abrams?

[Indolent]

Look under Power Output: 3732 kW .

3.7E6 J doesn't even make sense. A kilogram of TNT? And it weighs less than a M1A1 Abrams?

Don't ask me, its not exactly geared towards science like you would expect it to...

[Indolent]

Which was what I said in the beginning:

Also, whenever it destroyed a larger target (the space stations and asteroids) it always seems to aim at the reactor of said space station or asteroid, which causes various secondary explorions.

If he hits the shields of a Bolo, he won't be causing any secondary explosions. And hence, we go by the guns own yield, which is never shown to be very high anyways.

 

 

 

Or maybe that's because what he shot at was already the wreckage of the battleship Libra? It's not impressive breaking apart a ship if that ship was already breaking apart.

 

 

 

Probably not? I don't ever remember it leveling cities in the cartoons.

Now I understand the whole definition of secondary explosions.

 

It wasn't entirely broken apart but I see what you mean. However, it posed a danger if it kept falling towards earth though.

 

He can adjust the power behind the shots...

[Guest Ruinus]

Note that there is a Great Difference between what Chtulu was, and the Elder Things...

 

Note the Differences...

 

Post 75.

 

I linked to the Elder Things, not Cthulhu, so I have no clue what this has to do with anything I've said.

 

Meh, Psychic Powers are generally considered "Organic Only" abilities, and I have yet to read a story that has a Robot "reaching out with it's mind" or whatever, as they usually use Technology for that kind of stuff.

 

IDK, you'd have to ask them

 

But is that a hard fast rule in Cthulhu Mythos? Similar to no time travel in the Culture series, does Cthulhu have "no robots with psychics" and "no time travel machines"? Really, the fact that they are walking around in organic bodies instead of machine ones that even just hold their brains is ridiculous for someone who "knows everything".

 

They use *vulgarity*ing scrolls to hold data, they've never heard of goddam flash drives or whatever.

 

"The members of the race took over the bodies of a dormant cone shaped beings" I assume that they were searching for a Being that didn't possess a mind as they didn't want to Transfer a Whole Civilization onto the Brink of Annihilation... That would be Genocide, and no matter what Alien Morals there are I am sure that Genocide is one thing that would be frowned upon the Universe Over.

What they found with the Cones was a Body that was Long Lived, Rugged, Could manipulate the world around it, and Most importantly was Empty. From there, why fix what isn't broken?

 

Why not improve things that can be improved?

 

If they really were all knowing as the narrator says they are, you'd think they would have gone "These are nice bodies, but we can do better". Hell, people now want to do that, you'd think these guys would.

 

That is of course, if the narrator isn't talking out of his ass when he said they were all knowing.

 

"partially material and partially ethereal,

 

The Flying Polyps were extremely plastic, being able to take on any shape they desired,

and could temporarily become invisible...

 

Additionally, the Polyps could control the wind with frightening accuracy, and used the wind in military efforts often.

 

And can still be killed by energy weapons.

Shape shifters? Oh no, apparently the all knowing race can't build some sort of scanner that can detect these guys.

Apparently the all knowing race can't build thermal sensors to detect heat signatures. Simply going invisible is enough to defeat them!

Holy jesus! The polyps can direct WIND at them!

 

The rest of the quotes is just flower language. The supposed all knowing race was defeated by a race on one planet who throw wind, can go invisible and shape shift. Meh.

[Skirmisher]

Post 75.

 

I linked to the Elder Things, not Cthulhu, so I have no clue what this has to do with anything I've said.

I was under the impression that you were implying that Cthulu's Race was made of Terrestrial Matter... Whatever...

 

 

But is that a hard fast rule in Cthulhu Mythos? Similar to no time travel in the Culture series, does Cthulhu have "no robots with psychics" and "no time travel machines"? Really, the fact that they are walking around in organic bodies instead of machine ones that even just hold their brains is ridiculous for someone who "knows everything".

 

They use *vulgarity*ing scrolls to hold data, they've never heard of goddam flash drives or whatever.

Yeah, "Scrolls" that apparently lasted a few Million Years or more... They also had other things to store data, and what could be called Scrolls doesn't mean that they were actually made of parchment or papyrus, or even Paper... As well, IIRC when they collected data, by transferring their minds through time, they liked the "captured subjects" to write about their cultures in their own language.

 

 

Why not improve things that can be improved?

 

If they really were all knowing as the narrator says they are, you'd think they would have gone "These are nice bodies, but we can do better". Hell, people now want to do that, you'd think these guys would.

 

That is of course, if the narrator isn't talking out of his ass when he said they were all knowing.

Maybe they weren't as Vain as we are? They had a Body that could do what they required, and could transfer their minds into new bodies to basically live forever.

 

 

And can still be killed by energy weapons.

Shape shifters? Oh no, apparently the all knowing race can't build some sort of scanner that can detect these guys.

Apparently the all knowing race can't build thermal sensors to detect heat signatures. Simply going invisible is enough to defeat them!

Holy jesus! The polyps can direct WIND at them!

 

The rest of the quotes is just flower language. The supposed all knowing race was defeated by a race on one planet who throw wind, can go invisible and shape shift. Meh.

Note that they are also Semi-Ethereal... Who knows if they even Produce heat to be seen, or anything like that, maybe their Invisibility extends to all parts of the Electromagnetic Spectrum? You don't know, IDK, these are Eldritch Creatures from the Cthulu Mythos...

[Guest Ruinus]

Yeah, "Scrolls" that apparently lasted a few Million Years or more... They also had other things to store data, and what could be called Scrolls doesn't mean that they were actually made of parchment or papyrus, or even Paper... As well, IIRC when they collected data, by transferring their minds through time, they liked the "captured subjects" to write about their cultures in their own language.

 

A scroll is very specifically either on papyrus, parchment or paper. The wiki notes that these scrolls are kept in metal tubes, so the papers could simply last millions of years due to good preservation. Even if it was some super material like paper, the point is they are using scrolls.

 

Not computers, flash drives, hypersuperdupercomputers.

 

Scrolls.

 

Maybe they weren't as Vain as we are? They had a Body that could do what they required, and could transfer their minds into new bodies to basically live forever.

 

Yet they specifically went to go find someone with long lived bodies, so they clearly care about their biological lifespan. And instead of using their supposed omniscient knowledge to just bioengineer any race they could find, they specifically just picked the ones on Earth.

 

Note that they are also Semi-Ethereal... Who knows if they even Produce heat to be seen, or anything like that, maybe their Invisibility extends to all parts of the Electromagnetic Spectrum? You don't know, IDK, these are Eldritch Creatures from the Cthulu Mythos...

 

"These creature were partially material and partially ethereal, existing half way into a plane of existence we do not understand..."

 

They exist in a realm that can be killed by electrical weaponry. Even if half of them exist in some other plane, half of them is in this one. And of course, we don't know, so let's make stuff up?

 

Really, alot of things are said about the beasties in the Cthulhu Mythos, but rarely are things seen. So, instead of going "Well, we'll take the word of half crazies and insane worshippers with a grain of salt" people decide "Those insane worshippers and traumatized people are 100% objective non-biased observers, let's believe everything they say!"

 

The Great Race, the Yith! Waxed nigh-omniscient, beaten by dudes who shoot wind...

[Indolent]

Ruinus... I have found that the blasts from the Twin Buster Beam rifle... actually explode...

 

When it hits something bigger than the blast, like land or Libra and whatnot... it doesn't penetrate but explode. When it hits mobile suits, they disintegrate and then explode from being destroyed from the wave of energy passing on them...

[Guest starvinmj]

Hidan is underrated on CBUB

[Guest tomisntblue]

Hidan is underrated on CBUB

 

Agreed

[Guest Ruinus]

Ruinus... I have found that the blasts from the Twin Buster Beam rifle... actually explode...

 

When it hits something bigger than the blast, like land or Libra and whatnot... it doesn't penetrate but explode. When it hits mobile suits, they disintegrate and then explode from being destroyed from the wave of energy passing on them...

 

Video?

[Indolent]

Video?

Oh right.

 

 

 

Youtube is rather useless but there are several scenes where you can see the Twin Buster Rifle wiping out mobile suits, a blast from it exploding upon collision with land after missing Epyon and when it collides with Libra.

 

Also, after extensive research, I found one thing. The Vayate, a mobile suit that has a similar buster rifle as the Wing Zero's except for one thing, as the Vayate borrowed a similar concept as Wing Zero's rifle, its rifle is directly connected to it and its stronger than the original buster rifle. I assume from what it said, that the Buster Rifle and Twin Buster Rifle have its own power source and from the sounds of it, it has to recharge... and from the size of the gun, it might have its own generator as I cannot find any specifications of the friggin weapon.

 

This might be what sets it apart from the Suit's power output?

[Guest Ruinus]

Oh right.

 

 

 

Youtube is rather useless but there are several scenes where you can see the Twin Buster Rifle wiping out mobile suits, a blast from it exploding upon collision with land after missing Epyon and when it collides with Libra.

 

Yes, and Endless Waltz, which I posted a while ago, shows a better depiction of that scene, with the beam from the Buster Rifle passing through Libra.

 

I assume from what it said, that the Buster Rifle and Twin Buster Rifle have its own power source and from the sounds of it, it has to recharge... and from the size of the gun, it might have its own generator as I cannot find any specifications of the friggin weapon.

 

This might be what sets it apart from the Suit's power output?

 

They might, but this doesn't really show it's yield. As I have said, the beam always seems to punch through objects and not destroy them on it's own power (bigger targets I mean).

[Indolent]

Yes, and Endless Waltz, which I posted a while ago, shows a better depiction of that scene, with the beam from the Buster Rifle passing through Libra.

 

 

 

They might, but this doesn't really show it's yield. As I have said, the beam always seems to punch through objects and not destroy them on it's own power (bigger targets I mean).

Well, it clearly exploded upon impact with the ground during the battle with Epyon and explode upon contact with Libra which then further exploded from the primary explosion although the first explosion already seriously did major damage... I'd go with the original rather than the redone one in a later movie.

 

IDK, it exploded upon contact from what I see in my link... hell, in Endless Waltz, when Heero shoots that Bunker thrice, it explodes, doesn't even punch through it til the third shot.

[Guest ViceCityMobster86]

GTA characters get no respect.

[Guest tomisntblue]

GTA characters get no respect.

 

You constantly put them against super powered foes and argue that they win because they have guns.

[Guest MitJD]

Rand al'Thor seemingly has no respect. So does the Tenchi Muyo Cast. I mean, they lost to the Justice League!

[Guest force_echo]

I would say the Mirage Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and for very good reason. Alot of people often tend to think that the original 1987 cartoon is what started the TMNT but this is not true. The 1987 cartoon is what made the TMNT famous but the original comics came out in 1984 and they were not even kid friendly to begin with. The comics were violent, gritty, black and white, and had alot of dark stories to them. But it wasn't until the deals to do the 87 toon was what made the TMNT part of American pop culture, and sure, it was a hit with kids but when you ask most people of the TMNT, the first thing they think of are the 87 cartoons and never the comics.

 

It's because of the 87 and 2003 cartoons are what make the TMNT so wrongly under-rated, if people knew more about the original Mirage comics, then it'd be a who different story.

 

-Rakai'Thwei

IKR There was a debate whether the shredder could beat Kim Possible. I was like is this really happening?