8:12 - Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer vs. Officer Rick Grimes

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 8, ROUND 12

Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer

Slot: The Team's Survivor
Season Wins: 4
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer at Wikipedia
Official Site: 20th Century Fox

Officer Rick Grimes

Slot: The Team's Survivor
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 3
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Officer Rick Grimes at Wikipedia
Official Site: Image Comics

Battle Terrain
Survival Challenge: The Crawl Scenario

[Fox]

One of these contenders looks like he could physically wrestle a gator successfully, and one does not.

[Peypeypeypey]

17 minutes ago, Fox said:

One of these contenders looks like he could physically wrestle a gator successfully, and one does not.

Looks can be very deceiving. Rick casually chops through skulls literally without missing a beat, and his durability I would argue has much higher feats. I have no doubt Dutch could lift more, but that won't really come in handy here. Rick's just better at surviving, and assuming they each only have what they would have in the scenario he should win

[C.T.]

Dutch got bonded with Predator DNA in experimental treatments according to his wikia and that presumably gave him enhanced physicals on top of what he normally could do?  Are we counting that?

[Peypeypeypey]

3 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Dutch got bonded with Predator DNA in experimental treatments according to his wikia and that presumably gave him enhanced physicals on top of what he normally could do?  Are we counting that?

The category stipulated "no superpowers." I think that counts as one

[C.T.]

Mh I suppose so lol 

[Pizzaguy2995]

My initial edge goes to Dutch, with the biggest factor being sheer durability. In films like Crawl the killer animal always tends to sneak attack the characters in order to give them a horrific intro to what their going to be facing. From The Shallows to The Grey, the survivors of these killer animals films are usually the ones who are better able to tank the first attack and from then on try to figure out the best way to trick the creatures. Considering Dutch powered through attacks from the Predator and then latter tricked and mortally wounded it, I’d say he has the better feats to survive this scenario.

[Macklemore]

 A similar fight already transpired (down to the arena) and I feel like the decision was right back then as well.

[Bergy_Berg]

27 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

 A similar fight already transpired (down to the arena) and I feel like the decision was right back then as well.

Nope, different scenarios.

Anyway, this is a survival sprint. Survive the gators, get out of the house, get rescued, go on with life. Dutch basically does that against the predator, alligators are no problem.

[Peypeypeypey]

People are way overestimating Dutch in general, but here specifically. Rick survives for years in a total post-apocalypse in Georgia, which I'm certain has gators. Even if he doesn't personally have experience with Gators, he's a great survivor who has years of experience with ambush predators, more experience with general survival skills, and as a Sheriff, he no doubt knows a lot of safety information about disaster scenarios that would help keep him safe. Dutch is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but I think people are way overselling the Predator thing. Yes, it's impressive, but it's a lot less impressive because the way predator's nerf themselves

[Magnamax]

For all intents and purposes, Dutch didn’t even really survive the first film. There are at least 3-4 times where the Predator would have killed him outright, but doesn’t because of some honor nonsense.

 

This challenge is also about surviving the gators, not who can more effectively fight the gators head-on. That would probably be the best way to get killed quickly here. I think keeping moving and not getting cornered is important here, and lines up with Rick’s usual survival tactics better than Dutch.

[RakaiThwei]

Fun fact.. Canonically, at least within Disney's Predator continuity... Dutch LOST against a Female Yautja. And this was when he is currently leading an Anti-Predator tactile team.

The females are the deadlier of the Yautja species. And apparently... they're sent when a situation is dire.

She only spared Dutch because he wasn't worth it in her eyes.

[Peypeypeypey]

9 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Fun fact.. Canonically, at least within Disney's Predator continuity... Dutch LOST against a Female Yautja. And this was when he is currently leading an Anti-Predator tactile team.

The females are the deadlier of the Yautja species. And apparently... they're sent when a situation is dire.

She only spared Dutch because he wasn't worth it in her eyes.

So what I'm hearing is that Dutch got his first kill on a Yautja because of its pride and not taking him seriously, his second encounter he literally survived based on what the predator wiki describes as dumb luck, and even after that, when he got equipment and more used to how Predators hunt, he still just got so absolutely dunked on by the first competent predator he's been up against, and he only survived because it literally wasn't even worth her time

[RakaiThwei]

4 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

So what I'm hearing is that Dutch got his first kill on a Yautja because of its pride and not taking him seriously, his second encounter he literally survived based on what the predator wiki describes as dumb luck, and even after that, when he got equipment and more used to how Predators hunt, he still just got so absolutely dunked on by the first competent predator he's been up against, and he only survived because it literally wasn't even worth her time

What does the movie tell us from a narrative standpoint?

Dutch and his team were an Elite special forces squad. The Yautja in question hunted them for sport and in the case of Dutch, it was a cat and mouse game. Then later on, when the Yautja in question got him out of hiding, and then decided to fight Dutch hand to hand-- which the Yautja was dominating. Dutch tried to lure the Yautja in a trap, which he does but it doesn't go as intended..  Dutch tried to get the Yautja with the log he had placed wooden stakes on but the Yautja spotted it and went around the trap.

Dutch realized he was dead. The Predator had him dead to rights. But here is where Dutch got lucky. The suspension log used to keep the spiked log held up was there. This part of the trap wasn't even intended to kill or be used as the trap intended. It dropped on the Yautja and the rest is history.

So it wasn't the Predator necessarily nerfing himself or Dutch trapping the Predator in question. It's that Dutch got lucky. Plain and simple.

As for other encounters, I don't know about those. I don't pay attention to Disney's continuity for Predator.

But yes... Dutch got lucky the first time. Against the female Yautja... Not so lucky but she spared him because he wasn't worth it.

But I want to dispel one thing.... Predators don't necessarily nerf themselves out of honor, and that is not even a mandate to their honor code. That's more of a guideline than a rule, therefore not every Predator follows this and not adhering to it does not infraction their honor... It spoils the kill but doesn't stain their honor. They only "nerf" themselves to make it more fair for the prey in question and make a kill enjoyable.

[Pizzaguy2995]

On 4/17/2021 at 11:16 AM, Magnamax said:

For all intents and purposes, Dutch didn’t even really survive the first film. There are at least 3-4 times where the Predator would have killed him outright, but doesn’t because of some honor nonsense.

 

This challenge is also about surviving the gators, not who can more effectively fight the gators head-on. That would probably be the best way to get killed quickly here. I think keeping moving and not getting cornered is important here, and lines up with Rick’s usual survival tactics better than Dutch.

 

On 4/17/2021 at 11:48 AM, Peypeypeypey said:

So what I'm hearing is that Dutch got his first kill on a Yautja because of its pride and not taking him seriously, his second encounter he literally survived based on what the predator wiki describes as dumb luck, and even after that, when he got equipment and more used to how Predators hunt, he still just got so absolutely dunked on by the first competent predator he's been up against, and he only survived because it literally wasn't even worth her time

Um, how many times has Rick only survived via dumb luck or one of his allies saving him? Literally every single major villain he’s encountered from the Governor, to Negan, and Alpha have all had him at their mercy at least one time or another, usually during his first encounter with him. Only difference is that Dutch had to be overpowered by an alien capable of wiping out small armies, Rick was taken down by regular humans.

[Peypeypeypey]

Just now, Pizzaguy2995 said:

 

Um, how many times has Rick only survived via dumb luck or one of his allies saving him? Literally every single major villain he’s encountered from the Governor, to Negan, and Alpha have all had him at their mercy at list one time or another, usually during his first encounter with him. Only difference is that Dutch had to be overpowered by an alien capable of wiping out small armies, Rick was taken down by regular humans.

That last sentence is literally my entire point. No, he didn't have to be overpowered by an alien capable of wiping out small armies. He was overpowered by said alien, but only because the alien fought him on his own terms, and even then, he got completely wrecked. Yes, both characters benefit from luck. That's not my point though. My point is that Dutch is being put on the predator's level when he's just objectively nowhere close to one

[RakaiThwei]

47 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

My point is that Dutch is being put on the predator's level when he's just objectively nowhere close to one

Dutch is overrated... No, seriously he is.

Because he won through sheer dumb luck after his first encounter, the Yautja have developed something of a bad rep of jobbing to humans-- even those who are higher ranked than the Jungle Hunter in terms of clan status, skill, experience, strength, speed, and weapons. The one which Dutch killed was relatively low on the totem pole as far as Yautja clan ranks are concerned.

If he were to go up against the protagonist Predators from the old Pre-Disney EU, Dutch would be killed.

[Pizzaguy2995]

6 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

That last sentence is literally my entire point. No, he didn't have to be overpowered by an alien capable of wiping out small armies. He was overpowered by said alien, but only because the alien fought him on his own terms, and even then, he got completely wrecked. Yes, both characters benefit from luck. That's not my point though. My point is that Dutch is being put on the predator's level when he's just objectively nowhere close to one

 

6 hours ago, RakaiThwei said:

Dutch is overrated... No, seriously he is.

Because he won through sheer dumb luck after his first encounter, the Yautja have developed something of a bad rep of jobbing to humans-- even those who are higher ranked than the Jungle Hunter in terms of clan status, skill, experience, strength, speed, and weapons. The one which Dutch killed was relatively low on the totem pole as far as Yautja clan ranks are concerned.

If he were to go up against the protagonist Predators from the old Pre-Disney EU, Dutch would be killed.

Nowhere near that close huh? Overrated hmmm? Do you guys recall the start of the first Predator film, before the big arrived and it was Dutch’s team verses a small army of guerrilla forces plus some Soviet special ops? How many casualties did they take again? None! They mowed down the army that probably outnumbered them by several margins and made it look easy! Shrugged off being shot like it was nothing (“I ain’t got time to bleed!”) even killing machine gun wielding guys with a tossed machete! (“Stick around!”) Why do you you think the movie had to show that scene first? Because the director wanted to firmly establish that in their world, Dutch and his men were the creme de le creme, the baddest motherfuckers of them all! All of them were meant to seen as being an action movie star in their right, played fittingly enough by some of the toughest men in Hollywood at the time: Jesse Ventura, Carl Weathers, Sonny Landham, and Arnie! That’s what made the film so memorable, in literally any other movie Dutch would have been the unstoppable 90s action star that would have been a walking tank that ate terrorists and bad guys for breakfast! It was only next to the freaking Predator that Dutch looked even remotely human! Literally rewatch the scenes before the Predator arrived and tell me you wouldn’t have believed that this was your standard 90s film where the heroes were borderline unkillable juggernauts of men.

[RakaiThwei]

4 hours ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

 

Nowhere near that close huh? Overrated hmmm? Do you guys recall the start of the first Predator film, before the big arrived and it was Dutch’s team verses a small army of guerrilla forces plus some Soviet special ops? How many casualties did they take again? None! They mowed down the army that probably outnumbered them by several margins and made it look easy! Shrugged off being shot like it was nothing (“I ain’t got time to bleed!”) even killing machine gun wielding guys with a tossed machete! (“Stick around!”) Why do you you think the movie had to show that scene first? Because the director wanted to firmly establish that in their world, Dutch and his men were the creme de le creme, the baddest motherfuckers of them all! All of them were meant to seen as being an action movie star in their right, played fittingly enough by some of the toughest men in Hollywood at the time: Jesse Ventura, Carl Weathers, Sonny Landham, and Arnie! That’s what made the film so memorable, in literally any other movie Dutch would have been the unstoppable 90s action star that would have been a walking tank that ate terrorists and bad guys for breakfast! It was only next to the freaking Predator that Dutch looked even remotely human! Literally rewatch the scenes before the Predator arrived and tell me you wouldn’t have believed that this was your standard 90s film where the heroes were borderline unkillable juggernauts of men.

Agustinaldo, is that you?

[Pizzaguy2995]

1 hour ago, RakaiThwei said:

Agustinaldo, is that you?

I do not know who that is. Is it a reference to something?

[RakaiThwei]

38 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

I do not know who that is. Is it a reference to something?

Dude was a troll from Argentina. He roamed the CBUB a decade ago. 

[Fox]

3 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Dude was a troll from Argentina. He roamed the CBUB a decade ago. 

Pizzaguy's comments seem a reasonable discussion of the topic.  I don't see trolling here.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer : 9
Officer Rick Grimes: 5

[Pizzaguy2995]

55 minutes ago, RakaiThwei said:

Dude was a troll from Argentina. He roamed the CBUB a decade ago. 

I was just arguing my point about who I think would win same as you were. No need to throw the term “troll” around.