Why do DBZ themed threads never die?

[Guest Ruinus]

Dragonball GT is not canon with the main DBZ which is the manga.

 

Again, simply because it wasn't a manga it's non-canon? Says who?

Why can't the manga have a natural extension?

 

They have never gone back to GT since then and Kai is only redoing Dragonball Z. Like I said before Dragonball Z Kai was redone and they took out all the non-canon stuff that was in the anime before wasn't in the manga.

 

So they made it more faithful to the manga, this has what to do with GT?

 

Dragonball GT is a sequel to the anime but in the main DBZ which is the manga GT never happened.

 

And why can't the manga have a canon sequel that is only found in the medium of animation?

 

Plus GT had such horrible writing and more that it wasn't even funny. I think Goku as a kid again came off more powerful then SS4 at the end of the entire GT. What about Goku Jr. or Vegeta Jr? God please lets discuss something else rather then GT.

 

That's your opinion. I could easily say that the manga is a failed adaptation of Journey to the West and is therefore a hack story. Or that lines such as "the balls are inert" or "KAKAROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!" are terrible writing. The only humor I found in the two original series was the driving test episode. I guess Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are non-canon too?

 

Again, I want to see some actual official statement that GT is non-canon. There is no reason why a series that started as a manga can't have canon extensions in other mediums. Star Wars started as movies, so I guess the books, comics and games are non-canon? Batman started as a comic, so the animated shows and movies don't count?

[Guest bigballerju]

George Lucas has stated that his movies are not canon to the extended Universe that continues after Return of Jedi. Umm are Batman tv shows and movies canon to the DC Universe in the comics? No they aren't.

 

Now I don't think it needs to be explained why the anime and manga aren't canon as that should be obvious to anyone who has read the manga. When things are adapted from something they are not canon or part of the actually source there from. Example is the Wanted movie and Wanted comic. Prove is Kick-ass the movie and comic. Thats what I am saying. The anime was a adaption of the manga but the anime has its own canon. Yes in the anime GT is canon to the Dragonball Z anime but its not canon with the manga.

[Marvel Man]

George Lucas has stated that his movies are not canon to the extended Universe that continues after Return of Jedi. Umm are Batman tv shows and movies canon to the DC Universe in the comics? No they aren't.

 

Now I don't think it needs to be explained why the anime and manga aren't canon as that should be obvious to anyone who has read the manga. When things are adapted from something they are not canon or part of the actually source there from. Example is the Wanted movie and Wanted comic. Prove is Kick-ass the movie and comic. Thats what I am saying. The anime was a adaption of the manga but the anime has its own canon. Yes in the anime GT is canon to the Dragonball Z anime but its not canon with the manga.

*Nods*

 

Nuff said.

[Landon]

Another reason to hate Dragonball fans: their irrational aversion to DBGT. It's one thing to not like the series. It's another when the fans desperately try to disown it and claim it isn't "canon" when there's no real evidence to prove it one way or the other. GT exists. It's irrelevant whether it's cannon or not. Trying to prove it is or isn't just fuels people's loathing.

[Guest Ivan]

I'm still convulsing over the claim that "DBZ was one of the most important anime, if not THE most important anime EVER." I want to rant about Tezuka, and Miyazaki, (and Gundam, but that's kind of a personal preference thing.) However, Landon is the FPL's resident anime expert, so I'll just suggest that you all go read his blog and watch the shows he suggests, and if in a year you still like DBZ then you'll at least understand it within context, and you'll totally get why the average DBZ fan is despised.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

If you're watching for the drawings I have bad news for you.....

 

 

compared to the cartoons I mentioned? or to what?

[Guest Mr. Outstanding]

I'm still convulsing over the claim that "DBZ was one of the most important anime, if not THE most important anime EVER." I want to rant about Tezuka, and Miyazaki, (and Gundam, but that's kind of a personal preference thing.) However, Landon is the FPL's resident anime expert, so I'll just suggest that you all go read his blog and watch the shows he suggests, and if in a year you still like DBZ then you'll at least understand it within context, and you'll totally get why the average DBZ fan is despised.

 

 

Who said that "DBZ was one of the most important anime, if not THE most important anime EVER"?

 

That fool. Let's get him! I think he went that way!

 

*Lights torch along with the others, but quickly snuffs it out as the others roar by. Slowly and inconspicuously sinks back into the shadows.

[Guest Nilan]

Since I was quoted in the opening post, let me make my position clear. What I was trying to say there (among many other things) was that I understand neither the sheer adulation that is showered on such a crappy show nor the reverence with which the show's one-dimensional characters are spoken about in the CBUB.

 

I think the points that have to be made have already been made.

 

I will also add that despite being even more dimwitted and predictable than Dragon Ball Z, I immensely enjoy Bleach thanks to its colorful supporting cast and original soundtrack. So it isn't an "I hate action-packed anime" deal with me.

[Guest Ruinus]

Now I don't think it needs to be explained why the anime and manga aren't canon as that should be obvious to anyone who has read the manga.

 

It isn't obvious. I'm also still failing to see any official statements on this matter. Simply people saying over and over "it's not canon!"

 

The anime was a adaption of the manga but the anime has its own canon. Yes in the anime GT is canon to the Dragonball Z anime but its not canon with the manga.

 

Nice. Another set of rules about canon in DB that I"m sure I'll see evidence of in the future. This can't possibly be another unsourced statement.

[Guest bigballerju]

How come nobody has mentioned Ghost in the Shell?

 

Thats a awesome movie.

 

Edit: Its not hard to understand why the anime and manga are not canon with each other. Just actually read the manga and watch the anime. Then you will see why. If you don't get it then I can't tell you anything else because after that it should be obvious why. Was Justice Unlimited canon to the Justice league in the DC Comics? No it wasn't so why is it hard for people to get the anime and manga are not canon with each other.

[Guest Djgambrell]

Toriyama was watching over the making of dragonball, dragonball z, and i believe gt as well so why shouldn't it be considered canon?

[Guest bigballerju]

GT is canon with the Dragonball Z anime and was a sequel to it. GT is not canon with the manga as the manga actually ends before GT after the Buu Saga.

[Guest Djgambrell]

GT is canon with the Dragonball Z anime and was a sequel to it. GT is not canon with the manga as the manga actually ends before GT after the Buu Saga.

But toriyama still watched over it.

[Guest Ruinus]

Again, I want to see some official statements or statements from Toriyama himself. I'm not buying any of these arguments. I am convinced some dude somewhere just sat through GT, thought "OMG they changed it now it sucks" and went to a comp and said "Don't worry guys, GT isn't canon anyways so it's fine lol" and everyone bought it.

 

Also, the DC universe specifically has alternate realities in it doesn't it? What does it matter anyway, it has nothing to do with DB.

 

Even worse is that you claim that there are two canon continuities, the manga and the cartoon ones.

[Guest bigballerju]

Toriyama shouldn't have too. His manga ended while in the anime version they continued past where Toriyama ended Dragonball Z.

 

Let me put it to you like this because I do understand what your saying. If the anime was a direct adaption of the manga then yes it would be canon with the manga. But it wasn't as the Dragonball Z anime had many things that weren't in the Manga and plus you had GT. Thats why its not canon because the things they added to the Dragonball Z anime and GT made it vastly different from the Manga. In order to be canon the things they added or changed would have had to be in the Manga.

[Guest Djgambrell]

I guess i understand but it seems unfair with dbz's shortness while marvel and dc characters are still going... oh well

[Guest Ruinus]

Toriyama shouldn't have too. His manga ended while in the anime version they continued past where Toriyama ended Dragonball Z.

 

So basically, you are taking his silence on the matter to mean "People can make up whatever canon rules they want"? His manga ended, but then he oversaw the production of the anime. He had direct involvement.

 

People might have a leg to stand on in this argument if Toriyama was completely absent from all the work in GT, but he wasn't. He oversaw it's creation.

 

Where, exactly, does it state that simply because the cartoon went on beyond the manga that there are now two canon versions of events? Why does Dragon Ball and all it's canon have to be limited to the cartoon, why can't it be expanded on in cartoons? Simply because people say so it seems.

 

Let me put it to you like this because I do understand what your saying. If the anime was a direct adaption of the manga then yes it would be canon with the manga. But it wasn't as the Dragonball Z anime had many things that weren't in the Manga and plus you had GT. Thats why its not canon because the things they added to the Dragonball Z anime and GT made it vastly different from the Manga. In order to be canon the things they added or changed would have had to be in the Manga.

 

So the anime has things that happen in the manga and things it doesn't. This makes it a different continuity why? It can't simply expand the story of the comic?

 

Again, it sounds like your argument implies that settings can't change at all and grow. That Dragon Ball started as a comic so it must therefore always be a comic, and any growth in the franchise (even growth headed by the creator of the franchise itself) must stick entirely to the comic and cannot be any deviation of it. It can't possibly be Akira Toriyama thinking "Oh wow, I can remake this comic as a cartoon, and now I can add parts into it that I couldn't before!"?

 

I will also note that if your argument was actually the official line for the franchise you'd easily be able to get a quote or similar from somewhere. Here's a question, where is the first place these "canon rules" appeared? Some website somewhere? An interview?

[Guest Djgambrell]

So basically, you are taking his silence on the matter to mean "People can make up whatever canon rules they want"? His manga ended, but then he oversaw the production of the anime. He had direct involvement.

 

People might have a leg to stand on in this argument if Toriyama was completely absent from all the work in GT, but he wasn't. He oversaw it's creation.

 

Where, exactly, does it state that simply because the cartoon went on beyond the manga that there are now two canon versions of events? Why does Dragon Ball and all it's canon have to be limited to the cartoon, why can't it be expanded on in cartoons? Simply because people say so it seems.

 

 

 

So the anime has things that happen in the manga and things it doesn't. This makes it a different continuity why? It can't simply expand the story of the comic?

 

Again, it sounds like your argument implies that settings can't change at all and grow. That Dragon Ball started as a comic so it must therefore always be a comic, and any growth in the franchise (even growth headed by the creator of the franchise itself) must stick entirely to the comic and cannot be any deviation of it. It can't possibly be Akira Toriyama thinking "Oh wow, I can remake this comic as a cartoon, and now I can add parts into it that I couldn't before!"?

 

I will also note that if your argument was actually the official line for the franchise you'd easily be able to get a quote or similar from somewhere. Here's a question, where is the first place these "canon rules" appeared? Some website somewhere? An interview?

go on.

[Guest Ruinus]

That's basically it. I have a suspicion that the canon rules are made up by people who just didn't like Dragon Ball GT. I mean, not once is there any actual quote that's provided. It's just "Oh man, it's obvious it's not canon!"

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

That's basically it. I have a suspicion that the canon rules are made up by people who just didn't like Dragon Ball GT. I mean, not once is there any actual quote that's provided. It's just "Oh man, it's obvious it's not canon!"

It's not cannon because Akira Toriyama is currently writing the story to Dragonball online 90% of which completely contridicts DBGT and Akira writing>Akira supervising .

[Guest bigballerju]

I don't know how else to get you to know understand.

 

Are the DC Animated movies canon with the comics that some of them are based off? No they are adaptions of them. Thats what I am saying. Adaptions are not canon with the original material there from because of the changes and more they make. Was the Watchmen movie canon with the novel? Are superhero cartoons today canon with what goes on actually in the comics? No

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Also it says in the credits "Based off of original story by Akira Toriyama."

[Guest bigballerju]

It's not cannon because Akira Toriyama is currently writing the story to Dragonball online 90% of which completely contridicts DBGT and Akira writing>Akira supervising .

 

Exactly. Dragonball Kai is prove again that GT isn't canon as he took out all the things that weren't canon with the Manga. When Kai is done it will be prove even more that GT is not canon.

[Guest Djgambrell]

... I concede defeat.

[Guest Ruinus]

It's not cannon because Akira Toriyama is currently writing the story to Dragonball online 90% of which completely contridicts DBGT and Akira writing>Akira supervising .

 

No, it doesn't.

 

Dragon Ball Timeline:

Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball Online take place in different times. Specifically, Dragon Ball Online takes place after Dragon Ball GT. But if you can point out these 90% contradictions, go ahead. I've love to see them.

 

EDIT: The closest contradiction is Age 790, and that seems to be only because two World Martial Arts Tournaments were held, and that really isn't a contradiction if, for whatever reason, they decided to hold two in one year.

 

I don't know how else to get you to know understand.

 

Are the DC Animated movies canon with the comics that some of them are based off? No they are adaptions of them. Thats what I am saying. Adaptions are not canon with the original material there from because of the changes and more they make. Was the Watchmen movie canon with the novel? Are superhero cartoons today canon with what goes on actually in the comics? No

 

DC and Watchment have nothing[/i] to do with Dragon Ball. Try again.

 

Exactly. Dragonball Kai is prove again that GT isn't canon as he took out all the things that weren't canon with the Manga. When Kai is done it will be prove even more that GT is not canon.

 

Dragon Ball Z Kai is purely a remake of Dragon Ball Z with filler episodes cut and remastered in HD. It has nothing at all to do with the canonicity of Dragon Ball GT.