Mythbusters: CBUB

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Heh, I said popular heroes. hee hee.

 

They havent brought bruce back yet.

Can we get to one thay can be debated with scans on.

[C.T.]

Heh, I said popular heroes. hee hee.

 

 

Hmm...

 

Ant-Man?

 

Black Bolt?

 

Black Goliath?

 

Corsair?

 

Miss America?

 

Night Thrasher?

 

Wasp?

 

Captain Marvell?

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Hmm...

 

Ant-Man?

 

Black Bolt?

 

Black Goliath?

 

Corsair?

 

Miss America?

 

Night Thrasher?

 

Wasp?

 

Captain Marvell?

To be fair,u should probably be specific which,least half have had more than user(.....mostly Pym.....weird)

[treacherous]

I'm really referring to brand name characters. The characters that get movies. The ones that get their own cartoons. The characters that your parents would recognize. I really don't think Night Thrasher would fall into that category. Night Thrasher should stay dead for comics sake.

[C.T.]

I'm really referring to brand name characters. The characters that get movies. The ones that get their own cartoons. The characters that your parents would recognize. I really don't think Night Thrasher would fall into that category. Night Thrasher should stay dead for comics sake.

 

 

I got nothing...

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Captain AMERICA!!!

 

Uhh,arent they bringing rogers back?

[C.T.]

Uhh,arent they bringing rogers back?

 

 

I know...I just realized that and edited it...

[Marvel Man]

You are all allowed to continue busting Treacherous's myth (not that I could stop you). However, here's the official myth, sent to me by a certain CBUB member.

 

Nothing can kill Doomsday the same way twice.

 

 

Is this myth solid fact? Or is it just hyperbole?!

You decide!

[treacherous]

He can be killed the same way twice or even 30 times until his body adapts to defend against the attack. This was shown in his first appearance, when they kept throwing his baby butt into the wild to get eaten by a bunch of crazy wild creatures.

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

He can be killed the same way twice or even 30 times until his body adapts to defend against the attack. This was shown in his first appearance, when they kept throwing his baby butt into the wild to get eaten by a bunch of crazy wild creatures.

 

Seconded, even then I think defense only protects up to degree of what killed him(getting beaten,by guy using at 80% power,then gets immunity then killed by same person using 90% power ,etc.

[Skirmisher]

Just a suggestion for a later analysis: Various theories on the Star Wars Turbo Laser...

 

Theory One: It (as it's description explains) is is just an upscaled Blaster. It fires it's bolts and they travel to their target, then impact on the target with explosive results.

 

Theory Two: The Bolts Ramp Up on a confined phantom death ray and the coloured part is just a tracer of some sort doing no actual damage.

 

Or is there a Third Theory... anyone have suggestions?

[Guest Kinetic War]

He can be killed the same way twice or even 30 times until his body adapts to defend against the attack. This was shown in his first appearance, when they kept throwing his baby butt into the wild to get eaten by a bunch of crazy wild creatures.

 

His first appearance? Didn't they keep Doomsday's origin a secret all through the first storyline? As far as I remember, they had several issues with the last page showing his fist pounding on the wall repeatedly, with the text "Doomsday is coming" as a build-up, and then had it explode in the reader's face with the multiple issue slugfest that was Death of Superman. It was not until the Hunter/Prey storyline that they finally told the readers what the creature was. Nit-picking, I know.

 

This may be such as well, but the baby they threw into the harsh environment of Krypton wasn't Doomsday. It was quite an ordinary baby with no special abilities, and the remnants of its body was harvested and cloned to use again. Quite some time and quite a few deaths were required before the umptheenth clone of the baby acquired immortality as a result, and it was only then that Bertron, his creator, deemed him the Ultimate (a.k.a Doomsday). It was this genetically perfected version that no longer needed the complicated cloning operation to come back. So, technically, the one and only Doomsday has been immortal from birth.

 

No, of course it's not logical (Lamarckism was not a credible theory even before Darwin came along), but this is comics. Let's suspend the disbelief again, yes?

 

Ah, now that it's out of my system, let's look at the myth.

 

We never fully get to know just how Doomsday's special immunity system works, but it's apparently thousands of years of evolution compressed into one package. There's been hinting of a continuous process of evolution in the beast (kind of like Marvel's Impossible Man, but understandably toned down), but he's still not invulnerable. As the fight with Supes proved, he can be killed with sheer physical force. But what is he immune to after he dies from that? Superman? No amount of comic book logic would be enough to justify that. His level of strength? Hardly, as characters around the same strength level as Supes (Martian Manhunter and Darkseid) are treated like garbage by the creature. It's not plausible that Doomsday will develop immunity to physical damage in itself. Once again, this is comics, but really! Full immunity to kinetic energy? Even the worst writers at DC wouldn't try to feed us that, right? Right?

 

On the other hand, the energy attack of the Radiant made Doomsday totally invulnerable to most forms of pure energy. I'd like to think it's only to the Radiant's wavelength, but then again, I don't write the comics.

 

The inconsistencies surrounding the character have led me to form my own theory of Doomsday's immunity system.

 

[RANT ALERT] Doomsday's body adapts only to the specific cause of death. For instance, let's assume that the final blow Superman landed on him shattered his nasal bone and sent a piece into his brain, causing lethal brain damage. While in the state of death, his body repairs itself by first removing the bone piece and healing the brain, and then reconstructing the skull in such a way that the nose cannot break, or if it does, it will not cause damage to the brain. He can, however, be killed if a piece of his skull other than his nose bone penetrates his brain. Though not canon, the Justice League animated series captures this idea nicely: An alternate universe version of Superman uses his heat vision to lobotomize Doomsday, who resurrects himself with a bone plate in his head that makes the same attempt useless. In essence, Doomsday's body is the embodiment of evolutionary adaptation, working like a learning computer to eliminate his weaknesses and maximize his strengths, so maybe one day all the ways to damage his brain have been tried. The reason I like this theory is that it's the most plausible (in a world of superheroes, that is). Evolution doesn't prepare a species for possible injuries in the future, so Doomsday's body can't make itself immune to all injuries, only the kind he has already received. This is probably the reason he seems to have lost his reproductive organs: his genes can now fully adapt to anything, even death, eliminating the need for children of his own.

[/RANT ALERT]

 

All in all, I'd say the myth in itself is solid - Doomsday's body always learns something from its death - but the interpretations of it are hyperbole. He can't adapt to everything an opponent has with only one death. Besides, the time it takes for Doomsday to heal and adapt is directly proportional to the amount of damage taken, so if he's hit with an attack powerful enough to destroy his body, he will require hundreds, maybe thousands of years to fully recover. The Hulk can defeat Doomsday for a period that is relevant to the fight. Doomsday will come back - he always does* - but by then, the fight will be long over.

 

*There are some exceptions, but they require special circumstances that I won't bother getting into now.

[treacherous]

I stand corrected or in Laymen's terms: I gotz owned.

[Guest Kinetic War]

I'm back, providing the needed scans and the remaining arguments I have to lay forward. Come to think of it, if I ever put as much effort into my studies as I put in carefully elaborating and defending my views on all things in comics, I'd gotten my degree by now. Oh, well.

 

The comics are pretty vague about Doomsday's immunity, so my speculations might just as well be wrong as they may be right. But there are a few things to point out regarding the matter:

 

Doomsday evolves constantly, giving him some form of immunity to attacks in mid-combat. Proof here. So, what is the point of him dying to gain immunity, if he can gain it during combat?

 

This just might be the deciding factor in the question of Doomsday's immune system and how it works. He can adapt to attacks during combat, but when he dies of something, be it a degree of heat, a certain amount of brute force etc., he seems to gain utter, complete and total immunity to said phenomena. This is where I throw my hands in the air in sheer awe over comic book logic, but that's what I've got out of the Doomsday stories I've read. It is repeated over and over.

 

Doomsday is killed by the creature Radiant, and consequently, he seems to become immune to all kinds of energy. This includes the combined forces of Superman's heat vision, Guy Gardner's ring beam, Fire's flame, Bloodwynd's weird necromancer energy, and Booster Gold's power, all at once. Needless to say, Doomsday walks out of this relatively unharmed. Of course we don't know if this is all due to the one attack by the Radiant, or if Doomsday's body has adapted to extreme heat and other types of injuries earlier still.

 

Yet he seems to have surpassed Superman's strength level as they meet in Hunter/Prey. He disposes of Darkseid, or probably another one of his avatars, with not much of a problem (seems the image refuses to upload, so you'll have to trust me on this one), and Superman needs a special suit powered by the Mother Box thingy (just bear with me here, OK?) to get the needed power to engage the creature in combat. Once again, the true nature of Doomsday's immunity is not revealed, and we're left speculating whether or not this is a result of his death in the hands of Superman, or if he's gradually grown stronger.

 

Oh, and if someone is still interested in the exceptions I mentioned earlier, Doomsday cannot come back from the end of time, since there's nowhere to come back to. And galactic forces - such as Galactus - could easily transform Doomsday into something that can no longer return. I doubt Doomsday's healing factor will work if he's turned into another substance entirely.

 

After all this, I'm left with the same conclusion as before: Myth confirmed. Doomsday does indeed gain immunity through dying, but the exact nature of this immunity remains to be seen.

[Marvel Man]

 

I quote the ancient words of a wise man

 

I gotz owned.

 

Bravo Kinetic War, bravo.

[Guest KevinDWolf93]

Ok lets try this for a myth:

 

The better known character always wins.

 

A prime example

 

 

Now this will be in the following categories:

general,

cbub

polls

other site forums.

Canon stories

crossover stories

anything else you can think of

 

You be the judge!

[Marvel Man]

@ Kevin: Hold up.

 

That's a pretty good myth, but I've been gathering info on the Doomsday debate. Let me just post that real quick...

 

@ Kinetic War:

 

I have always used the following reason whenever I see myself in a Doomsday vs thread. I want to know what you (and others) think.

 

 

His name is Imperiex and he is DC's equivilant to Marvel's Galactus. In "Our Worlds at War", when Imperiex threatened the Universe, the Earth brought out the big guns in an effort to bring him down.

 

*insert big guns*

 

 

Yes. Doomsday was freed from his Moon-Prison, pointed in the direction of Imperiex, and allowed to do what he naturally does. Sadly, Doomsday was a walking plot device for "The Death of Superman", and was no match against Imperiex, the walking plot device for "Our Worlds at War".

 

To make a long DC story short, Doomsday was incinerated by Imperiex in a cascade of cosmic fire.

 

*I can't find an image. I'll insert it here later*

 

Not only did Doomsday not come back through evolution, but it also proved that Doomsday has a limit. While I agree with everything you've stated, I must also remind you that only Hunter/Prey Doomsday was able to evolve on the go, evading the death stage. Still, that's partly my fault for not specifying....

[treacherous]

Bravo Kinetic War, bravo.

 

 

It happens. Just usually it's by Ivan.

[Guest Kinetic War]

@Marvel Man:

 

Dang, haven't read the more recent comics where he appears. Now that I think about it, in Hunter/Prey, when the Calatonians had the Radiant kill Doomsday, there was something about "Had they destroyed his body, that might have been the end of Doomsday" or something along those lines. Instead, they followed their ancient burial rituals and launched his corpse into space in a vessel that eventually landed on Earth. Thanks a lot, Calatonians.

 

As said, I haven't read Our Worlds at War, and the comic supply where I live right now is kind of limited. Guess I'll have to download a torr... err... borrow the book from a friend. But I'll make some quick speculations based on what you said.

 

Did they say that Doomsday was definitely finished, or were they just making wild guesses? As I mentioned in my first post on the subject, if Doomsday's body is damaged enough, he will come back, but it will take much longer. Could it be that Imperiex did use a force powerful enough to keep him down for several hundreds of years, had he been left to heal naturally? Come to think of it, I've never seen Doomsday use an actual combat revive, like the ignorant DC fans at CBUB like to think he does all the time. If he's killed, he's killed. Sure he'll come back, but it will take time.

 

If I'm going to get all lawyer-y, the myth is confirmed regardless of his limits. The exact phrasing was: Nothing can kill Doomsday the same way twice. So, if he's killed beyond repair, he can't be killed again at all, right?

 

I'm going to go look into the Imperiex matter now, and I'll come back with a definite answer later. If I find it, that is.

 

Side note: As long as we're talking about characters with names ending in -x, guess who's reached the 50 years milestone today? Asterix! Long live European comics with their puns, caricatures and slapstick!

[Marvel Man]

I myself haven't read all of "Our Worlds at War", in fact, I first learned about this incident while reading "The Ultimate Guide to the Man of Steel".

 

 

It went on to say that he was eventually brought back to life through science. His memory was intact, so maybe he would've evolved back eventually...

[Guest Kinetic War]

@ Marvel Man:

 

Figured as much. I couldn't get a hold of the book, but I suppose from all the sources on the internet that as with everything that has to do with Doomsday, we're left forming our own theories again.

 

However, there are two points I'd like to take up before I vote for laying this problem to rest at last.

 

1) It is entirely plausible that Imperiex killed Doomsday permanently in Our Worlds at War. Imperiex is described as the embodiment of entropy, a phenomenon that is tied to thermodynamics. To make a long story short, scientists such as Schrödinger and Lovelock describe the requisite of life as we know it being the reduction of entropy, as entropy in its full form would make the existence of life impossible. Hitting Doomsday (who is a living being last time I checked) with a burst of abstract energy that is poison to life itself would likely take away everything that could possibly bring him back. Entropy is what will ultimately kill him at the end of time, if he lives that long. But, since Doomsday's immunity mechanics are still a mystery, and no writer has yet dared to take on the challenge of actually explaining anything, the question remains unanswered. Frustrating, isn't it? Which brings me to point 2...

 

2) I got thinking about the exact phrasing of the myth. Yes, Doomsday could be killed the same way twice, if the force is increased. If Superman can kill Doomsday with brute force while in his normal state, then yes, going sun-dipping will grant him enough power to kill Doomsday by doing the exact same thing as before, but with even more brute force. But here I'm assuming that Doomsday's body doesn't make any physical changes that would render the same form of attack useless (as seems to be the case with the Radiant's energy attack). For instance, he doesn't develop a jaw bone that will deflect the attack instead of absorbing the impact. Or would he?

 

So, is the myth busted or not? While I could start looking for loopholes, I'll much rather present a multiple choice that is open to interpretations, and people can pick the one that seems more reasonable. As I see it right now, there are two possible ways to see this myth, and both of them require some amount of speculation. The case of the Radiant makes me lean towards confirmed, while the phrasing of the myth makes me want to vote for busted.

 

Confirmed: Doomsday can't be killed by the exact same thing that killed him before. Over death, he will develop the resilience and physical change to make the same attempt at his life useless. (NOTE: It is assumed that Doomsday's body develops some kind of a physical barrier that negates the attack instead of simply growing stronger)

 

Busted: Doomsday can be killed the same way twice by increasing the power of the attack. By shooting him with a handgun will make him develop an immunity to that level of power, but shooting him with a sniper rifle on the exact same spot would kill him again, since the momentum of the sniper bullet is much greater. (NOTE: It is assumed that Doomsday's body only adapts to the strength of the attack, not the form)

 

Did anybody get the idea? If not, I'll try to explain it again later. I'm getting a bit tired right now.

[Marvel Man]

I get it. I think you've really gotten this thing down, and I agree that there's a lot of speculation going on in order to get to a conclusion.

 

Still, I'm leaning towards the second choice. For example, why doesn't Doomsday just evolve a kryptonite medallion? Oh well... A lot of speculation going on...

[Guest Kinetic War]

For example, why doesn't Doomsday just evolve a kryptonite medallion?

 

The little evolutionary biologist in me screamed in terror upon reading those words, since evolving a radiating mineral in a biological body would be against all reason and common sense. Then again, using common sense in this case would be the intellectual equivalent of replacing one's brain with Jell-O.

 

I still think the myth in itself is confirmed, but I guess it depends on how you look at it. I might have taken a far too speculative approach. Since the writers have either intentionally or unintentionally avoided explaining the Doomsday mechanics, it's reasonable to assume that they're going with the easy choice: Doomsday just magically gains immunity to some forms of attack, but not to others. He has been killed through brute force several times, but is it enough to call the myth busted?

 

I would prefer getting a few other opinions on this before making the call. So, what do you others think? Busted or confirmed?

 

Or should we take the easy way out and make it plausible? Since we haven't really seen anything that would make up our minds for sure, we could sort of skip it and wait for a new story that might sway us to the one side or the other. I know, laaaa-zyyyy...

[Marvel Man]

Agreed.

 

This myth will be up, running in the background, and everyone's welcomed to take a crack at it. Still, we'll move on to something else.

 

What that else is, I don't know yet...

[Guest Zreth]

How about the one that KevinDWolf93 put up?