Iron man Extremis vs Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)

[Guest God-Speed_88]

It wasn;t designed to kill GL's, but combating GLs was included as a kinda bonus. Like a stero system on a car. There are many reasons why The scarab would have ran rather then fight, perhaps he was outmatched, or didn't think Jamie was up to the task. This is very likely because, as the quote says, this was during his first few days. Combating a GL would be like a cop taking on a mass murdering serial killer on his first day. The fact remains, combating GLs is an important function of the Scarab, whether it is the main one or not.

 

What? That makes no sense, if yellow is the weakness because it personifies fear, then fear itself would have an even greater impact on a GL, the power comes from willpower, fear interferes with this, and thus, the power diminishes, its called common sense. Fear is a GL weakness, whether the GL's have accepted yellow or not.

 

It is actually the colour yellow. An example is when Batman and Robin painted themselves and a room yellow, lured Hal Jordan in and beat the shit out of him.

 

The whole thing came from Parallax etc etc etc but now the argument is mute due to it only affecting rookies.

[Guest sirmethos]

It wasn;t designed to kill GL's, but combating GLs was included as a kinda bonus. Like a stero system on a car. There are many reasons why The scarab would have ran rather then fight, perhaps he was outmatched, or didn't think Jamie was up to the task. This is very likely because, as the quote says, this was during his first few days. Combating a GL would be like a cop taking on a mass murdering serial killer on his first day. The fact remains, combating GLs is an important function of the Scarab, whether it is the main one or not.

 

What? That makes no sense, if yellow is the weakness because it personifies fear, then fear itself would have an even greater impact on a GL, the power comes from willpower, fear interferes with this, and thus, the power diminishes, its called common sense. Fear is a GL weakness, whether the GL's have accepted yellow or not.

 

Fear interferes with Willpower yes, and that weakness, shows itself through a weakness against Yellow.

 

i never said anything about accepting yellow, i said they had accepted Fear, and thus defeated that weakness.

 

as for BB fleeing. the Scarab can act autonomously and take control for a short period of time, so if it was actually designed to fight GL's, its course of action would have been simple: raise arms, fire blast of Red Lantern Energy.

 

but it didn't, for the simple fact that it is Not designed to fight, or kill, Green Lanterns. it was supposed to be a method to avoid fighting Green Lanterns.

 

 

 

however, we're getting off topic here.

 

 

your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, by having a built-in 'red lantern energy' generator, has one single, glaring, flaw: Jamies fight against members of the Sinestro Corps.

 

one of Jamies main feats of shielding, is an energy shield that was able to tank full power blasts from a member of the Sinestro Corps.

 

now, the two options i already stated earlier, 1. Superior Power, or 2. being able to imitate/replicate various forms of energy. would both account for that feat as well. since the Sinestro Corps. aka. Yellow Lanterns, have an inherent weakness towards Blue Lantern energy. just like the Green Lanterns have a weakness towards Red Lantern energy.

 

However, while your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, could make sense with only the feat against Green Lanterns in mind, it is made implausible when the feat against the Sinestro Corps is part of the picture as well. for one simple reason:

 

the Scarab and the Reach has never encountered Yellow Lanterns. they never existed in the main reality before Sinestro went rogue and obtained the first Yellow Lantern ring from an alternative reality, the Yellow Lantern Battery is still in the Anti-Matter Universe where Sinestro obtained the ring, and all members of the Sinestro Corps were, on being recruited, taken to that universe for psychological and physical reconditioning, and to get their rings.

 

this means that there is no way the Reach could have built a weapon against the Yellow Lanterns into the Scarabs.

 

also, the fact that the Scarab that is actually part of this fight, came to earth several thousand years ago, Long before the creation of the Yellow Lantern Corps.

 

 

 

now, since your theory of the Scarabs having a built-in 'Red Energy' generator has been disproven. we are back at exactly 2 possibilities that can explain the energy feats of the Scarab:

 

1. Superior Power, the Scarab blasted through a GL shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because he simply has more power. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily blast through Iron Man like he wasn't even there.

 

2. Energy Replication/Imitation. the Scarab blasted through a GL Shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because it was able to imitate Red and Blue Lantern Energy, by scanning the Green and Yellow Lanterns and adapt to their weaknesses. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily replicate Magical Energy, and blast Iron Man out of the air because he has no defense against that.

 

 

 

either way, as i said back in the beginning of this thread, Blue Beetle Wins.

[Guest force_echo]

Fear interferes with Willpower yes, and that weakness, shows itself through a weakness against Yellow.

 

i never said anything about accepting yellow, i said they had accepted Fear, and thus defeated that weakness.

 

as for BB fleeing. the Scarab can act autonomously and take control for a short period of time, so if it was actually designed to fight GL's, its course of action would have been simple: raise arms, fire blast of Red Lantern Energy.

 

but it didn't, for the simple fact that it is Not designed to fight, or kill, Green Lanterns. it was supposed to be a method to avoid fighting Green Lanterns.

 

 

 

however, we're getting off topic here.

 

 

your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, by having a built-in 'red lantern energy' generator, has one single, glaring, flaw: Jamies fight against members of the Sinestro Corps.

 

one of Jamies main feats of shielding, is an energy shield that was able to tank full power blasts from a member of the Sinestro Corps.

 

now, the two options i already stated earlier, 1. Superior Power, or 2. being able to imitate/replicate various forms of energy. would both account for that feat as well. since the Sinestro Corps. aka. Yellow Lanterns, have an inherent weakness towards Blue Lantern energy. just like the Green Lanterns have a weakness towards Red Lantern energy.

 

However, while your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, could make sense with only the feat against Green Lanterns in mind, it is made implausible when the feat against the Sinestro Corps is part of the picture as well. for one simple reason:

 

the Scarab and the Reach has never encountered Yellow Lanterns. they never existed in the main reality before Sinestro went rogue and obtained the first Yellow Lantern ring from an alternative reality, the Yellow Lantern Battery is still in the Anti-Matter Universe where Sinestro obtained the ring, and all members of the Sinestro Corps were, on being recruited, taken to that universe for psychological and physical reconditioning, and to get their rings.

 

this means that there is no way the Reach could have built a weapon against the Yellow Lanterns into the Scarabs.

 

also, the fact that the Scarab that is actually part of this fight, came to earth several thousand years ago, Long before the creation of the Yellow Lantern Corps.

 

 

 

now, since your theory of the Scarabs having a built-in 'Red Energy' generator has been disproven. we are back at exactly 2 possibilities that can explain the energy feats of the Scarab:

 

1. Superior Power, the Scarab blasted through a GL shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because he simply has more power. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily blast through Iron Man like he wasn't even there.

 

2. Energy Replication/Imitation. the Scarab blasted through a GL Shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because it was able to imitate Red and Blue Lantern Energy, by scanning the Green and Yellow Lanterns and adapt to their weaknesses. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily replicate Magical Energy, and blast Iron Man out of the air because he has no defense against that.

 

 

 

either way, as i said back in the beginning of this thread, Blue Beetle Wins.

Here we are again with you putting words in my mouth. I never said BB has a Red Lantern generator. I didn't know WHAT caused him to do that to a GL, until Fear. Fear would disrupt a GL's powers, but as you pointed out, that doesn't work vs. a Sinestro corp member.

 

In regard to your two points, point 2 is the plausible one, Red Energy or Blue energy is something it would be able to duplicate. Magic however, it cannot, it does not understand magic, it can't replicate magic, it cant do anything except those 3 things with magic. Magic is apart from your regular energies, and that's why it wouldn't work to duplicate magic.

 

If you prove however, that BB can duplicate magical energies, I will concede this fight.

 

This is my argument for BB not being able to replicate magical energies: ": While the Scarab is aware of magic, it doesn't understand it. It's able to perceive, absorb, and disrupt magical energies, but little else."

[Guest sirmethos]

Here we are again with you putting words in my mouth. I never said BB has a Red Lantern generator. I didn't know WHAT caused him to do that to a GL, until Fear. Fear would disrupt a GL's powers, but as you pointed out, that doesn't work vs. a Sinestro corp member.

 

In regard to your two points, point 2 is the plausible one, Red Energy or Blue energy is something it would be able to duplicate. Magic however, it cannot, it does not understand magic, it can't replicate magic, it cant do anything except those 3 things with magic. Magic is apart from your regular energies, and that's why it wouldn't work to duplicate magic.

 

If you prove however, that BB can duplicate magical energies, I will concede this fight.

 

This is my argument for BB not being able to replicate magical energies: ": While the Scarab is aware of magic, it doesn't understand it. It's able to perceive, absorb, and disrupt magical energies, but little else."

 

 

GL Ring: "It is also theorized that the ring also has a basis in other dimensional energies commonly called magic by users of such energies. The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that is bound by the users' will."

 

YL Ring: "It is also theorized that the ring also has a basis in other dimensional energies commonly called magic by users of such energies. The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

 

Violet Ring: "The rings use Star Sapphire energy, supplied by a Power Battery, which in most cases takes the form of violet light." "the mystical power and ability of the Starheart, an ancient artifact created by the Guardians of the Universe. The Starheart is capable of many magical and mystical powers and abilities"

 

Red Ring: "The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

 

Indigo Ring: "the Indigo can emulate the other energies of the emotional spectrum when they are in close proximity to them and use those energies for their own use. "

 

Orange Ring: "The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

 

Blue Ring: "The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

 

 

the Lantern rings and the energies they use, have always been theorized to be at least partially mystical in nature, also, you don't necessarily have to Understand something, to Replicate it.

 

the blueprints for the energies that the Scarab replicates/imitates, are in the weaknesses of the opponents it scans.

 

example: the Scarab scans a Green Lantern and finds the weakness of the GL Ring. now, since it has never encountered any power rings before, it doesn't actually Know that the weakness it is seeing, is 'Red Lantern Energy', it simply sees the proverbial cracks in the Green Lanterns armor, and creates something that fits into those cracks.

 

it's like playing music, you read the notes and play the notes, you don't necessarily have to understand the technical intricacies to do that.

 

likewise, when scanning Iron Man, one of the cracks in His proverbial armor, is his weakness towards Magical Energy, thus, the Scarab will simply create something that fits into those cracks.

 

now, i'm not saying that it has to be magical energy, Iron Man has more weaknesses than just magic, but as i pointed out. there is a very easy way, in which the Scarab would be able to replicate magical energy, without understanding it.

 

 

 

and as a final note: i was not, as you said, putting words in your mouth, you did that yourself.

 

"Here we are again with you putting words in my mouth. I never said BB has a Red Lantern generator. "

 

 

"The Reach designed it with this capability, this mysterious capability of being a GL smasher, they cultivated the Scarabs that way, they were designed that way, they were designed to have Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield,"

[Guest force_echo]

You have yet again to find concrete evidence that BB can duplicate magical energies. Your theories sound halfwinded and desperate.

 

"Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield" I didn't know exactly what it was, so I was just throwing stuff out there, I never said explicitly that the Red energy is what causes a scarab to break through a gL shield.

[Guest sirmethos]

You have yet again to find concrete evidence that BB can duplicate magical energies. Your theories sound halfwinded and desperate.

 

"Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield" I didn't know exactly what it was, so I was just throwing stuff out there, I never said explicitly that the Red energy is what causes a scarab to break through a gL shield.

 

i don't have to prove that he uses Magical Energy. that would only be the case if Magic was Iron Mans only weakness.

 

what i posted in my last post, was how the Scarab will easily make a blast that takes Iron Man down, ie. by adapting to his weaknesses.

 

and they are not theories, that is actually how the Scarabs 'Antagonist Adaption' works. its how it could replicate Kryptonite energy without ever having encountered Kryptonite, among other things.

[Guest force_echo]

i don't have to prove that he uses Magical Energy. that would only be the case if Magic was Iron Mans only weakness.

OK then, what are some of his other weaknesses?

 

Ima review the stats one more time here.

 

Durability- Iron Man

Energy Projection- Iron Man

Speed- Iron Man

Strength- Iron Man

Fighting Skill- Iron Man

Intelligence- Iron Man

 

This is the only debate I've been in when there is an argument for a character who is outmatched in all 6 aspects of combat.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

He means specific weaknesses. Are you going to say that that there is absolutely zero attacks that do not do specifically well against Iron Man?

[Guest sirmethos]

OK then, what are some of his other weaknesses?

 

first, going through the shields: BB can easily do this in 1 of 2 ways.

 

1. since the ehields are energy within a certain frequency, it's a simple matter of creating a blast of a frequency that bypasses that of IMs shields.

 

2. send out a pulse that shuts down the armor.

 

next, going through the physical armor: BB can do this quite easily as well using one of a few methods.

 

1. frequency/phasing, a blast that bypasses the molecular structure of the armor while hitting the man under it. just a matter of scanning him to find the structure of the armor.

 

2. electricity, once the armor is shut down, IM can't absorb energy, which means that an electrical blast is likely to fry the person IN the armor.

 

3. tachyon blast, using this BB has bypassed armor in the past, and can knock Tony unconscious, which would give BB the win just as well as Tony being dead would.

 

 

 

and before you start saying that 'the shields isn't made of specific frequencies', yes it is. all the energy that Iron Man uses is electromagnetic energy, just like all other energy used on earth. that means that it does have a certain frequency, which can be bypassed.

[Guest bobisbeast]

Another weakness; extremely powerful viruses as seen in Secret Invasion. Which have shown to completly shut down the Extremis armor.

[Guest force_echo]

first, going through the shields: BB can easily do this in 1 of 2 ways.

 

1. since the ehields are energy within a certain frequency, it's a simple matter of creating a blast of a frequency that bypasses that of IMs shields.

 

2. send out a pulse that shuts down the armor.

 

next, going through the physical armor: BB can do this quite easily as well using one of a few methods.

 

1. frequency/phasing, a blast that bypasses the molecular structure of the armor while hitting the man under it. just a matter of scanning him to find the structure of the armor.

 

2. electricity, once the armor is shut down, IM can't absorb energy, which means that an electrical blast is likely to fry the person IN the armor.

 

3. tachyon blast, using this BB has bypassed armor in the past, and can knock Tony unconscious, which would give BB the win just as well as Tony being dead would.

 

 

 

and before you start saying that 'the shields isn't made of specific frequencies', yes it is. all the energy that Iron Man uses is electromagnetic energy, just like all other energy used on earth. that means that it does have a certain frequency, which can be bypassed.

All energy on earth is electromagnetic energy? Wow. And you said I need to revisit my physics class.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Frequency deals with waves, Iron Man's energy sheilds aren't made of freaking radio waves or gamma waves or something, thats the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Even if what you're saying is plausible, which it isn'ty, comic books are not rooted in science, so unless you find prove of Iron Man's shields being made up of "different frequencies" its still invalid.

 

As shown in Director of SHIELD, even when someone posseses the exact frequency and exact circuitry of the armor, and designs a specific EMP charge to shut it down, the armor only stays down for a few seconds before rebooting.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

Someone said viruses. BB uses a mutagenic ray to turn Tony's white blood cells into a malicious virus. the end

[Guest force_echo]

Ok, so BB, using his adaption powers, can defeat anyone. Ok, fine, conceded.

[Schnee Corp Lawyer]

Never said I was too fond of the ability, and without it Iron man would probably win, but it exists and was not outlawed, so it takes the win

[Guest bobisbeast]

What I ment was A computer virus that infected the Extremis armor not a cold type virus.

[Guest sirmethos]

All energy on earth is electromagnetic energy? Wow. And you said I need to revisit my physics class.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Frequency deals with waves, Iron Man's energy sheilds aren't made of freaking radio waves or gamma waves or something, thats the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Even if what you're saying is plausible, which it isn'ty, comic books are not rooted in science, so unless you find prove of Iron Man's shields being made up of "different frequencies" its still invalid.

 

As shown in Director of SHIELD, even when someone posseses the exact frequency and exact circuitry of the armor, and designs a specific EMP charge to shut it down, the armor only stays down for a few seconds before rebooting.

 

i said all the energy used on earth. and that is electro-magnetic, yes.

 

and yes, all electro-magnetic energy is waves.

 

if you didn't know this, then yes, you need to revisit some physics classes.

 

 

as for proof, the best proof lies in the descriptions of Iron Mans powers themselves, all of his energy measurements(the power output for his ehields, repulsors, etc.) are measured in Watts and Joules, which are terms of measurement used for Electrical and Electro-Magnetic energy.

 

the only attacks Iron Man has that are not measured that way, are those that use physical means, like missiles, projectiles and Plasma.

[Guest force_echo]

i said all the energy used on earth. and that is electro-magnetic, yes.

 

and yes, all electro-magnetic energy is waves.

 

if you didn't know this, then yes, you need to revisit some physics classes.

 

 

as for proof, the best proof lies in the descriptions of Iron Mans powers themselves, all of his energy measurements(the power output for his ehields, repulsors, etc.) are measured in Watts and Joules, which are terms of measurement used for Electrical and Electro-Magnetic energy.

 

the only attacks Iron Man has that are not measured that way, are those that use physical means, like missiles, projectiles and Plasma.

Wow, gonna have to dig back to 7th grade for this. Electrical energy is the flow of electrons, thats the energy you're talking about, as that's the energy used by Earth's denizens. It has NOTHING to do with WAVES or frequency. Watts is amps times voltage, that has nothing to do with waves, nothing to do with EM energy. Waves dont have amps OR voltage. Joule is not an EM unit either, it can be, but its a general unit for all kinds of energy. This is such a simple concept, one that you should have learned in middle school, waves =/= electricity. Waves deal with frequency, wave length, period, and joule, those are the units for EM radiation. Damn.

[Guest sirmethos]

Wow, gonna have to dig back to 7th grade for this. Electrical energy is the flow of electrons, thats the energy you're talking about, as that's the energy used by Earth's denizens. It has NOTHING to do with WAVES or frequency. Watts is amps times voltage, that has nothing to do with waves, nothing to do with EM energy. Waves dont have amps OR voltage. Joule is not an EM unit either, it can be, but its a general unit for all kinds of energy. This is such a simple concept, one that you should have learned in middle school, waves =/= electricity. Waves deal with frequency, wave length, period, and joule, those are the units for EM radiation. Damn.

 

 

"Definition

 

* In terms of Classical mechanics, one watt is the rate at which work is done when an object's velocity is held constant at one meter per second against constant opposing force of one newton.

 

\mathrm{W = \frac{J}{s} = \frac{N\cdot m}{s} = \frac{kg\cdot m^2}{s^3}}

 

* In terms of electromagnetism, one watt is the rate at which work is done when one ampere (A) of current flows through an electrical potential difference of one volt (V).

 

W = VA "

[Skirmisher]

Holy Shit... this is still going on even though Echo has conceded the fight?

 

Also... All Energy is Waves, all energy has a Wavelength.

 

Those Electrons traveling through a wire? They have a Wavelength.

 

Hell... Even matter has a Wavelength as shown by the de Broglie wave demonstration.

 

The Whole Universe is just a Frequency on a string. Everything is a wave.

[Guest force_echo]

" * In terms of electromagnetism, one watt is the rate at which work is done when one ampere (A) of current flows through an electrical potential difference of one volt (V).

 

W = VA "

Which is what I just said....

[Guest force_echo]

Holy Shit... this is still going on even though Echo has conceded the fight?

 

Also... All Energy is Waves, all energy has a Wavelength.

 

Those Electrons traveling through a wire? They have a Wavelength.

 

Hell... Even matter has a Wavelength as shown by the de Broglie wave demonstration.

 

The Whole Universe is just a Frequency on a string. Everything is a wave.

The magnetic field the current produces has a frequency, AC has a frequency determining how often the current switches over, as shown by a sine wave, but electrons travelling through a wire don't have wavelengths.

[Indolent]

Holy Shit... this is still going on even though Echo has conceded the fight?

 

Also... All Energy is Waves, all energy has a Wavelength.

 

Those Electrons traveling through a wire? They have a Wavelength.

 

Hell... Even matter has a Wavelength as shown by the de Broglie wave demonstration.

 

The Whole Universe is just a Frequency on a string. Everything is a wave.

LET'S DO THE WAVE!

 

On another note, interesting tidbit of information. o.o

[Guest force_echo]

De Broglie didn't show that matter was made up of waves, he said that matter produces wave-like properties, and particle like properties. Its part of the Wave-particle duality model. Matter's kinetic energy manifests itself in wave properties, which have a frequency and wavelength. These things, however, are beyond the head of anyone on this site, so I suggest we leave this theory alone.

[Indolent]

I'm pretty sure Ruinus and Skirmisher know lots about this.

[Guest force_echo]

I'm pretty sure Ruinus and Skirmisher know lots about this.

Anyone does by looking up a Wiki, but if Skirmisher and Ruinus can fully grasp this idea, they should be working for NASA instead of being on CBUB. (Thats sarcasm incase you didn't read it.)