Lady Shiva vs Daredevil

[Guest Oltobaz]

Strangler:

 

Have you read Elektra stories, or Marvel stories where she appears? Let's say yes. You'll have noticed then she doesn't employ Saïs as an absolute rule. Her fists and kicks are just as deadly.

 

I certainly agree, they're not 100% similar. They do have a lot in common, dark personnality, zen attitude, training first class hero.. Shiva taught Bruce, Elektra too Logan under her win... They do have difference, such as Elektra's wider range of techniques.. as for 

who is wiser, more clever... there's no ground to make such a claim, beyond your own beliefs, of course.

 

DD will see in Shiva what me, and others, are seeing, someone that reminds him of a certain deadly Ninja (meaning martial artist and assassin, just so you know) he's been acquainted with for years. An ambiguous character with her own code. Almost the same archetype. With similar personnalities. Which makes sense, they're both the top human female martial artists in their respective universes. That's why I'm comparing them.

 

As for your last question towards DD and Bats, I can think of two options for you:

Read the cross over.

Email Bendis and ask him (I believe he was the author, though I could be wrong, and I'm lazy. Just email the damn writer, lol).

[Guest Darxeth]

If Elektra has been defeated by Bullseye, she will lose to Shiva, that much is true.

 

Besides, isn't the title of this match DD vs Shiva, not Elektra?

I can understand how people can confuse the two. :l

 

In regards to the match, no one has convinced me that DD will defeat Shiva more-so than she can defeat him.

He's had his ass handed to him by an emotionally compromised Cap (which mean the dude wasn't even at his best, Tactics-wise, which happens to be one of his greatest strengths in combat.)

 

Shiva is superior for reasons that have already been repeated.

[Guest Oltobaz]

About DD and Cap, I see DD at a bigger disadvantage than Cap in these scans, for reasons I already pointed out. As for Bullseye, Elektra did come back from the dead, and she got her revenge. 

[Guest Darxeth]

About DD and CAp, I see DD at a bigger disadvantage than Cap in these scans, for reasons I already pointed out. As for Bullseye, Elektra did come back from the dead, and she got her revenge. 

Either way, he was defeated by Cap, which means he will most likely be defeated by Shiva, since he'd be at an even larger disatvantage fighting her, just because of how ruthless and skilled she is. Not to mention her various other abilities, and while DD abilities are awesome, they don't give him the edge he needs to beat her.

 

And yes, that is true, but he killed her. And that counts as a loss..

[AVP vs The Terminator]

If Elektra has been defeated by Bullseye, she will lose to Shiva, that much is true.

This was before Elektra's mental powers were established. Plus, it was Frank Miller. You know how he loves murdering hoes.

[Guest bigballerju]

Losing to Captain America is not a bad thing since Captain America would kick Batman's ass too. So your saying that if Daredevil lost to Captain America that means he can't beat Shiva? Another flawed argument your making. He didn't get his ass handed to him. He actually kicked Captain America's ass and then briefly while deciding he didn't want to do what was needed to beat Cap allowed Captain America to gain the upper hand. Daredevil has made Cap look like a ass in brief encounters  later as well. I even showed you a scan above of Daredevil making a fool out of the Avengers along with taking out Wolverine and other scans.

 

Have you read Elektra in comics? She is just as ruthless as Lady Shiva.

 

I have given you reasons why Daredevil overall would beat Shiva.  His super human senses, physical abilities, ability to improvise on the fly, having his own knowledge of multiple martial art styles (Daredevil knows a lot. Way more then the 3 main ones people only mention, and more. If you don't believe Daredevil would win that's fine but as you can see others have said Daredevil would win. Also Daredevil has faced foes and opponents with more deadly abilities then Shiva. Shiva's only thing she has on Daredevil is her superior martial art abilities.

 

Bullseye defeating Elektra is a flawed arguement as to why she could lose if that's one of you reasons why she would win. Batman has lost to people less skilled them him (Which Methos even said himself in the post above where I mentioned the link you brought up). Lady Shiva lost to Cassadra Cain who lost to Tim Drake and Tim Drake killed Lady Shiva while he was on that drug in the second fight. Bring up who they lost to doesn't really prove anything.

 

Lady Shiva's only advantage is being a superior Martial Artist and assassin. Daredevil has fought people superior to him before in Martial Arts or abilities. Iron-Fist and Black Panther are good examples of the first as far as H2H goes.

[Guest Oltobaz]

To Darxeth,

 

Well, no, read the textboxes, DD problems didn't pertain to this fight. He just wasn't on top of his game. As for Elektra, I'm not disputing her initial defeat to Bullseye, then again, Bullseye is actually pretty dangerous himself, and she wasn't as good as she got later on in her career. She never stopped training, to say the least..

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

Shiva and Elektra are not comparable...

 

Truth! Shiva has never had a really bad movie made about her.

[Guest Oltobaz]

That's true

[Guest Darxeth]

A lot of you are missing the point.

 

Daredevil is inconsistent. Which is why I keep repeating the same things over and over, in an attempt to allow you to realize that for yourselves.

 

Shiva knows how to win consistently, which is important..

DD is skilled at fighting, just not as Skilled as Shiva by a wide margin.

Shiva is more ruthless than DD.

She is wiser thand DD.

She is good at improvising, although not as good.

She is more insightful than DD.

She is more experienced than DD.

She's defeated people who are far more athletic than herself, so DD's athleticism is moot.

 

 

Regardless how the fight was going, the end result was the same. Cap won. Period.

DD couldn't even pick himself up off of the ground. 

And no, Cap wouldn't "kick Batman's ass" in a straight up h2h fight. It'd be close, and Cap would win, but he wouldn't dominate him.

[Guest Dinsdale Piranha]

I don't think DD vs. Cap bears on this at all. He's a completely different kind of fighter than Shiva. 

 

When Iron Fist first fought Captain America he said: "His technique is basic but his speed and power are incredible."

 

Shiva is very strong for someone her size, but her strength is nothing compared to Cap's. She's closer to him in speed but I'd bet on his reflexes over hers and he's certainly a much faster runner. Cap's fighting style is a little like DD's in that it relies heavily on acrobatics and being in constant motion. 

 

Fighting a big, strong man with basic technique and an eclectic / acrobatic style is so different than fighting a small woman with highly sophisticated techniques that I don't think you can learn much from one that applies to the other.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

I was only participating in the whole "Shiva >>> Elektra" thing. As you may have guessed, I disagree. Still, it has no bearing on Shiva vs DD so... BAI

[Guest Darxeth]

Fair enough gentlemen.

[Guest Oltobaz]

A lot of you are missing the point.

 

Daredevil is inconsistent. Which is why I keep repeating the same things over and over, in an attempt to allow you to realize that for yourselves.

 

Shiva knows how to win consistently, which is important..

DD is skilled at fighting, just not as Skilled as Shiva by a wide margin.

Shiva is more ruthless than DD.

She is wiser thand DD.

She is good at improvising, although not as good.

She is more insightful than DD.

She is more experienced than DD.

She's defeated people who are far more athletic than herself, so DD's athleticism is moot.

 

 

Regardless how the fight was going, the end result was the same. Cap won. Period.

DD couldn't even pick himself up off of the ground. 

And no, Cap wouldn't "kick Batman's ass" in a straight up h2h fight. It'd be close, and Cap would win, but he wouldn't dominate him.

 

As far as DD vs Shiva, I could refer you to posts I already made, I certainly don't see things going the same way. Cap against DD, in these scans, demonstrate nothing, DD being at a bigger disadvantage than Cap in this particular fights. Other fights have shown DD fighting Cap to a standstill, battling several Avengers all at once, standing his own against Doom, etc...  

[C.T.]

Heh just for the record, Elektra is not the best female martial artist. Gamora/Mantis etc come to mind. Now as for female human martial artists...she's up there.

 

Just saiyan. Carry on.

[Guest Oltobaz]

Yes, I'm well aware of Gamora, which is why I only referred Elektra as the best human female. Mantis was pretty tough too, but Gamora is supposed to be the "most dangerous woman in the galaxy". They could have pit them against each other, during the Skrulls saga maybe, might have been a good read.

[Guest Darxeth]

As far as DD vs Shiva, I could refer you to posts I already made, I certainly don't see things going the same way. Cap against DD, in these scans, demonstrate nothing, DD being at a bigger disadvantage than Cap in this particular fights. Other fights have shown DD fighting Cap to a standstill, battling several Avengers all at once, standing his own against Doom, etc...  

 

 

 

DD is skilled at fighting, just not as Skilled as Shiva by a wide margin.

Shiva is more ruthless than DD.

She is wiser than DD.

She is good at improvising, although not as good.

She is more insightful than DD.

She is more experienced than DD.

She's defeated people who are far more athletic than herself, so DD's athleticism is moot.

[Dark Spider-man]

Heh just for the record, Elektra is not the best female martial artist. Gamora/Mantis etc come to mind. Now as for female human martial artists...she's up there.

 

Just saiyan. Carry on.

True dat, sir and Moondragon too.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Captain America would by no means stomp Batman in pure h2h. He would win, but it would be extremely tough.

[Guest Oltobaz]

DD is skilled at fighting, just not as Skilled as Shiva by a wide margin.

Shiva is more ruthless than DD.

She is wiser than DD.

She is good at improvising, although not as good.

She is more insightful than DD.

She is more experienced than DD.

She's defeated people who are far more athletic than herself, so DD's athleticism is moot.

She's not more insightful, and she's not wiser either. Let's just say they have different appreciations of the world, and leave it at that. As for your other remarks, I can't help but notice you quoted yourself. I'll return the courtesy, and shall refer you to post # 29, paragraph #3. Food for thought.

[Guest Oltobaz]

Captain America would by no means stomp Batman in pure h2h. He would win, but it would be extremely tough.

 

Agreed. Bruce himself would agree, if we're to look at the cross overs. Definitely not a stomp.

[Guest thanosisawesome]

Agreed. Bruce himself would agree, if we're to look at the cross overs. Definitely not a stomp.

 

We agree, but remember, crossovers aren't canon. And give Batman gadgets, it's a whole 'nother story.

[Guest bigballerju]

DD is skilled at fighting, just not as Skilled as Shiva by a wide margin.

Shiva is more ruthless than DD.

She is wiser than DD.

She is good at improvising, although not as good.

She is more insightful than DD.

She is more experienced than DD.

She's defeated people who are far more athletic than herself, so DD's athleticism is moot.

Daredevil can be ruthless when he needs to be. His fights with Punisher, Wolverine, Bullseye,and others show that. As far as more insightful that's debatable and the same thing for smarter since Daredevil has defeated more powerful foes. Foes like members of the Sinister Six and Mr.Hyde where being smart in those battles is required for sure. Your correct on everything else though. So I will give you that.

 

We agree, but remember, crossovers aren't canon. And give Batman gadgets, it's a whole 'nother story.

JLA vs Avengers is canon Pre-Flashpoint. That's the main and official one we know of.

[Guest Oltobaz]

To Thanos is Awesome:

 

They're what if stories, essentially, with characters used in characters, from the very people who write said characters in canon stories, so we can base our observations on these. It's the closest thing to canon we're gonna get anyways. 

 

I certainly agree, give Bats access to his utility belt and things get more even, though, to be fair, Steve should have access to his shield as well. As far as pure h2h, Cap would win, after a long, exhausting fight, even for a Super Soldier such as he.

[Guest Darxeth]

This is what I love about this site.

There's no hostility between most of the users.

We're all just debating things and yeah, some of us disagree with each other, but we're all civilized.

Good deal.