Why do DBZ themed threads never die?

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Well, that may be true for some. If I cared what he looked like, I'd like GT Trunks just as much as Future Trunks. I like his story and character.

God I hate GT Trunks.

[Guest Ivan]

Now that you mention it...

 

Holy crap, that's the most accurate comparison between two godawful characters that I've ever seen.

 

Also, I was once a DBZ fan (see my first post on this topic, like nine pages ago) but I think most DBZ fans in this thread are missing the point. ANYONE who claims DBZ has a "good story" or "good characters" demonstrably lacks the necessary education and experience to make either of those judgments. Sorry. If you make the assertion that DBZ has a good story, or good characters, that demonstrates that you don't have the ability to distinguish quality from crap. Liking crap is fine... I personally enjoy a lot of mindless crap (I'm kind of obsessed with ReBoot, for example.) It's important to know the difference, though. I say Bob and Enzo would TOTALLY destroy Neo and Lain of the Wired in a tag team fight- but I say that because I like ReBoot better than The Matrix or SEL, not because ReBoot has an amazing plot or the characters are invincible.

[Guest bigballerju]

Who is anyone to tell someone whats crap and whats not to anybody? Who is anybody to say what they consider good and what they did consider bad? Sorry but if you hate DBZ find but don't tell anybody they can't tell the difference between quality and crap. Thats goes for anyone period and just isn't CBUB. Don't also tell anyone they lack the education and experience to make a judgement just because they like something that others don't. Thats pure BS and no one has no place to say any of that.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Look I don't care who beats who that's not why I was even on this thread I'm sorry you couldn't find any depth to the story and characters in Dragonball (Z included) but other people did. Are there some people who just like it for the mindless fighting? Yes a ton in fact most of its fan base. But I like it for the story and just because you didn't find it to be a good story or have well developed characters you say people lack the education to distinguish quality from crap? Who are you to say what quality is and what's crap? Do I like every part of DBZ's story NO! I don't even like the main character all that much. But I interpreted part of the story in my own way (Which is what you do with a story.) and found it to be an interesting story with interesting character as did many other people.

[patrickthekid]

I just wanted to point out a similarity. I won't have much of a voice in this argument as I only a casual watcher of the show and hold no vendetta against their fans.

[Guest Ivan]

Who is anyone to tell someone whats crap and whats not to anybody? Who is anybody to say what they consider good and what they did consider bad? Sorry but if you hate DBZ find but don't tell anybody they can't tell the difference between quality and crap. Thats goes for anyone period and just isn't CBUB. Don't also tell anyone they lack the education and experience to make a judgement just because they like something that others don't. Thats pure BS and no one has no place to say any of that.

 

This is entirely inaccurate. An education or experience lets you recognize storytelling elements like voice, pacing, theme, and dynamic characterization: DBZ lacks ALL of these qualities. This is not a matter of opinion. Please, try to understand, there is a difference. Your opinion is your business, but just because you LIKE a work of fiction does not immediately validate it as GOOD. You are entitled to your opinion, everyone is, but you can't use "I like it shut up" as an empirical basis for establishing the show has quality. If you want to talk about the beautiful art, the kinetic fight animation, the stylish character design, you are free to make a valid claim for DBZ being a very attractive piece of art. Do you understand at least that much? It is possible to make credible claims about the visual impact of the show, because those are the elements where it succeeds. However, praising the storyline or characterization immediately destroys any credibility you might have aspired to, because those are far and away the show's weakest points. This is why you people are so frustrating. DBZ is full of two-dimensional characters and a wholly transparent storyline. It is also full of kick-ass fights. If you like it for the right reasons, for the simple, mind-numbing, popcorn entertainment that it is, that's totally cool. Don't f*cking step to me with bullshit claims about its "great story," though.

[Guest Ivan]

Can I just say, by the way, that DBZ still has a few of my favorite animated fights of all time? Battle for Earth (movie 3) and Rebirth of Fusion (movie 12) has some fantastic melee sequences.

[Guest Lunacyde]

@ Ivan. This may be slightly off-topic, however your PM box is full and it would not allow me to message you.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Ivan said:

This is entirely inaccurate. An education or experience lets you recognize storytelling elements like voice, pacing, theme, and dynamic characterization: DBZ lacks ALL of these qualities. This is not a matter of opinion. Please, try to understand, there is a difference. Your opinion is your business, but just because you LIKE a work of fiction does not immediately validate it as GOOD. You are entitled to your opinion, everyone is, but you can't use "I like it shut up" as an empirical basis for establishing the show has quality. If you want to talk about the beautiful art, the kinetic fight animation, the stylish character design, you are free to make a valid claim for DBZ being a very attractive piece of art. Do you understand at least that much? It is possible to make credible claims about the visual impact of the show, because those are the elements where it succeeds. However, praising the storyline or characterization immediately destroys any credibility you might have aspired to, because those are far and away the show's weakest points. This is why you people are so frustrating. DBZ is full of two-dimensional characters and a wholly transparent storyline. It is also full of kick-ass fights. If you like it for the right reasons, for the simple, mind-numbing, popcorn entertainment that it is, that's totally cool. Don't f*cking step to me with bullshit claims about its "great story," though.

You say people are just saying "I like shut up" when all your doing is saying "I hate it shut up"

And what do you mean it's filled with two-dimensional characters I can name a ton of characters who went through substantial changes throughout the series Vegeta,Piccolo,Tenshinhan,Kuririn,Jinzoningen 18,Freeza and even Gohan. Saying it's filled with two-dimensional characters is basically saying you haven't seen the show since you were five.

[Guest bigballerju]

If someone thinks something is Good its there opinion and it doesn't matter whether anyone else thinks its bad or not. I don't care what anyone thinks of something I like because there not me and no one has a right to force anything on me. Thats all I wanted to say on that. There are different stories and characters meant for different reasons.

 

No one is gone tell me what I should and should not think is good.

[Guest Ivan]

Darksaiyajin345 said:

You say people are just saying "I like shut up" when all your doing is saying "I hate it shut up"

And what do you mean it's filled with two-dimensional characters I can name a ton of characters who went through substantial changes throughout the series Vegeta,Piccolo,Tenshinhan,Kuririn,Jinzoningen 18,Freeza and even Gohan. Saying it's filled with two-dimensional characters is basically saying you haven't seen the show since you were five.

 

Once again, patently incorrect. You have attempted to reduce my post to an inaccurate (and therefor easily negatable) summation, however, you failed to address the crux of my argument. Insofar as characters who experienced change, you can only name Vegeta, who went from being an angry villain to just being angry. That is not a "substantial change." There is no meaningful difference in any of the other characters on the list (aside from age and "power level.") There is no substantive characterization in the show to speak of, only a series of broad stereotypes, largely based on gender, age, and social position. There is no thematic transformation, only a minor series of superficial "alignment" shifts. No character's individual arc even serves as a relevant object lesson. So no, I was speaking the absolute truth, and I wasn't "basically saying" anything of the sort. Nice try.

[Guest bigballerju]

No problem. As long as we agree its not a bullshit claim when someone thinks DBZ is good as far as story and characters when it comes to there opinion. Goku, Krillin, Bulma, Yamcha, and Piccolo all had great growths as characters from Dragonball to Dragonball Z in my view.

[Guest Ivan]

You're all free to like what you want.

 

This thread was created, ostensibly, to explore the reason why DBZ fans are so remarkably unpopular among the more articulate members of this website. I have addressed this issue, to exhaustion.

 

I will allow bigballerju the final post, and then I am closing this thread.

[Guest bigballerju]

I am done as I think this DBZ discussion has gone on long enough.