10:9 - John Rambo vs. Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 10, ROUND 9

John Rambo

Slot: The Team's Ranged Weapon Expert
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about John Rambo at this Wiki
Official Site: David Morrell

Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)

Slot: The Team's Ranged Weapon Expert
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Entertainment

Battle Terrain
Battle Terrain: Tiny Island

[Fox]

Yes, they are gonna be stuck together on that Tiny Island until someone wins.

 

[broadwaybeyonder]

I think I went Rambo before, so I'll go Rambo again.  

[RakaiThwei]

Going with Rambo for the reasons I stated previously.

Also, can we invoke the MK11 John Rambo? If so, then this gets REAL interesting.

 

[Movie-Brat]

Again though as I demonstrated, Kate Bishop has survived tgis exact scenario and survived in Generations: Hawkeye and even two people, including a champion of previouus drafts backed me up on this. 

[Movie-Brat]

And once again, I'll state that Kate Bishop has survived tougher opponents than Rambo as Ares, the God of War. And these pages from that Generations: Hawkeye issue. 

[RakaiThwei]

And I still maintain that Rambo's skills as a special forces Green Beret would be something which would help him out in the long run. As mentioned in the previous thread, Rambo has been trained in the art of stealth, and this is something which he absolutely employs to great effect. If Rambo can't exactly out target Kate, then he could at least outplay her on a psychological level and maybe get the drop on her through means of camouflage. As far as I know, Kate Bishop doesn't exactly have any precognitive senses or danger senses, so this is something that might be able to work against her.

Also something to consider is that John Rambo is a quicker thinker as well, especially when he is cornered between a rock and a cliff fall... LITERALLY. John Rambo makes use of this by literally jumping off from a cliff and then uses the tree branches to break his fall, and then has to deal with Galt who is trying to shoot him with a long range weapon, likely a police issue rifle. Rambo, who is unarmed aside from his survival knife, grabs a rock-- throws it with surprising accuracy enough to crack the windshield and make the pilot lose control of his steer, in turning causing Art Galt fall to his death. So, Rambo can use his environment to his advantage, even quickly than what most would give him credit for. I mean I can imagine him throwing said rock at Kate with surprising speed, and if he lands it-- it's gonna hurt.

Pain tolerance? I would say that while Kate has had her share of cuts, bruises and broken bones-- as far as I know, she hasn't really done anything like Rambo when it comes to self-surgery. Especially when it involves fire and gunpowder. John Rambo has a very high tolerance for pain as he had been trained to ignore pain as part of his special forces training. Here he's suffered a wound, and to seal it-- he cauterizes it with gunpowder and fire. This is something which doctors stress does more damage than help...

And shortly after sealing that wound, he gets into a fight with Kourov, who attempts to further aggravate the wound by squeezing it. And Rambo fights on.

 

[Magnamax]

I would say that the M11 Rambo is a no-go. Guest characters in fighting games generally aren’t canon.

 

Given the island terrain, I think there is extremely limited camo opportunities for Rambo. 50 yards doesn’t give him a lot of space to work with, I’m holding my vote for now.

 

[RakaiThwei]

5 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

I would say that the M11 Rambo is a no-go. Guest characters in fighting games generally aren’t canon.

Just thought I ask to see what Fox would say.

 

[Magnamax]

2 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Just thought I ask to see what Fox would say.

 

Fair enough. I would assume it would just be his movies and novel.

[RakaiThwei]

2 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

Fair enough. I would assume it would just be his movies and novel.

There's also Rambo and the Force of Freedom cartoon!

[Movie-Brat]

11 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

Fair enough. I would assume it would just be his movies and novel.

So did I. I mean, the image is from the films so I imagine only that version. 

And also, there's still the dozens of superheroes Kate Bishop teamed up with that she would pick up tips from of course, Hawkeye and so many others like her teammates on Young Avengers. 

[Movie-Brat]

Oh and also, Kate Bishop van be just a stealthy considering her job as a private eye, able to take pictures undetected for example. 

And of course, Kate Bishop being very precise where to shoot and taking down bad guys. 

Kate Bishop can fire multiple arrows and never miss. Rambo can get jealous.

[RakaiThwei]

Something I forgot to put up. Rambo doesn't necessarily so much as need camouflage to be stealthy. In Last Blood, Rambo effectively manages to infiltrate the home of a Mexican drug cartel and sex trafficker leader. This home was protected by Cartel gunmen and guards, and Rambo, in his old age-- effectively manages to take them out and they don't even realize it until they are dead.

Also, Rambo knows how to inflict pain on a human being... He's even managed to pierce the skin and muscle with his thumb and break the collar bone of the man who kidnapped and sold his adopted daughter into a sex trafficking ring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb7YP04jOTE

[Movie-Brat]

Kate Bishop did this to a bunch of dudes at ease. She's quick without being a speedster and took out a guy bigger than her. 

[Magnamax]

To be honest, they’re on a mostly bare island that’s fifty yards apart. I don’t see stealth aiding either one that much.

[RakaiThwei]

9 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

Kate Bishop can fire multiple arrows and never miss. Rambo can get jealous.

John Rambo has been trained by Navajo hunters in the use of the bow and arrow, and is a remarkable marksman with it. I believe the book goes into further detail of his training and upbringing with the Navajo people, as he is part Native American, so he used this talent greatly in First Blood Part II, and to some extent-- Rambo, and Last Blood. Here are a few scenes.

And some of his arrows go through kevlar body armor.

 

[Movie-Brat]

But not multiple arrows at once and precise as Kate Bishop. She's been doing this as a teenager and became a pro so young.

[Movie-Brat]

3 minutes ago, Magnamax said:

To be honest, they’re on a mostly bare island that’s fifty yards apart. I don’t see stealth aiding either one that much.

Fair but I still think given her precise arrow shooting and combat skills, she could win this based on those pages I posted for proof. 

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, Movie-Brat said:

But not multiple arrows at once and precise as Kate Bishop. She's been doing this as a teenager and became a pro so young.

So has John Rambo.

He's been trained and taken in by the Navajo people since he was young because his father was too much of an abusive drunken bastard to raise him, so he found several father figures within the Navajo community. At least that's what the original book by David Morrell tells us.

[Movie-Brat]

7 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

So has John Rambo.

He's been trained and taken in by the Navajo people since he was young because his father was too much of an abusive drunken bastard to raise him, so he found several father figures within the Navajo community. At least that's what the original book by David Morrell tells us.

Even still, size and experienced dudes mean nothing to Kate given her smarts and precision. 

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, Movie-Brat said:

Even still, size and experienced dudes mean nothing to Kate given her smarts and precision. 

The same could be said for John Rambo, especially when he's fought guys like Janozs and Kourov-- guys who are MUCH bigger than him and probably have as much experience as he did, or even better equipment as seen in Rambo when he outperformed the mercs who were sent to rescue the missionary that was captured by the Tatmadaw.

[Movie-Brat]

The huge difference is, Kate Bishop doesn't have military training and yet, has managed to be very well trained and very precise. 

[RakaiThwei]

1 minute ago, Movie-Brat said:

The huge difference is, Kate Bishop doesn't have military training and yet, has managed to be very well trained and very precise. 

Rambo didn't even have military training before he was training with the bow and arrow from the Navajo Elders. That just further complimented his already pre-existing training. Here's what the Rambo Wiki says regarding his use of the weapon before military training.

"As a young man, his childhood life was rough and violent. His father was an abusive alcoholic and John spent his childhood learning from the Navajo tribal elders on the reservation about how to efficiently use the traditional Navajo weapon: the bow and arrow. He also learned how to fight. However, one night when John was older, his father tried to kill him with a knife. Rambo ran away that night, but not before shooting his father with a bow and arrow, nearly killing him. Rambo decided that the best way to get away from his problems was to leave for the Vietnam War, for which he had been drafted."

https://rambo.fandom.com/wiki/John_Rambo

So, he was trained in the bow and arrow, and taught how to fight by the Navajo Elders. I tried looking up what the Navajo peoples call their fighting style but nothing comes up aside from a martial art called Okichitaw which was developed by the Plains Cree people. Whatever the Navajo refer to their fighting system as, I don't know, but it's definitely mentioned that they taught him how to fight.

Also, Rambo is skilled in melee combat-- especially with stick weapons.

 

[Movie-Brat]

5 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

 

Also, Rambo is skilled in melee combat-- especially with stick weapons.

 

Again, as demonstrated, so has Kate. Especially in hand to hand combat. 

Plus, the girl also survived Kang the Conqueror.