Match 11548 Darkseid and Thanos vs. The Silver Surfer and Doctor Manhattan

[baneblade]

First of all, if you recall my first post, I said if Surfer was blood-lusted, he could take out Seid and Thanos, he has the power to. So that whole thing about Surfer's wavering mindset or whatever doesn't even tie in with my argument.

 

Again, prove that Seid outclasses Surfer in power. If we go on a blow for blow capability basis- surfer outclasses both in speed, strength, energy projection, durability, etc. etc.

 

See my reply to Legacy about the concentration. Besides, even if he needs focus, he far outclasses both in raw speed, just avoid them for a while, scope it out, and go back in and destroy.

 

Him beating Aegis and Tenebrous happened at the end of Annihilation Wave, but as I mentioned he had to use The crunch to beat them. However, under his own power, he still held and stood up to them. A pretty insane feat since they're stronger than a Universal Entity, putting them above Eternity itself.

 

I don't think any of those feats have been done in a near death state. Besides, whatever desperation Surfer has, is countered by the fact that physically, he was still near death. If you get shot in the arm, and you have a sudden surge in adrenaline because of desperation, well, you're still not going to be able to use that arm, because physically, it is incapacitated.

 

The LT doesn't have a set feat because in Marvel cosmic entities don't interfere in anything. The OAA has almost never been directly involved in anything. Hell, its hardly ever mentioned. Meanwhile The Presence gets involved in all kinds of stuff, even being in the central role of some storylines. That doesn't mean that The Presence is stronger than the OAA, they're equal on the hierarchy. Similarly, the LT outclasses The Source on the Hierarchy. In DC, the Source is just above the Old Gods, this because the Old Gods were able to fracture the Source. This puts The Source far below the likes of the LT, who is second on the cosmic Hierarchy.

 

- Simple answer to the outclassing thing:

1) Greater feats - Inherently putting the universe at stake, changing it forever; singlehandedly standing upto his own maker (Of course, you are debating both, I am only stating them, again), but the next one is the one that I have been arguing on, and you really don't have a footing on:

2) Much much shorter list of embarassments and fallibilities (Most of these happened while Surfer was well, pure Surfer)

Also, speeding off, improvising, and speeding back with big guns intact? Not beside Seid and Thanos' decimating the landscape. Plus, you really think that Thanos won't see or expect that? (even if Seid doesn't right away) These are two devious beings who don't go into battles half cocked.

 

 

- As for LT and Source comparisons again, the Voice also doesnot interject into the affairs of the regular universe. Having no 'set feat' doesnot an excuse make. Can you perhaps show an instant or scribe comment that states that LT can spawn life, design, re-design, annihilate it? I know you can't, because there isn't an instant like that. Once again, Source creates, empowers, decides, judges, re-fashions, raises etc. He is not subject to jursidictions in his universe, LT is. Plus, the Source, per Starlin, in present state is not what 'he or it was'. It is reinvented, improvised and therefore the drastic steps to erase the 'New Gods' and establish another domain. Some set comments of the past publications even saw it as more of a creator, that did same, then observed only. Newer published content and relative comments bordered around the Source's shift in plan, and gradual interjection in events, along with a more conscious, amped up method. This is not the old world Source. This is a Source that was either metamorphosized for the New Gods. I know again, you probably won't see it that way, but simply looking at the events of then and now, begins putting the pieces together.

 

Again, Force, I am only looking at history, feats, aversion of pitfalls, and of course, primarily, Thanos' and Surfer's tainted, PIS ridden history. These are things you could conjecture on, but not deny or see it your way.

 

- Again, you name two entities, that I just don't see as stronger than a 100% Galactus. I think bro Sirmethos explained it quite well. I will add to it: The two who lost, and are 'mis-interpretted in terms of power' are not as smart either, not by miles, as are Seid and Thanos, especially together. Again, you underestimate brains, and either refuse, or missed covering all angles.

 

- Being shot in the arm is a completely different story. That is impairment to muscle, tendons. Getting blasted on an impervious hide is quite another. I am sure, Surfer had use of all his 'schematics' in all of his outings.

[C.T.]

He hates me, and so far he hasn't told me WHY, only repeating "you are an idiot" like a broken record.

 

 

 

...

 

Are you really that stupid? It should be clear that the reason he hates you(If he even does, I don't know) is because you are an idiot. Is that not clear?

 

I particularly don't care one way or the other about you.

[Guest Redemption X]

"You are an idiot" is not contructive criticism.

 

If you are calling me an idiot, you need a reason why.

[kainboa]

"You are an idiot" is not contructive criticism.

 

If you are calling me an idiot, you need a reason why.

 

In my case, the reason why I keep calling you an idiot, is because you've fairly consistently acted like an idiot, using faulty logic and stupid reasons for your arguments.

 

While I can't know for sure that this is also the case for Methos, I'm relatively certain that it is so, and in that case, giving a reason isn't really needed, since you have already been given the reason several times before, and yet you still continue doing the exact same thing.

 

To finish off, a slightly modified quote from Forest Gump. "Idiot is, as idiot does."

[Guest Darxeth]

Ah, after a few days of being away from the internet, I enjoy being back.

[Guest sirmethos]

That doesn't make you any less of a bullying, rude, inconsiderate jackass. Try treating people in real life the same way you treat people here, and see how far you go. Do you even have friends in real life, or have you alienated them all with your insults?

 

You can't go around like insulting everyone, you know.

 

I treat people in real life exactly as I treat people online. I.e. if people are acting like idiots, I call them idiots

And I don't insult everyone, only those that acts in a way so that they earn it.

 

But I only did it once, after this whole argument overwhelmed me.

 

sirmethos does it ALL THE TIME, with zero justification.

 

He didn't review my last batch of matches, he just gave me Fs on all of them without a proper review, just to spite me.

 

He hates me, and so far he hasn't told me WHY, only repeating "you are an idiot" like a broken record.

 

And still, the rules apply for everyone. If I'm not allowed to insult baneblade, then sirmethos is not allowed to insult me.

1. No, I don't do it "all the time", only when people actually act like idiots.

2. No, I didn't give you F's on your last batch of matches. In fact, I haven't rated any of your matches since before the whole mess with FoxFingers, and the last of your matches I rated(which was by the old system) got an "It's Ok."

3. No, I don't hate you, you are a random guy online, you are physically incapable of doing anything that would actually make me hate you. You do however, constantly wave your ignorance around, and I continue to call you on it whenever you do.

 

 

And finally, I have not given "zero justification", in fact, I have on several occasions pointed out exactly what the idiocy in your posts are. You simply ignore it and continue to act with the same mindless idiocy.

 

To tell you what I've told hundreds of people before(even several on EF), if you don't like being called an idiot, then don't act like one. It's not that difficult.

 

 

[Guest anu]

-

[baneblade]

Part reference to quote from Anu, and other various posts. First of all, guys, lets keep the respect. Not saying who did what, but lets all keep the respect.

 

Secondly: I don't know. I think it is more subjective, that it is absolute or direct. I do not know how Sirmethos rolls, or that he has been suspended before(?), or what he did or said. I am also not here often, but usually just pick an interesting match or two to debate on, rather than go to various posts. Not saying I do that out of deliberation, but I do so as time permits me. But even in those few instances of debate, i have seen Sirmethos' replies or posts in matches and I have found myself disagreeing on opinions here and there, but quite a lot of times, his posts make sense. I do not know if I am standing apart from the crowd, but I saw it fit to try and defend what I see as OK. I didn't see Sirmethos attacking with an adage or statement that was meant to aggravate, but I did see him do so if he was aggravated. Hence, there you go, a different option. And bro Anu, you should have left the pot shots out of it. Liek saying: 'Don't know what he does or he's around here so much...' Purely subjective bro. I know he's not here 'All the time', so lets not try to opine as such. I have disagreed with him before a few times, if not many, and he never disrespected me nor I him. So, a varied opinion. Again, lets keep the respect guys.

[Guest sirmethos]

-snip-

 

"I know you guys let Sirmethos back after whatever he did to get banned yet i can tell you this, its no fun trying to have a debate with someone who believes he is totally incapable of ever being wrong, is openly arrogant,"

 

You seem to have difficulty reading(or possibly understanding), english. I have, on several occasions(pretty much every time I've been in a debate with you, among other times), said that I am always willing to be convinced by evidence and logic. To this day, you have never provided even a single piece of evidence to back up your various ridiculous claims, in any of the debates we have had.

 

"He goes to unfathomable levels to protect the location of his IP address for whatever reason for fear of being found I guess"

 

Again with the trouble reading. You seem to have a thing for waving your idiocy and ignorance around.

1. I did not go to "unfathomable levels". I used a simple proxy to get around a ban, because it was easier, and faster, than changing my own IP.

2. Even while using a proxy, I openly offered to give my IP if the admins wanted it.

 

"Methos may know what he knows yet he doesn't seem to have the ability or understanding to let it go when it should be let go. He tries to be perfect and prove that he knows more than you no matter what you say. Overall that's just tough to get along with because in a debate you at least have to agree to disagree yet methos can't do that."

 

I've never claimed, or tried, to be perfect. In fact, when I have occasionally made a mistake, I own up to it and apologize for it. However, when someone(like yourself in pretty much every debate we have been in), stubbornly clings to a flawed opinion, then yes, I keep going. I do not "agree to disagree", when the other person is wrong. There have been more than a few debates where the issue has not been so clean cut, where I have agreed to disagree(my debate with Ruinus, about the nature of Evil, springs to mind as an example).

 

I don't try to prove that I know more than others, I primarily debate to 'fix' the ignorance of others, and to educate people.

 

 

 

That said, do keep making posts like this. I haven't laughed this hard in quite a while, and it's always fun seeing you wave your idiocy around like a flag.

[Guest Darxeth]

Idk man, I'm glad Sirmethos is back. Why?

Because it's as Nova once said: "Conflict is the spice of life."

 

Edit: Also, there have been several occasions where methos has stated that he could be wrong.

[Guest anu]

Well the arrogance of sirmethos is back..sad...

[Guest sirmethos]

I never left, I just didn't post for a while.

[Guest Darxeth]

I took it that way.

 

I didn't even know you had been banned.

[Guest anu]

Oh well...it was bliss at the time

[xLEGACYx]

Oh well...it was bliss at the time

and you wonder why you get made fun of

[Guest Darxeth]

I actually enjoy it more now.

[Guest force_echo]

- Simple answer to the outclassing thing:

1) Greater feats - Inherently putting the universe at stake, changing it forever; singlehandedly standing upto his own maker (Of course, you are debating both, I am only stating them, again), but the next one is the one that I have been arguing on, and you really don't have a footing on:

2) Much much shorter list of embarassments and fallibilities (Most of these happened while Surfer was well, pure Surfer)

Also, speeding off, improvising, and speeding back with big guns intact? Not beside Seid and Thanos' decimating the landscape. Plus, you really think that Thanos won't see or expect that? (even if Seid doesn't right away) These are two devious beings who don't go into battles half cocked.

 

 

- As for LT and Source comparisons again, the Voice also doesnot interject into the affairs of the regular universe. Having no 'set feat' doesnot an excuse make. Can you perhaps show an instant or scribe comment that states that LT can spawn life, design, re-design, annihilate it? I know you can't, because there isn't an instant like that. Once again, Source creates, empowers, decides, judges, re-fashions, raises etc. He is not subject to jursidictions in his universe, LT is. Plus, the Source, per Starlin, in present state is not what 'he or it was'. It is reinvented, improvised and therefore the drastic steps to erase the 'New Gods' and establish another domain. Some set comments of the past publications even saw it as more of a creator, that did same, then observed only. Newer published content and relative comments bordered around the Source's shift in plan, and gradual interjection in events, along with a more conscious, amped up method. This is not the old world Source. This is a Source that was either metamorphosized for the New Gods. I know again, you probably won't see it that way, but simply looking at the events of then and now, begins putting the pieces together.

 

Again, Force, I am only looking at history, feats, aversion of pitfalls, and of course, primarily, Thanos' and Surfer's tainted, PIS ridden history. These are things you could conjecture on, but not deny or see it your way.

 

- Again, you name two entities, that I just don't see as stronger than a 100% Galactus. I think bro Sirmethos explained it quite well. I will add to it: The two who lost, and are 'mis-interpretted in terms of power' are not as smart either, not by miles, as are Seid and Thanos, especially together. Again, you underestimate brains, and either refuse, or missed covering all angles.

 

- Being shot in the arm is a completely different story. That is impairment to muscle, tendons. Getting blasted on an impervious hide is quite another. I am sure, Surfer had use of all his 'schematics' in all of his outings.

@Sirmethos- I'm fairly certain the Primordial Gods were directly stated to be stronger than Galactus, which would make them stronger than Eternity as well.

 

1. They really don't have greater feats. Besides, you haven't refuted the point that Surfer's stated capabilities are much stronger.

2. Please, the next time Omnipotent Thanos doesn't get trounced by his own inability to win, or Darkseid avoids a defeat at the hands of superman, then tell me about embarrassments. What you're doing is taking the best feats of Thanos and Darkseid and the worst of surfer's and comparing them. Surfer has a few bad showings which are complete PIS. But so do those two, Surfer's are more well known because of how incredibly ridiculous they are.

 

What are they going to do if Surfer speeds off? Chase after him? Besides, like I said before, he doesn't need concentration to use his cosmic awareness.

 

Source has a number of other beings more powerful than he is. The LT only has one. The Source answers to the Presence, the Old Gods were able to severely hurt it. noone's ever hurt the LT, no one has ever stood up to it. Again, show me evidence that Source is higher on the cosmic hierarchy than the LT is. You won't, because he's not. It doesn't matter if the LT has used his power or not, he's still more powerful. Also, compared to the OAA, the Voice is more active, taking a direct role in Spectre comics, resurrecting the JSA, The LT is the judge of all realities, he has created and destroyed universes at will. He was about to do it to the 616 Universe in Strange Tales 157, but Dr. Strange convinced him to spare the universe.

 

That's because in a straight up fight, planning ability doesn't count for nearly anything. In a face up with 100% Galactus where Dakrseid can't use any outside power, Darkseid is going to lose no matter how smart he is.

 

It doesn't matter, a dude afflicted with malaria and who is near death with a fever isn't going to be as strong as a full, healthy man, no matter what kind of desperation he has. Like I said before, none of the feats you mentioned were done at near death. He was severely weakened, there's simply no getting around that. You're trying to put up a bullshit argument to discount a perfectly valid feat, I could come up with something similar for Darkseid or Thanos' feats.

[Guest sirmethos]

@Sirmethos- I'm fairly certain the Primordial Gods were directly stated to be stronger than Galactus, which would make them stronger than Eternity as well.

 

No, it wasn't.

 

It was directly stated that Galactus was the one that captured and imprisoned both of them(and killed Diableri, who was more powerful than them).

[xLEGACYx]

@Sirmethos- I'm fairly certain the Primordial Gods were directly stated to be stronger than Galactus, which would make them stronger than Eternity as well.

 

1. They really don't have greater feats. Besides, you haven't refuted the point that Surfer's stated capabilities are much stronger.

2. Please, the next time Omnipotent Thanos doesn't get trounced by his own inability to win, or Darkseid avoids a defeat at the hands of superman, then tell me about embarrassments. What you're doing is taking the best feats of Thanos and Darkseid and the worst of surfer's and comparing them. Surfer has a few bad showings which are complete PIS. But so do those two, Surfer's are more well known because of how incredibly ridiculous they are.

 

What are they going to do if Surfer speeds off? Chase after him? Besides, like I said before, he doesn't need concentration to use his cosmic awareness.

 

Source has a number of other beings more powerful than he is. The LT only has one. The Source answers to the Presence, the Old Gods were able to severely hurt it. noone's ever hurt the LT, no one has ever stood up to it. Again, show me evidence that Source is higher on the cosmic hierarchy than the LT is. You won't, because he's not. It doesn't matter if the LT has used his power or not, he's still more powerful. Also, compared to the OAA, the Voice is more active, taking a direct role in Spectre comics, resurrecting the JSA, The LT is the judge of all realities, he has created and destroyed universes at will. He was about to do it to the 616 Universe in Strange Tales 157, but Dr. Strange convinced him to spare the universe.

 

That's because in a straight up fight, planning ability doesn't count for nearly anything. In a face up with 100% Galactus where Dakrseid can't use any outside power, Darkseid is going to lose no matter how smart he is.

 

It doesn't matter, a dude afflicted with malaria and who is near death with a fever isn't going to be as strong as a full, healthy man, no matter what kind of desperation he has. Like I said before, none of the feats you mentioned were done at near death. He was severely weakened, there's simply no getting around that. You're trying to put up a bullshit argument to discount a perfectly valid feat, I could come up with something similar for Darkseid or Thanos' feats.

All that need be said already has. You keep coming up with feats that Surfer need the Crunch or some other power up to perform.

 

I will say it again...

 

Nothing is stopping him from creating radon BUT what is stopping Seid from simply ripping the power cosmic from Surfer and leaving plain Norrin Radd in a pocket dimension?

 

Whats stopping Seid and Thanos from absorbing the Power Cosmic from Surfer? No matter how much control he has Seid can steal it away if need be. On another account he created Strayne which was just as powerful as Surfer. So how is it that Darkseid would lose to Surfer when he himself can create beings just as strong as Surfer.

 

On a side note it take Surfer some concentration to focus and find energy signatures that would reveal Seid's only weakness. Even then Seid is not finished. In Final Crisis when Batman shot him with the radon bullet it only weakend him. It took both Flash tricking the Black Racer into running into Seid to kill him.

 

The utter stupidity of Surfer actually being able to defeat Seid or Thanos in a straight up fight is dumb. In all ways Seid outclasses Surfer.

 

Seid literally has every power Surfer has plus more and to a greater scale. So it amazes me that you say Surfer can win here. With the combined cleverness of Thanos and Seid makes Surfer's chances of winning very slim. Not to mention there combined power.

 

As for Dr. Manhattan, he is powerful but he has no experience with matters of this proportion from his world. He would simply be amazed at his new findings.

[C.T.]

Idk man, I'm glad Sirmethos is back. Why?

Because it's as Nova once said: "Conflict is the spice of life."

 

 

 

Ooh what's this? Someone quoted me?

 

Awesome.

[Guest force_echo]

All that need be said already has. You keep coming up with feats that Surfer need the Crunch or some other power up to perform.

 

I will say it again...

 

Nothing is stopping him from creating radon BUT what is stopping Seid from simply ripping the power cosmic from Surfer and leaving plain Norrin Radd in a pocket dimension?

 

Whats stopping Seid and Thanos from absorbing the Power Cosmic from Surfer? No matter how much control he has Seid can steal it away if need be. On another account he created Strayne which was just as powerful as Surfer. So how is it that Darkseid would lose to Surfer when he himself can create beings just as strong as Surfer.

 

On a side note it take Surfer some concentration to focus and find energy signatures that would reveal Seid's only weakness. Even then Seid is not finished. In Final Crisis when Batman shot him with the radon bullet it only weakend him. It took both Flash tricking the Black Racer into running into Seid to kill him.

 

The utter stupidity of Surfer actually being able to defeat Seid or Thanos in a straight up fight is dumb. In all ways Seid outclasses Surfer.

 

Seid literally has every power Surfer has plus more and to a greater scale. So it amazes me that you say Surfer can win here. With the combined cleverness of Thanos and Seid makes Surfer's chances of winning very slim. Not to mention there combined power.

 

As for Dr. Manhattan, he is powerful but he has no experience with matters of this proportion from his world. He would simply be amazed at his new findings.

@Sirmethos: How is Diableri more powerful than them? I thought all Primoel Gods were of the same power. Besides, they defeated Galactus in Annihilation.

 

@Legacy: Are you retarded? I'm serious, because you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend basic facts. Noone can rip the power cosmic from Galactus or Silver Surfer, that's why Thanos had to have their permission in Annihilation, they completely control the power cosmic flowing within their bodies, so noone can take it out of their bodies without their consent. Prove Strayne is just as strong as surfer. Isn't Strayne's power Time manipulation? Yeah, Surfer can do that too.

 

Prove that it takes concentration, because when I saw it in the comics, it was pretty instant. Using cosmic awareness is just like thinking, it's just a passive ability, you don't have to concentrate to use it, especially since Surfer has been using it for a long time. Also, if he needs more time, it isn't hard to stay away from someone who's a lot slower than you are. Also, even if he didn't immediately die from the bullet, he was completely incapacitated. From one bullet. Surfer can make an infinite amount. Yeeaaahhhhh.

 

Also, again, since you seem to be too stupid to understand the concept behind the debate, I say for the second time, PROVE that Seid is stronger.

 

Again, the fact that Surfer can generate Radion is the game-breaker here.

[xLEGACYx]

@Sirmethos: How is Diableri more powerful than them? I thought all Primoel Gods were of the same power. Besides, they defeated Galactus in Annihilation.

 

@Legacy: Are you retarded? I'm serious, because you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend basic facts. Noone can rip the power cosmic from Galactus or Silver Surfer, that's why Thanos had to have their permission in Annihilation, they completely control the power cosmic flowing within their bodies, so noone can take it out of their bodies without their consent. Prove Strayne is just as strong as surfer. Isn't Strayne's power Time manipulation? Yeah, Surfer can do that too.

 

Prove that it takes concentration, because when I saw it in the comics, it was pretty instant. Using cosmic awareness is just like thinking, it's just a passive ability, you don't have to concentrate to use it, especially since Surfer has been using it for a long time. Also, if he needs more time, it isn't hard to stay away from someone who's a lot slower than you are. Also, even if he didn't immediately die from the bullet, he was completely incapacitated. From one bullet. Surfer can make an infinite amount. Yeeaaahhhhh.

 

Also, again, since you seem to be too stupid to understand the concept behind the debate, I say for the second time, PROVE that Seid is stronger.

 

Again, the fact that Surfer can generate Radion is the game-breaker here.

Resorting to name calling does nothing but prove you are incompetent and grapsing at straws. Everything you provide has either been with Surfer powered up by something, a parallel universe, or greatly exaggerated from what actually happened.

 

It doesnt show four panels of Surfer concentrating in the comic because that would be boring and a waste of space. To use the Power Cosmic Surfer must concentrate. Its stated in all databases and shown in comics.

 

As far as taking the power cosmic out of there bodies, you are right about Galactus but it has been done to Surfer and will be here by a foe much stronger. As far as that goes.

 

Showing Seid's power and how it is greater than Surfer here is all that need be shown again....

here is darkseid using his true power in battle with the source

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also state again what will Surfer do when side seperates the power cosmic and Norrin Radd, leaving him stranded in a pocket universe.

 

Seid could simply de evolve Surfer into plain Norrin Radd.

 

You cant tell me a being thats suppose to be all powerful and gets restrained by a simple human can beat someone on the power level of Thanos or Seid. Even if Seid could (not gonna happen) he has to deal with Thanos as well. Both are extremely smarter.

 

Surfer loses 10/10 times

[Guest force_echo]

Resorting to name calling does nothing but prove you are incompetent and grapsing at straws. Everything you provide has either been with Surfer powered up by something, a parallel universe, or greatly exaggerated from what actually happened.

 

It doesnt show four panels of Surfer concentrating in the comic because that would be boring and a waste of space. To use the Power Cosmic Surfer must concentrate. Its stated in all databases and shown in comics.

 

As far as taking the power cosmic out of there bodies, you are right about Galactus but it has been done to Surfer and will be here by a foe much stronger. As far as that goes.

 

Showing Seid's power and how it is greater than Surfer here is all that need be shown again....

here is darkseid using his true power in battle with the source

 

I also state again what will Surfer do when side seperates the power cosmic and Norrin Radd, leaving him stranded in a pocket universe.

 

Seid could simply de evolve Surfer into plain Norrin Radd.

 

You cant tell me a being thats suppose to be all powerful and gets restrained by a simple human can beat someone on the power level of Thanos or Seid. Even if Seid could (not gonna happen) he has to deal with Thanos as well. Both are extremely smarter.

 

Surfer loses 10/10 times

You're the one who started the name calling first, which is all the more ironic. Thanks for that, I needed the laugh.

 

Oh really? Where's your proof that using cosmic awareness requires intense concentration? Because I looked on two different databases: Marvel wiki and the official Marvel Universe and they didn't say anything about that. Besides, if he needs time, he can make it by simply avoiding his foes.

 

Yeah, before his upgrade Dr. Doom stole his power, after his upgrade with Galactus, its explicitly said in Annihilation and I believe in a couple databases that no one can drain Surfer's power, because he is in full control of the power cosmic.

 

You know what's funny? You claiming all of my feats are based on Surfer on some kind of powerup, and then showing scans of Darkseid fighting the Source while he was powered up on the souls of the fallen New Gods from the Source Wall. I repeat, thanks for the laughs, I haven't debated against someone this incompetent for a while.

 

Surfer can also automatically supress the powers of superhumans. Also, he can travel in between dimensions, so leaving him stranded in a pocket universe wouldn't really do much.

 

And Surfer can devolve Darkseid. He can also evolve himself if Darkseid tries to use that power on him. Surfer can accelerate evolution on a planetary scale.

 

Are you seriously telling me that Darkseid will win against a being who can manufacture a limitless amount of a substance fatal to Darkseid? Are you telling me that Thanos will win against a being who outclasses him in power in every possible way?

[Guest sirmethos]

It's amusing how you both seem to be extremely selective in what feats you use. You also seem to randomly mix and match, between using stated capabilities, and feats. Pick one and go with it.

 

Example: Devolving life(both), Nigh-Unlimited strength(Surfer), Cosmic awareness making him capable of sensing the weaknesses of the opponents(surfer). All examples of stated capabilities that have been used in the debate so far. But if we look at the feats of the characters, then they, especially the surfer, fall far short of that. With unlimited strength, Surfer should never be able to be beaten in physical combat, yet exactly that has happened on more than one occasion. With the cosmic awareness, he should never be able to be defeated by less powerful opponents(or even opponents of anywhere close to equal in power), yet Surfer has been defeated by opponents like that on several occasions. With their ability to devolve any lifeform, neither of them should be defeated by any opponent that that power would actually work on, yet again, both of them have in the comic, been defeated on more than one occasion(not to mention that devolving wouldn't work on either of them).

 

If you go by their stated capabilities, then Darkseid wins, relatively easily.

 

If you go by feats, then Darkseid still wins, though with more difficulty.

 

It's (also)amusing, that the people defending Darkseid, don't actually use his more impressive feats, instead of stubbornly clinging to the ones that are mostly useless in this debate.

 

1. Darkseid provided at least 1/5 of the power, to destroy an entire universe(the other 4 were Orion, Etrigan, High Father and Dr. Fate). This is far beyond anything Silver Surfer has managed(without external power-ups).

2. Darkseid actually hurt the Spectre, Imperiex Prime and the COIE Anti-Monitor. My memory about the Surfer's feats might be off here, but I believe that is also more impressive than anything Surfer has managed.

3. Darkseid proved more powerful than Odin and Ares combined(Darkseid and High Father working together, managed to do what High Father, working with Odin and Ares, did not have enough raw power to do, i.e. breaking through the Source Wall).

[xLEGACYx]

You're the one who started the name calling first, which is all the more ironic. Thanks for that, I needed the laugh.

 

First off Redemption X made fun of you and baneblade and I defended you two in my comment towards him. So get your facts straight.

 

Oh really? Where's your proof that using cosmic awareness requires intense concentration? Because I looked on two different databases: Marvel wiki and the official Marvel Universe and they didn't say anything about that. Besides, if he needs time, he can make it by simply avoiding his foes.

 

Because in all the comics Surfer has never been all knowing. He has to take a moment to search the universe (figuratively) for the answer. Also trying concentrating when a beam is chasing you that can erase you from existence.

 

Yeah, before his upgrade Dr. Doom stole his power, after his upgrade with Galactus, its explicitly said in Annihilation and I believe in a couple databases that no one can drain Surfer's power, because he is in full control of the power cosmic.

 

There is quite a difference in cosmic powers between what Doom is capable of and what Darkseid is. He can hit Surfer with his Omega Sanction and erase the power cosmic from Surfer's body. Frankly his power has been drained by lesser beings with less force than what Darkseid can and he is much more adept in cosmic affairs.

 

You know what's funny? You claiming all of my feats are based on Surfer on some kind of powerup, and then showing scans of Darkseid fighting the Source while he was powered up on the souls of the fallen New Gods from the Source Wall. I repeat, thanks for the laughs, I haven't debated against someone this incompetent for a while.

 

The difference is that it is actually part of Darkseid's natural abilities unlike Surfer's. Again with pathetic name calling

 

Surfer can also automatically supress the powers of superhumans. Also, he can travel in between dimensions, so leaving him stranded in a pocket universe wouldn't really do much.

 

Leaving him in a pocket dimension would work considering he would be seperated from the power cosmic with no way to return. You can say it cant be drained but a significantly superior force like Darkseid has the power to do so from his Omega powers alone.

 

And Surfer can devolve Darkseid. He can also evolve himself if Darkseid tries to use that power on him. Surfer can accelerate evolution on a planetary scale.

 

If Surfer was de-evolved he would be plain old Norrin Radd. Therefore he would have no power cosmic making your defense null.

 

Are you seriously telling me that Darkseid will win against a being who can manufacture a limitless amount of a substance fatal to Darkseid? Are you telling me that Thanos will win against a being who outclasses him in power in every possible way?

 

While you are correct that Surfer can make Radion, again he has to concentrate to find that weakness. He wont have the time.

About Thanos you must have missed every battle between them in the 616 universe that Surfer wasnt powered up by some super force.