Match 13238 Clark Kent (Smallville) and Justice League and Justice Society of America vs. Apocalypse and Horsemen of Apocalypse and X-Men

[comic_book_fan]

even if it did work which is a long shot because zantana is not a realilty warper scarlet witch was when she did that hulk would still be war because the torture and the tec that made him war would already be implanted and the only powers apocalypse would lose is his mollecular manipulation which is what makes him so damn hard to put down but he would still have superstrength and energey manipulation of course his strength would be decreased but he would still be very strong.

i think team 2 owns.

[comic_book_fan]

and realy any of them who have to eat are killed by sunfire the numbers advantage when you think about it the numbers game is not all that great in tje jla team's favor considering how fast any human or human like member are going to die between all the horsemen and x-men killing them.

[xLEGACYx]

even if it did work which is a long shot because zantana is not a realilty warper scarlet witch was when she did that hulk would still be war because the torture and the tec that made him war would already be implanted and the only powers apocalypse would lose is his mollecular manipulation which is what makes him so damn hard to put down but he would still have superstrength and energey manipulation of course his strength would be decreased but he would still be very strong.

i think team 2 owns.

its actually quite logical. She could simply block their x gene, if only for the fight. Then Hulk and Apocalypse could not stand up to the power the others possess.

[xLEGACYx]

to be honest, the only people that stand a chance are Colossus, Hulk, and Apocalypse for team 2. The rest are taken out rather easily even if Zatanna didnt take away their power.

 

Other than the three mentioned above, the rest can be taken out by one or two members of team 1

[comic_book_fan]

its actually quite logical. She could simply block their x gene, if only for the fight. Then Hulk and Apocalypse could not stand up to the power the others possess.

thats if she isn't killed first and hulk wouldn't be effected by blocking x genes at all and would still have his war power up thats from tec it has nothing to do with apocalypse's mutant powers.

and apocalypse would be vulnrable but it would still be verry hard to put down.

and if fate and zantana have to eat they would more likely be killed by sunfire before they ever got the chance to do anything to apocalypse.

[xLEGACYx]

thats if she isn't killed first and hulk wouldn't be effected by blocking x genes at all and would still have his war power up thats from tec it has nothing to do with apocalypse's mutant powers.

and apocalypse would be vulnrable but it would still be verry hard to put down.

and if fate and zantana have to eat they would more likely be killed by sunfire before they ever got the chance to do anything to apocalypse.

First, I know Hulk wouldnt be affected but he cant beat Smallville Clark in the first place. He moved a planet with ease. He destroyed a Darkseid avatar in a single blow.

 

Second, Apocalypse isnt powerful enough to stop the onslaught of heroes he, Hulk, and Colossus will be left to fight. All others can take out the X-Men and horsemen pretty quickly.

 

Third, Zatanna can do her thing supressing the x-gene. During this time Fate is skilled enough to rival Sorcerer Supreme Strange. So he can deal with the other minor beings like Sunfire.

 

Fourth, I know there would be losses on the JLA/JSA side but not completely annihilated like Team 2. When Zatanna supresses the x-gene only Hulk (not a mutant), Colossus (Cyrotak?), and Apocalypse (tech) will be left unaffected. The three of them cant stand against the powerhouses of Team 1.

[comic_book_fan]

going by powers hulk and apocalypse has limitless strength and i don't care how strong superman he has a limit and apocalypse can't be hurt with punches the one who has a shot is fate and thats only a maybe because we don't know how he responds to that kind of magic noone else here can hurt apocalypse even if they do he can heal himself at will psi attacks won't do a thing strength he is as strong as he wants to be without the good guy having to win apocalypse would never have lost.

[xLEGACYx]

going by powers hulk and apocalypse has limitless strength and i don't care how strong superman he has a limit and apocalypse can't be hurt with punches the one who has a shot is fate and thats only a maybe because we don't know how he responds to that kind of magic noone else here can hurt apocalypse even if they do he can heal himself at will psi attacks won't do a thing strength he is as strong as he wants to be without the good guy having to win apocalypse would never have lost.

with the magic, psi attacks, and the raw power they have more than enough to beat them.

[comic_book_fan]

see anyone who needs food is dead when sunfire flies over them that kills anyone who is not from krypton and manhunter and maybe green lanterns and with fate and zantana out of the way there is noone else can beat apocalypse hulk will easly apocalypse takes down superman with a psi attack or he might just beat him to death all of the weaker mutants will die as well.

soon it will be apocalypse magneto juggernaut and hulk against superwoman wonderwoman manhunter and the 2 gl's .

at the end of this it will come down to apocalypse vs manhunter apocalypse kills manhunter in the end because he has everypower manhunter has just to a higher level the only advantage manhunter has is speed but that won't realy help him .

[xLEGACYx]

see anyone who needs food is dead when sunfire flies over them that kills anyone who is not from krypton and manhunter and maybe green lanterns and with fate and zantana out of the way there is noone else can beat apocalypse hulk will easly apocalypse takes down superman with a psi attack or he might just beat him to death all of the weaker mutants will die as well.

soon it will be apocalypse magneto juggernaut and hulk against superwoman wonderwoman manhunter and the 2 gl's .

at the end of this it will come down to apocalypse vs manhunter apocalypse kills manhunter in the end because he has everypower manhunter has just to a higher level the only advantage manhunter has is speed but that won't realy help him .

well seeing as how Zatanna can speak before Sunfire gets the chance that wont work. Also with Fate's level of power he easily can protect them from such nonsense.

 

Seeing as how Apocalypse generally loses to the X-Men or Avengers, along with his horsemen, I dont see him winning against a superior JLA/JSA

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Superman Apocalypse

Green Arrow Gambit

Batman Storm

Bart Allen Quicksilver

Martian Manhunter Sunfire / Famine

Doctor Fate Colossus / Juggernaut

Supergirl Pestelence / Polaris

Booster Gold Havok

Black Canary Cyclops

Zatanna Storm

Powergirl Rogue

Jay Garrick Northstar

Alan Scott Magneto

Hawk Girl Archangel / Death

Wonder Woman Hulk / War

Nightwing Iceman

Huntress

Red Hood

Red Arrow

 

The DC team has a clear advantage in numbers but most of that comes from low-power characters. Apocalypse has a clear advantage with mid-tier characters and there's a fair balance in the upper tiers. Zatanna is the wild card in this because the limits of her power are so poorly defines. Theoretically, all she needs to do is say, "Niw ew" but I've never seen her powers used in such a sweeping manner. Maybe she can win single-handed but I really doubt it.

 

I think there is a good chance of Apocalypse stopping Zatanna, and I think Juggernaut can stop Dr. Fate from running interference for her. Cain Marko was able to take on Dr. Strange on a magical level because his powers are based on the magic of Cittorak. I don't see why this would not be the case for Peter.

 

And I don't think Clark is as powerful as stated. He destroyed an avatar of Darksied, but this wasn't the same Darksied we've seen in DC Comics or DCAU. If Granny Goodness and the other minions we saw in Smallville are any indication, this was a vastly less powerful version.

 

As for Clark moving a planet... Well,

is clearly meant to be Apocalypse, fire pits and all, but it's asteroid-sized. Compare it to Metropolis and you can see it's no more than a mile or two in diameter. And the fact that there's absolutely no gravitational perturbation shows that it's even less massive than it looks. It's only a few hundred feet over Metropolis and there's no visible damage from its tidal forces. Anything with a mass remotely like a planet would cause apocalyptic damage world-wide if it passed even a few thousand miles from earth.

 

Smallville Clark is strong, no doubt, but he is far from a world-shifter.

[Guest The Lord Dragon Reborn]

You've got Storm twice.

[Guest bigballerju]

Actually that was a planet Clark moved. They clearly showed it in the tv show and said it in the Season 11 comics. Also Clark Kent is as strong as stated. Clark Kent said it himself as soon as he accepted his kryptonian part of him his super strength increased which is why it shot up to moving a planet.

 

LOL don't take this seriously or be offended but that was clearly a planet Clark Kent moved. It was the same size as Earth. What series finale did you see?

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNFKXl5JIK4

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

The same episode I linked to and the same one that you tried to embed.

 

Since we have different interpretations, here's the image. I'll tell you what I see and you can tell me why I'm wrong. Fair?

 

 

 

What I see is a big spherical "planet" hovering a short distance over Metropolis. It's hanging at several times the height of the tallest buildings and was visibly getting closer in the episode. Fortunately, Clark stopped it before it could touch down. I don't know why Darksied would want to make his planet touch down on earth, but there it is.

 

The curvature of the planet is clearly seen though the earth's curvature is not, even though the two planets are nearly touching. If you superimpose Metropolis onto Apocalips it would cover a large portion of the globe. Compated to the earth, this sphere is tiny.

 

It's hard to estimate the section of Metropolis we're looking at but, for argument's sake, let's say it's 10 miles from one edge of the photo to the other. Apocolips extends a little beyond the edges picture so it's wider. I'm just estimating again, but maybe 16 miles across. That would yield a volume of 2145 cubic miles.

 

You can call that a planet if you like (and I know they did on the show) but the earth is 120,000,000 times that size.

The smallest planet in the system, Mercury, is 6,800,000 times that size.

The moon is 2,500,000 times that size.

The dwarf planet Pluto (too small to be considered a planet) is 700,000 times that size.

Ceres, the biggest asteroid, is 51,000 times that size

There are 1220 asteroids in our system larger than this "planet" and objects this size are not even naturally spherical. If this is Apocalips, I can only assume that Darksied artificially shaped it.

 

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that I'm wrong. The image is wrong; it was just a symbolic representation and Darksied's planet is at least as big as the earth. Why didn't it destroy the earth?

 

If a planet anything close to the size of earth came at all close to us, the gravitational forces would disrupt weather patterns all over the globe--not just the light winds and dark skies we saw on "Smallville." There would be super storms bigger than anything in history everywhere across the planet. The tectonic plates would shift causing colossal earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic erruptions that would ravage the surface of the earth.

 

This didn't happen on "Smallville." There are only two explanations that I can think of.

 

1) The "planet" was the much smaller than a real planet. It was the 16 mile sphere shown in the image.

 

2) The show's writers were being really lazy that day.

[comic_book_fan]

even in the comics apocalips is much smaller than earth.

i think magneto could move it has so much metal in it.

[Guest bigballerju]

1. This is Smallville a tv show and not the real world. The planet in that clip I showed you was just as big as Earth on Smallville.

 

2. Smallville and the comics version are different. So comics version doesn't even factor here nor is there any mention of bringing it up.

 

3. In the Season 11 comics and in Season 10 in the series finale Clark kent moved a planet.

 

There isn't different interpretations. Clark Kent moved a planet if you watched the actually episode, clip I showed you, and if you reading Smallville Season 11 comics currently going on.

 

Plain and Simple. It has been stated and shown. You provided a picture that only shows part of the planet. I showed you a clip that shows you the planet was the same size as Earth.

[DSkillz]

Heh, I remember the Smallville finale, too. Looking back on it, problems with size scale between Apokolips and Earth were just as big an issue in those last episodes as the lack of gravitional disruption. I seem to remember as Apokolips made its way toward Earth, it passed by Jupiter and both planets were about the same size. Apokolips then miraculously seemed to shrink the closer it came to Earth.

[xLEGACYx]

Heh, I remember the Smallville finale, too. Looking back on it, problems with size scale between Apokolips and Earth were just as big an issue in those last episodes as the lack of gravitional disruption. I seem to remember as Apokolips made its way toward Earth, it passed by Jupiter and both planets were about the same size. Apokolips then miraculously seemed to shrink the closer it came to Earth.

Ah... the magic of tv. Its all in the perception. Maybe it just looked bigger cause the camera angle was closer to Apokolips?

[DSkillz]

Nah, even at the angle shown in this picture, if Apokolips and Earth were about the same size, we'd see a curvature of the Earth similar in size to Apokolips (or smaller, depending on how close Apokolips was to Earth).

 

If Apokolips were the size of Jupiter, at this angle Earth would be even smaller than the biggest buildings shown in this version of downtown Metropolis. Even if the two planets were in collision range, the Earth would barely be 1/10 the size of that downtown area.

 

Either way, we'd definitely see the curvature of the Earth.

 

[xLEGACYx]

Yeah the picture is way off but the dvd shows it as actual planet size.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

1. This is Smallville a tv show and not the real world. The planet in that clip I showed you was just as big as Earth on Smallville.

 

Thanks for clarifying that it's a TV show.

 

If your point is that things like physics and logic don't count on Smallville, I agree. That's always been one of my hang ups with the show.

 

As for the relative sizes, I think I see what you're talking about. At the very beginning of the clip we briefly see this image...

 

 

It does look like the planets are the same size and this picture is a capture from the clip you linked. Of course, the picture I linked is also a capture from the same clip. If you watch the whole thing you'll see it big as day. I can't find a capture of the image DSkillz mentions that shows Apokolips as big as Jupiter, but from the two images I posted (and the clip they come from) it seems that the Smallville folks didn't present the size of the planet in a consistent manner.

 

2. Smallville and the comics version are different. So comics version doesn't even factor here nor is there any mention of bringing it up.

 

3. In the Season 11 comics and in Season 10 in the series finale Clark kent moved a planet.

 

For point 2: I'm not sure what point you're making. I haven't read the Smallville comic and didn't bring it up.

 

For point 3: Repeating a claim is not really the same as presenting evidence. If there's better evidence in the comics, please post it. I promise to evaluate it as fairly as I can.

 

There isn't different interpretations. Clark Kent moved a planet if you watched the actually episode, clip I showed you, and if you reading Smallville Season 11 comics currently going on.

 

You're mistaken. It's clear that we are interpreting the evidence differently. I watched the clip and explained why I thought your understanding was mistaken. I haven't read the comics, but you haven't presented any evidence from the comics.

 

Plain and Simple. It has been stated and shown. You provided a picture that only shows part of the planet. I showed you a clip that shows you the planet was the same size as Earth.

 

Well... as I've said, my picture is a capture from your clip.

 

FWIW, you have gotten me to look at all the images in the clip more critically. It seems clear to me that the Smallville folks wanted to show Clark save the day in a dramatic way but they didn't give much thought to how big they wanted Apokalips to be. They succeeded (arguably) in making something entertainment, but were so illogical and inconsistent that this fails to be convincing evidence. It proves that Clark is really strong, but fails to give any clear idea of how strong.

[Guest bigballerju]

Did you watch the episode? It clearly showed him moving a planet. Your trying to discredit it when it's clearly shown on the show Superman moved a planet. It was even stated in 2 hour episode to be a planet.

 

Your ignoring stated fact on the show. Big difference. All the evidence I need is in the actually episode where he is clearly shown to move a planet. It's directly stated in the 2 hours long episode and even in the Season 11 comics that Clark Kent moved a planet. What more evidence do I need?

 

We know enough from the show that Clark Kent can push a planet easily. It was even shown that the planet was actually just as big as Earth.

 

Here is a picture from the clip of the planet in a more full view after it's pushed away from Earth.

 

 

Here is a scan from the second issue of Smallville Season 11 comics where they mentioned it Clark Kent moving a planet out of orbit.

 

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Yes, it was a planet, but there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it was anywhere near as big as the Earth. In fact, the shot posted earlier very clearly shows that it's around the size of Metropolis, while everything else can be attributed to depth perception.

[Guest bigballerju]

No its clearly close to the size of Earth. Once again look at the scan he posted earlier. It wasn't just depth perception. What you saw was the lower bottom of the planet above Earth. We see in two full views with this shot and the one I posted it's close in size to Earth.

 

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Yes. It was.