Mythbusters: CBUB

[Guest Culwych]

True as the head could be put back on...

 

Anyway, I say Fire is better... Fire solves everything... EVERYTHING!

 

Effective?

[Skirmisher]

Effective?

Ok... and there went my willing suspension of disbelief...

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Ok... and there went my willing suspension of disbelief...

 

You still have one of those?

 

Well maybe fire would work better against someone who didnt have "adamantium"(though Ive always questioned its effectiveness) grafted on him.

If u can find someone with regen who got stopped by fire, ur arguments still in.

[C.T.]

Decapitation is one of the best ways to kill people with healing factors if you use the Muramasa blade, which negates healing factors, i believe.

[Marvel Man]

@Dr. KW- Nice. I'm currently trying to grow a mustache. Once that's done, we'll be all set.

 

@Myth- That's how Wolverine killed Sabretooth. However, he did use a special blade...

 

http://www.cybercarnage.com.au/abuttigieg/...sSabretooth.jpg

 

This is also tested by Deadpool. He's been decapitated, but survived when someone stuck his head back on. Still, hmm...

[Guest Kinetic War]

The issue where Wolverine survives the explosion that strips the flesh from his bones, only to regenerate it back in a matter of minutes, was the low point where I stopped reading X-Men comics altogether. Wolverine was my favourite as a kid because he wasn't a god-like being like Storm and Iceman, but ever since Grant Morrison and pals decided that Wolvie needs the Hulk's healing factor (and immortality), there kinda was no point anymore.

 

Decapitation is so effective because it doesn't have to compete with the regeneration power. One quick cut and it's over. However, as has been pointed out, if the head is put back into place, the regenerator might come back to life. The problem with fire is that the healing factor will slow its effect down. The big question when fighting with fire is the flammability of the combustible material, and whether or not the unnatural healing factor is effective enough to compete with the natural burning process. Seeing that regeneration works on different levels, this tactic wouldn't work on the Hulk, but someone with a moderate healing factor would be screwed. Unless they can put the fire out, that is.

 

Personally, I'd prefer both: First decapitate the poor bastard, and then burn its body and its head on separate stakes. That's not a combat altenative, however.

[Skirmisher]

What about White Phosphorous...

 

 

 

Once the phosphorus hits anything with water in it (like the soft tissue being regenerated...) it will burn, and the more water the hotter the fire... there is a reason that it is prohibited even in War, as it almost accounts to a crime against humanity to use it...

[Guest Kinetic War]

Excellent idea, Skirm. That wouldn't be overkill either, as it only involves dumping this bad boy on the regenerator, no complicated lasers or incinerators, not even a flamethrower is needed.

 

So yeah, White Phosphorus gets my vote as well. Let's see if we find something even better, though I doubt it...

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

What about White Phosphorous...

 

 

 

Once the phosphorus hits anything with water in it (like the soft tissue being regenerated...) it will burn, and the more water the hotter the fire... there is a reason that it is prohibited even in War, as it almost accounts to a crime against humanity to use it...

 

Ooh...nice one Skirm,your military knowledge comes through again. That definitely seems like thatd work on most guys with regen,so Ill allow it for consideration.(though Id give decapitation a slight edge due to the sheer pragmatism of it, over getting a plane or something to bomb the guy with the phosphorus). Though this talk of water got me thinking...How would drowning the guy fare? Keep him under till he runs out of breath,and then do what ya gotta do.That healing factors gonna do squat when it comes to getting air into his lungs.Right?

[Guest Kinetic War]

@ KevinDWolf93: Suffocation certainly seems like an efficient way of killing a regenerator, assuming that it's the 'realistic' kind we're talking about. By this I mean that his powers need oxygen and some sort of a working circulation system in order to activate (which just shows how unbelievable the whole idea of regenerators is).

 

Some writers for Wolverine clearly made him a quasi-magical being in the style of Cell from DBZ, who could return from death with no ill effects, if only the body is intact. Those of you who remember The Days of the Future Past (the original Claremont story, before the sequels and returns and stuff) will recall the scene where a Sentinel blasted Wolvie's adamantium skeleton clean of any tissue, killing Wolverine in a dramatic moment. The "I survived a nuclear explosion and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" moment sure ruined that.

 

This is getting a bit off-topic, but speaking of regenerators who can come back from a single cell: How would the last cell know it was the last one, as opposed to just another cell that is removed in the heat of the battle (blood, skin tissue, etc.)? The pre-depowered Lobo effectively showed how such a power would really work: Every drop of his blood separated from the rest grew into another Lobo. Another explanation would be sentient cells, but that would be an issue beyond conventional regeneration...

 

Skirmisher's phosphorus idea is probably the neatest reasonable way to completely annihilate a high-level regenerator, who would keep coming until there's not a single cell left of him. That, and a powerful laser beam of course.

[Guest Culwych]

Question: Is decapitation the best way to stop someone who has a healing factor?

 

Answer: No

 

Reason: If I was sending anyone to fight against Wolverine I would not send someone with a big sword, great strength or impressive fighting technique. I would send this guy

 

 

And Wolverine would end up looking like this:

 

 

That's right. Why waste time wondering if someone is going to reattach a decapitated head when you can turn them into a carrot, throw him into a rabbit pen and watch the carrot regenerate again and again after being eaten thousands of times. Ouch.

 

Best way to stop someone who has a healing factor = magic as opposed to any physical attack.

 

Note: Turning into a carrot is only one idea. Turning just the brain into a carrot may be fun. Stealing his soul, trapping him in a time status, changing his genes, flipping him inside out, separating every molecule, sending him to hell, to the sun, to another universe... god there are so many things better than decapitation. Magic for the win.

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Question: Is decapitation the best way to stop someone who has a healing factor?

 

Answer: No

 

Reason: If I was sending anyone to fight against Wolverine I would not send someone with a big sword, great strength or impressive fighting technique. I would send this guy

 

 

And Wolverine would end up looking like this:

 

 

That's right. Why waste time wondering if someone is going to reattach a decapitated head when you can turn them into a carrot, throw him into a rabbit pen and watch the carrot regenerate again and again after being eaten thousands of times. Ouch.

 

Best way to stop someone who has a healing factor = magic as opposed to any physical attack.

 

Note: Turning into a carrot is only one idea. Turning just the brain into a carrot may be fun. Stealing his soul, trapping him in a time status, changing his genes, flipping him inside out, separating every molecule, sending him to hell, to the sun, to another universe... god there are so many things better than decapitation. Magic for the win.

 

Hmm, intresting idea,but a few issues.

The stipulations I put for this were:

 

no overkill and the method must be pragmatic in a combat scenario.

 

Skirms phosphorus idea is possible to get (albeit illegal), and given the circumstances just enough to do the job. Not too many sorcerers who can transmutate or warp someone with the effectivness u mentioned that I know of( not without the possibility of said sorcerer getting evicirated or ventilated anyways)...and as much as Id like to see wolvie a carrot thats a bit much.

 

PS:Kinetic I cant find good scan yet, but found an issue(wolverine vol 2 issue 20, I think) where tigershark trapped him underwater and logan was succumbing to the effects. Though may have been be before PIS upgrade so still meh on drownings effectiveness.

[Guest Zreth]

What about White Phosphorous...

 

 

 

Once the phosphorus hits anything with water in it (like the soft tissue being regenerated...) it will burn, and the more water the hotter the fire... there is a reason that it is prohibited even in War, as it almost accounts to a crime against humanity to use it...

Actually in a D.Grayman manga a level 2 Akuma had this ability but instead it would shoot these massive sphere of which when made contact with something it will blow up and takes all the water it has with it. So this guy Krory arystar who has somewhat vampire like powers from innocence and also has regen. So while he is fighting the Akuma Eliade she blows him up with a swarm of bubbles of which he is compeletly engulfed by but his body now blown to shreds an withering away bites her sucks her blood get's a power boost and instantly gets a massive power boost regenerates his whole body except for his arm which grows back in a few minutes. But the whole point is he didn't die.

[Guest Kinetic War]

@ Zreth: Interesting. Haven't read that manga, but from what you wrote, I'd gather that against such a high-level regenerator, nothing short of a sun toss will help.

 

@ Culwych: Nice out-of-the-box thinking. I assumed we were talking about general combat, and it didn't even occur to me to use sorcery.

 

So far, Kevin's suffocation technique is the most practical one, whereas Skirmisher's phosphorus idea is the most effective. Fire is good as well, especially if combined with other factors.

 

What about physical crushing? I'm thinking in the lines of how Sarah Connor uses the hydraulic press to destroy the Terminator in the first movie. Now, imagine dropping a huge rock, or something else that's too heavy for the regenerator to lift, on him. If the pressure of the object on the surface (which we will assume is concrete or a similar substance, hard enough to not give in to the impact too much) is enough to counter the effect of the regen, the regenerator cannot come back. Since the regen power usually attempts to keep the subject's form the same, the pressure applied by the weight of the object will keep it from doing just that. It will stay flat beneath the heavy object. If the object is heavy enough, he will be killed, but either way, he will stay where he is, unless he has some other powers as well.

 

On a related side note, to discuss the point: One thing that bothered me about the Road Runner show when I was a kid: I knew that Wiley E. Coyote couldn't be killed by being crushed under a rock, but how did he come out to wreak havoc on himself again, when he's trapped under the giant rock? Of course, that was the cosmic 'toon force' effect I didn't know about then. I am still wondering how Marvel's Mr. Immortal would handle such a situation...

 

However, if it's the immortal regenerator kind we're talking about, the regenerator will only be trapped, not killed. Once the hydraulic press or big rock is lifted, he will regenerate back to normal.

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

@ Zreth: Interesting. Haven't read that manga, but from what you wrote, I'd gather that against such a high-level regenerator, nothing short of a sun toss will help.

 

@ Culwych: Nice out-of-the-box thinking. I assumed we were talking about general combat, and it didn't even occur to me to use sorcery.

 

So far, Kevin's suffocation technique is the most practical one, whereas Skirmisher's phosphorus idea is the most effective. Fire is good as well, especially if combined with other factors.

 

What about physical crushing? I'm thinking in the lines of how Sarah Connor uses the hydraulic press to destroy the Terminator in the first movie. Now, imagine dropping a huge rock, or something else that's too heavy for the regenerator to lift, on him. If the pressure of the object on the surface (which we will assume is concrete or a similar substance, hard enough to not give in to the impact too much) is enough to counter the effect of the regen, the regenerator cannot come back. Since the regen power usually attempts to keep the subject's form the same, the pressure applied by the weight of the object will keep it from doing just that. It will stay flat beneath the heavy object. If the object is heavy enough, he will be killed, but either way, he will stay where he is, unless he has some other powers as well.

 

On a related side note, to discuss the point: One thing that bothered me about the Road Runner show when I was a kid: I knew that Wiley E. Coyote couldn't be killed by being crushed under a rock, but how did he come out to wreak havoc on himself again, when he's trapped under the giant rock? Of course, that was the cosmic 'toon force' effect I didn't know about then. I am still wondering how Marvel's Mr. Immortal would handle such a situation...

 

However, if it's the immortal regenerator kind we're talking about, the regenerator will only be trapped, not killed. Once the hydraulic press or big rock is lifted, he will regenerate back to normal.

In that order:

 

*Wouldnt know bout d-gray man, but the idea of w.p is its continuous

 

*Magic would work,but we were talking bout general combat so...

*Agreed,though decaps still in this.

 

*Crushing sounds good,but only issued be the actual dropping something that big on em part...still the myth is stop, and that definitelyll stop most people with regen

 

*My first cartoon I ritually watched was animaniacs so I figured it was by contract/design theyre incvincible.

 

*Again the myth is stop,doesnt have to be kill(though thatd be preferred result), immortality under boulder...fate worse than death.

[Guest Kinetic War]

It's starting to look to me like this myth is at least partially solid, because decapitation is so darn quick and easy. Anybody could do it, all you really need is a sharp blade.

 

Fire? Need a flamethrower, or at least some gasoline and a match. White Phosphorus? Need to get the stuff first. Sorcery? Need years and years of magic education and experience to get to that level (assuming magic is a viable option in the first place, which really depends on the universe). Suffocation? Good, but pretty slow. Crushing? Need something heavy to squash him under.

 

Still thinking...

[Marvel Man]

Hold on...

 

How would you decapitate Wolverine?

 

His neck (and entire body) is covered with adamantium, an indestructable metal. However, all the other methods seem to work...

[Guest Zreth]

Hold on...

 

How would you decapitate Wolverine?

 

His neck (and entire body) is covered with adamantium, an indestructable metal. However, all the other methods seem to work...

Yes that's what confuses me about Wolverine but anyways what connects his body is not metal it's flesh people should be able to kill you by tearing his bones off. So the bones didn't really do that much.

[Skirmisher]

Yes that's what confuses me about Wolverine but anyways what connects his body is not metal it's flesh people should be able to kill you by tearing his bones off. So the bones didn't really do that much.

The bones do, do alot. They stop bullets and things that should pulverize regular bones, and stop things from generally cutting through an arm or a leg or even the neck. And as long as the limb is still attached the regen will take over and fix it, that's what the bones are for.

 

The thing is though that Indestructible bones would not protect against being pulled apart, or having a Sword cut clean through a limb at the joint (Note that the Neck has alot of small joints that makes this easy) where the connective tissues are not protected by indestructible metal. So things like this could easily happen:

 

 

 

But the thing is that the Regen would take over and keep him alive for as long as he needed to crawl his top half over to his bottom half and push the two back together...

[Guest Zreth]

The bones do, do alot. They stop bullets and things that should pulverize regular bones, and stop things from generally cutting through an arm or a leg or even the neck. And as long as the limb is still attached the regen will take over and fix it, that's what the bones are for.

 

The thing is though that Indestructible bones would not protect against being pulled apart, or having a Sword cut clean through a limb at the joint (Note that the Neck has alot of small joints that makes this easy) where the connective tissues are not protected by indestructible metal. So things like this could easily happen:

 

 

 

But the thing is that the Regen would take over and keep him alive for as long as he needed to crawl his top half over to his bottom half and push the two back together...

That's what I was trying to say but you said it better. anyways Krory beats all these guys with inferior regen in the ass.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

Umm...Skrimsiher, that's Ultimate Wolverine, and therefore cannot be associated with the full extent 616 Wolverine's powers. He can to a certain extent however, as they are just alternate versions of the same guy, but a striking difference is the fact that 616 Wolverine can't be ripped apart.

 

 

Wolverine's Adamantium has bonded to him at a molecular level, meaning some of it seeped into the tissues that connect his bones together. Heck, even Hulk (616) tried to do this and failed (The link to that particular scan is broken...but I shall look for it)!

[Guest Kinetic War]

Wolverine is probably the #1 candidate for "most recognized regenerator", but as a general rule, decapitation works best. After all, not all regenerators have adamantium skeleton.

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Wolverine is probably the #1 candidate for "most recognized regenerator", but as a general rule, decapitation works best. After all, not all regenerators have adamantium skeleton.

 

So we have:

 

Plausible.

 

There are other ways to make sure he doesnt come back, some more effective at destroying the body(phosphorus), and some that could be easier given circumstances(crushing/drowning) but most range from exotic-complicated at best, and the simplicity/versatility of decapitation makes it the most viable.

Though if u have cash, and dont mind breaking some laws, go drop some WP on ur annoying regenerator.

[Guest Zreth]

So we have:

 

Plausible.

 

There are other ways to make sure he doesnt come back, some more effective at destroying the body(phosphorus), and some that could be easier given circumstances(crushing/drowning) but most range from exotic-complicated at best, and the simplicity/versatility of decapitation makes it the most viable.

Though if u have cash, and dont mind breaking some laws, go drop some WP on ur annoying regenerator.

How about getting some giant effin moster to eat them.

[Skirmisher]

How about getting some giant effin moster to eat them.

Then there is one of two ways that they can escape...