Match 11548 Darkseid and Thanos vs. The Silver Surfer and Doctor Manhattan

[baneblade]

The difference that I don't take this site seriously, or at least not as seriously as baneblade.

 

Look at the stuff he said: "Thanos should be sans conflictions, at 100%, fully in control of what he is doing. Also, kindly quote example how he demolished a foe stronger, more powerful than him. What you are saying is anti-logic.", "Remember, don't give me some lame opponents, give me credible ones, who are more powerful then Galactus, and feats to match. If one or other is missing, don't bother to state, but do mention so that you didn't because one or the other piece of info.", ""The New Gods are attached to the Source wall, they are 'powered' by it. Also, another instance of PIS is, with derved "New Gods'" souls, any New God doing so would be nighg Perhaps you should read the comic(s) 'carefully'. Moreso, try to visit one of the conventions on a casual basis, and try and speak with a scribe. It will drive you batty, the range of explanations they open when they give an account of a bygone tale.".

 

You wouldn't catch me dead saying stuff as anally-retentive and nerdy as that. My reply would be a long the lines of "Doctor Manhattan wins because he is basically a demigod and he vaporizes Darkseid and Thanos". Something simple and non-nerdy like that.

 

PS. Darkseid loses to Superman because Superman is one of the greatest superheroes ever and he can defeat anyone who threatens Earth. Also, Superman never gives up, unlike the other pussy superheroes who run away like little girls the minute Black Adam or Superboy Prime show up.

 

Hmmm. and I thought that we live in a free world. There is no solution (literally) to your 'concerns'. Seems you are actually more confused than most. So, are you on this site or aren't you? Are you into it by heart, or by mind, or both, or aren't by either, or just by a 'time pass' requirement? Are you instead in need to 'liven up a bit'? I think you should bro.

 

I have said it many times that personal jabs should be kept at bay and the only good time to be had is to comment and opine. Isn't that why we are here? This is an opinion based site? It is, hence nerdy, non-nerdy, driven, non-driven; all sorts come here. If one comments differently than the others, so be it, but should be along the lines of 'considerable' reason. If you do not agree on my comments, sure no prob, but commenting on my method or mindset is quite another thing. Not that I am offended. I have seen worse, honestly; people who just came out and called me names. So, no prob bro. I don;t want you to shange who you are, and i can't, but perhaps I can just do a ferretters due by asking you to leave personal jabs aside. Reasonable request? Hope so bro.

[Guest Hayes]

Wow, Redemption, using the "get a life" line? Just because you are a dumb ass, and people on this site give well thought out replies, doesn't mean they don't have a life. Talk about getting a life, you post on a site where EVERYONE thinks you are an idiot. For the love of god, please keep your foot in your mouth.

[Guest force_echo]

Hmmm, temper. Not good for a fellow feretter. We have walked down this path before where you brought 'personal' into your posts. I will try to remember not to call you bro. Just a habit of giving respect. You don't want it, fine. Lets both be happy.

 

Kindly quote 'instances' where Surfer 'demolished' Thanos. Conditions: Thanos should be sans conflictions, at 100%, fully in control of what he is doing. Also, kindly quote example how he demolished a foe stronger, more powerful than him. What you are saying is anti-logic. You will see what i mean when you begin stating how it happened. Remember, no extras, no tweaks, no conlflictions. Ex: Surfer getting trounced by Rulk: Pure fight without complications or 'extras'.

 

I am not agreeing on Galactus and Source power comparison. Show me 1 instant, where Living Tribunal, or Galactus created an entire universe of super powered beings, or a feat equal to it, and we will go from there. I know there is none, but you go ahead and establish it for all to see right here. Remember, don't give me some lame opponents, give me credible ones, who are more powerful then Galactus, and feats to match. If one or other is missing, don't bother to state, but do mention so that you didn't because one or the other piece of info. was missing.

 

As for your concerns about Seid and Superman. Haven't we already spoken about DC PIS, that Seid can't kill Superman or any kryptonian, for that matter? DC has never explained it too. All that was explained to give Seid some credibility was that on the outset or backdrop, Seid would often harbor plans not to destroy Superman. Also, are you implying Seid has never beaten Superman? The you are wrong.

 

Seid drawing from the Source wall is his given ability, not an 'extra'. The New Gods are attached to the Source wall, they are 'powered' by it. Also, another instance of PIS is, with derved "New Gods'" souls, any New God doing so would be nighg Perhaps you should read the comic(s) 'carefully'. Moreso, try to visit one of the conventions on a casual basis, and try and speak with a scribe. It will drive you batty, the range of explanations they open when they give an account of a bygone tale.

 

In a capsule: Galactus or Tribunal are not 'God', or even 'Demi-God'. They are not 'architects, creators, empowerers or 'sustainers'. That means they are notches below somthing that has powered 'Demi-Gods'. Sorry, that is not a good enoug comparison. Now that is only mentioned again, as you sounded your concern again. And what was the thing you said about Superman intervening on behalf of the Source? You do know what that will apply to a layman just listening? So where is this 'extra' help you are talking about? Did Seid have a partner, a power-up? No. What he did have was a concotion, fully derived by him, in line with the dictates of his character, and powered by his 'life force' with a tinge of anti-life only as an expiremental edge. He didn;t even use it.

 

Go ahead and enlighten us. (Oops, really, typing this instead of the bro I almost called you). !-)

Does he have access to power given by the New Gods in the Second source wall in this match? No, because that's an outside power source. Just because he has the ABILITY to draw on the power doesn't mean it's an outside power source. One of surfer's innate ABILITIES is the power to draw upon The Crunch, but that's still considered an outside power source. His feat of "standing up" to the source is easily disregarded.second of all, the Source empowering every being in the DC Universe is complete speculation. And so what if The LT didn't create the Gods or whatever, it's still more powerful than The Source, and higher up on the cosmic hierarchy. The LT controls the entire Marvel multiverse, making him second to only the OAA.

 

Easily, I can give you a scan, because I remember posting it on one of the Silver surfer matches on here in the past. First of all, Surfer trounces Thanos in power, so it completely makes sense, In fact the time that Thanos beat surfer is the instance that doesn't make sense. In fact, Thanos flat out states Surfer is more powerful than him, and more important as far as place in the Universe is concerned, Mistress Death herself even acknowledged the fact. Hell, even the Living Tribunal itself acknowledged surfer's power, and importance in the universe. It's been directly stated that the power cosmic can do ANYTHING. Surfer can just see Darkseid's weakness, like he did with Gladiator, then act on it.

 

But anyway, the scan, right.

 

 

 

This also shows why Surfer hasn't killed Thanos before, its because killing him would be opening the way for even stronger menaces.

[Guest force_echo]

-Talking out of Ass-

Woah. Redemption X is such a badass. I wish I could be as cool as the guy who has the profile image of a dude dressing up as Rorschach!

[xLEGACYx]

On 5/16/2012 at 11:47 AM, force_echo said:

Does he have access to power given by the New Gods in the Second source wall in this match? No, because that's an outside power source. Just because he has the ABILITY to draw on the power doesn't mean it's an outside power source. One of surfer's innate ABILITIES is the power to draw upon The Crunch, but that's still considered an outside power source. His feat of "standing up" to the source is easily disregarded.second of all, the Source empowering every being in the DC Universe is complete speculation. And so what if The LT didn't create the Gods or whatever, it's still more powerful than The Source, and higher up on the cosmic hierarchy. The LT controls the entire Marvel multiverse, making him second to only the OAA.

 

Easily, I can give you a scan, because I remember posting it on one of the Silver surfer matches on here in the past. First of all, Surfer trounces Thanos in power, so it completely makes sense, In fact the time that Thanos beat surfer is the instance that doesn't make sense. In fact, Thanos flat out states Surfer is more powerful than him, and more important as far as place in the Universe is concerned, Mistress Death herself even acknowledged the fact. Hell, even the Living Tribunal itself acknowledged surfer's power, and importance in the universe. It's been directly stated that the power cosmic can do ANYTHING. Surfer can just see Darkseid's weakness, like he did with Gladiator, then act on it.

 

But anyway, the scan, right.

 

 

 

This also shows why Surfer hasn't killed Thanos before, its because killing him would be opening the way for even stronger menaces.

where is that from? that is not normal Surfer vs normal Thanos. Both characters llok to be from a parallel universe or something.

 

 

 

 

 

darkseid always holds back that's something you'll never under stand.

 

here is darkseid using his true power in battle with the source

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Tired of this]

Darkseid beat Ares so therefore he can beat surfer since Area was considered a bigger threat?? Tell me that sounds like a bag poop

 

Thanos IMO is more durable than DS and Thanos is def more powerful than Surfer, so Dr Manhattan just needs to avoid Thanos while Surfer deals with DS

[baneblade]

Does he have access to power given by the New Gods in the Second source wall in this match? No, because that's an outside power source. Just because he has the ABILITY to draw on the power doesn't mean it's an outside power source. One of surfer's innate ABILITIES is the power to draw upon The Crunch, but that's still considered an outside power source. His feat of "standing up" to the source is easily disregarded.second of all, the Source empowering every being in the DC Universe is complete speculation. And so what if The LT didn't create the Gods or whatever, it's still more powerful than The Source, and higher up on the cosmic hierarchy. The LT controls the entire Marvel multiverse, making him second to only the OAA.

 

Easily, I can give you a scan, because I remember posting it on one of the Silver surfer matches on here in the past. First of all, Surfer trounces Thanos in power, so it completely makes sense, In fact the time that Thanos beat surfer is the instance that doesn't make sense. In fact, Thanos flat out states Surfer is more powerful than him, and more important as far as place in the Universe is concerned, Mistress Death herself even acknowledged the fact. Hell, even the Living Tribunal itself acknowledged surfer's power, and importance in the universe. It's been directly stated that the power cosmic can do ANYTHING. Surfer can just see Darkseid's weakness, like he did with Gladiator, then act on it.

 

But anyway, the scan, right.

 

 

 

This also shows why Surfer hasn't killed Thanos before, its because killing him would be opening the way for even stronger menaces.

 

I had a feeling you would cite this and try to push it as a legit Thanos Surfer battle. It would have been more honest of you to give the backdrop of how this folded. Even if you didn't, things are in a context where one look tells anyone, even a comic casual fan, that things are out of place in these images. Did Surfer and Thanos have their powers? If they did, lets say, why fight using swords and knives? Is that the way Thanos and Surfer wage their conventional battles?

 

 

This scan illustrates conventional Surfer and Thanos settings. It is also typical how it ends.

 

Sorry, I know your displayed example is not a classic, normal settings, 100% battle sequence. If anything, it is otherwise. Good try though, but not a convincing, and rather 'otherworldly' layout. Why not explain why they were using swords and pans n' stuff? It would only help clarify things for you. Typical Thanos or typical surfer fights: expense of power, the immediate and realistic approach, eflecting the power they each yield.

 

As for your concern of Seid 'tapping' into the Source, sorry, no go. New Gods' nature is such that when a New God is expended, the SOurce Wall tethers the souls, and consequent power. Only the 'powerfu' New Gods, or ones supplemented by the Force can weild that power in spades, ala Seid. It is their nature, it is not an extra. In fact, Starlin's account of the ongoings was quite muffled too, as Seid should instead, have been immediately powered due to the suden tilt in energies, and re-channeling thereof. I guess we are two folks looking at the same thing in different ways.

 

Tribunal < Source. I never said it due to Source 'empowering or creating the DC Universe'. I said he is abolsute creator, fashioner, empowerer and master of his own universe, a complete 'New Gods'' universe and a powerful universe at that. Tribaunal isn't. Galactus isn't. They are subjective, Source is not.

 

Check out Legacy's scans for a 'regular' conventional Seid against the Source. That is impressive.

 

Plus Force, not to put you down or anything, but advocating somone's 'rudeness' almost puts one in the same league. Too bad, standards have come so far down. Again, I am not playing Holier than thou, cos' I am not. What I don;t understand is what happened to good ol' decency?

[Guest MarvelFan15]

For the record, IIRC, that scan is after Doctor Strange shunts the souls of both Surfer and Thanos (both were willing to undergo this spell) to an alternate dimension. Norrin even starts off the fight by trying to use the Power Cosmic, but to no avail, since the entire point of Stephen sending them to that plane was so that they could settle their differences on an even footing.

 

So, yeah, context.

 

 

EDIT: Here are the scans.

 

1) http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Doctor%20Strange/?action=view&current=strangedimension.jpg

 

2) http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Doctor%20Strange/?action=view&current=strangeastral1.jpg

 

3) http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Doctor%20Strange/?action=view&current=strangeastral2.jpg

[Guest Redemption X]

To answer your question, as Megatron once put it:

 

"Why? Why CBUB? Why, of all the sites on the internet, do I decide to revitalize my membership to the one whose record of stupidity and bullying is legend? Because I'm an idiot, that's why!"

[C.T.]

Then go. No one's stopping you from leaving agustinaldo.

[Guest sirmethos]

To answer your question, as Megatron once put it:

 

"Why? Why CBUB? Why, of all the sites on the internet, do I decide to revitalize my membership to the one whose record of stupidity and bullying is legend? Because I'm an idiot, that's why!"

 

Glad you're finally starting to realize it yourself.

[Guest force_echo]

I had a feeling you would cite this and try to push it as a legit Thanos Surfer battle. It would have been more honest of you to give the backdrop of how this folded. Even if you didn't, things are in a context where one look tells anyone, even a comic casual fan, that things are out of place in these images. Did Surfer and Thanos have their powers? If they did, lets say, why fight using swords and knives? Is that the way Thanos and Surfer wage their conventional battles?

 

 

This scan illustrates conventional Surfer and Thanos settings. It is also typical how it ends.

 

Sorry, I know your displayed example is not a classic, normal settings, 100% battle sequence. If anything, it is otherwise. Good try though, but not a convincing, and rather 'otherworldly' layout. Why not explain why they were using swords and pans n' stuff? It would only help clarify things for you. Typical Thanos or typical surfer fights: expense of power, the immediate and realistic approach, eflecting the power they each yield.

 

As for your concern of Seid 'tapping' into the Source, sorry, no go. New Gods' nature is such that when a New God is expended, the SOurce Wall tethers the souls, and consequent power. Only the 'powerfu' New Gods, or ones supplemented by the Force can weild that power in spades, ala Seid. It is their nature, it is not an extra. In fact, Starlin's account of the ongoings was quite muffled too, as Seid should instead, have been immediately powered due to the suden tilt in energies, and re-channeling thereof. I guess we are two folks looking at the same thing in different ways.

 

Tribunal < Source. I never said it due to Source 'empowering or creating the DC Universe'. I said he is abolsute creator, fashioner, empowerer and master of his own universe, a complete 'New Gods'' universe and a powerful universe at that. Tribaunal isn't. Galactus isn't. They are subjective, Source is not.

 

Check out Legacy's scans for a 'regular' conventional Seid against the Source. That is impressive.

 

Plus Force, not to put you down or anything, but advocating somone's 'rudeness' almost puts one in the same league. Too bad, standards have come so far down. Again, I am not playing Holier than thou, cos' I am not. What I don;t understand is what happened to good ol' decency?

This is completely retarded. No New gods have died, there is no source wall, this is just Seid and just Surfer. There is no possible way that Seid can draw on the power of fallen New gods, which is an external power source BY EVERY DEFINITION. It doesn't matter if he has the innate ability to draw on them or not, the bottom line is HE'S. GETTING. POWER. FROM. SOMEWHERE. ELSE. Also, Legacy's scans are from Death of The New Gods, so no, he's not conventional. Again, if Seid is allowed to use the power of fallen New Gods, Surfer is allowed to use The Crunch. At least The Crunch doesn't depend on an even that hasn't even happened yet, its always there.

 

The Living Tribunal could create stuff too, he could literally create whole universes, easily. I'm not sure what about "LT is multiversal, and Source is Universal" you don't get, but I don't think I can break it down any simpler. LT is just plain higher up on the cosmic hierarchy. That's literally all there is too it. It doesn't matter if the Source created this shit, or the LT did that, the LT just plain has more power. The LT is second in line, I bet the freaking Spectre could take out the Source. It's not subjective at all, its completely objective, its a simple fact.

 

Also, what do you mean by, "that's how it usually plays out"? Please cite another time where Thanos has beaten the Silver Surfer aside from the famous Cosmic Powers Unlimited #1 fight. In Silver surfer: Rebirth of Thanos, Thanos did get hit once by SS and remain unfazed (keep in mind this was also before Surfer's upgrade), but in that same miniseries Surfer engaged him and Thanos faked his death and fled. Not that impressive if you ask me. If he could easily beat Surfer, why not stay and fight? And that scan you posted was before his augmentations at the hand of Galactus. Also, Surfer, in that battle, didn't have a complete mastery over the power cosmic, enabling Thanos to drain his energy. That's the only way Thanos could beat a person who far outclasses him in literally every measurement of power. Why did Surfer continue to blast Thanos with cosmic energy after learning he can absorb it instead of using his multitude of other powers like matter manipulation or blinding speed? PIS.

 

Surfer matched Thanos' power output while SEVERELY weakened during Annihilation. At full power, he would utterly DESTROY Thanos. Keep in mind, Surfer did this while literally near death, as in, he was about to die, and he matched Thanos' power output.

 

Also, back to my original point, why can't surfer just generate Radon? Noone has challenged this fact. What's stopping him?

 

P.S- @MarvelMan, while that is true, Surfer can engage him in that manner at will, so the feat's still pretty important.

[Guest force_echo]

[EDIT]

[Guest MarvelFan15]

I'm MarvelFan. Marvel Man is an entirely different person.

[xLEGACYx]

Also, back to my original point, why can't surfer just generate Radon? Noone has challenged this fact. What's stopping him?

Nothing is stopping him from creating radon BUT what is stopping Seid from simply ripping the power cosmic from Surfer and leaving plain Norrin Radd in a pocket dimension?

 

Whats stopping Seid and Thanos from absorbing the Power Cosmic from Surfer?

 

On a side note it take Surfer some concentration to focus and find energy signatures that would reveal Seid's only weakness. Even then Seid is not finished. In Final Crisis when Batman shot him with the radon bullet it only weakend him. It took both Flash tricking the Black Racer into running into Seid to kill him.

 

The utter stupidity of Surfer actually being able to defeat Seid or Thanos in a straight up fight is dumb. In all ways Seid outclasses Surfer.

 

Seid literally has every power Surfer has plus more and to a greater scale. So it amazes me that you say Surfer can win here. With the combined cleverness of Thanos and Seid makes Surfer's chances of winning very slim. Not to mention there combined power.

 

As for Dr. Manhattan, he is powerful but he has no experience with matters of this proportion from his world. He would simply be amazed at his new findings.

[baneblade]

Thanks for being direct right there Nova. Although my heart reflect's Nova's message in it, I will still say: lets be reasonable, and try to have some fun. Leave the 'tudes n' complicated undertones at home before you begin posting on ferret. There are enough grievances out there to deal with, lets not create new ones here. Maintain the respect.

[baneblade]

This is completely retarded. No New gods have died, there is no source wall, this is just Seid and just Surfer. There is no possible way that Seid can draw on the power of fallen New gods, which is an external power source BY EVERY DEFINITION. It doesn't matter if he has the innate ability to draw on them or not, the bottom line is HE'S. GETTING. POWER. FROM. SOMEWHERE. ELSE. Also, Legacy's scans are from Death of The New Gods, so no, he's not conventional. Again, if Seid is allowed to use the power of fallen New Gods, Surfer is allowed to use The Crunch. At least The Crunch doesn't depend on an even that hasn't even happened yet, its always there.

 

The Living Tribunal could create stuff too, he could literally create whole universes, easily. I'm not sure what about "LT is multiversal, and Source is Universal" you don't get, but I don't think I can break it down any simpler. LT is just plain higher up on the cosmic hierarchy. That's literally all there is too it. It doesn't matter if the Source created this shit, or the LT did that, the LT just plain has more power. The LT is second in line, I bet the freaking Spectre could take out the Source. It's not subjective at all, its completely objective, its a simple fact.

 

Also, what do you mean by, "that's how it usually plays out"? Please cite another time where Thanos has beaten the Silver Surfer aside from the famous Cosmic Powers Unlimited #1 fight. In Silver surfer: Rebirth of Thanos, Thanos did get hit once by SS and remain unfazed (keep in mind this was also before Surfer's upgrade), but in that same miniseries Surfer engaged him and Thanos faked his death and fled. Not that impressive if you ask me. If he could easily beat Surfer, why not stay and fight? And that scan you posted was before his augmentations at the hand of Galactus. Also, Surfer, in that battle, didn't have a complete mastery over the power cosmic, enabling Thanos to drain his energy. That's the only way Thanos could beat a person who far outclasses him in literally every measurement of power. Why did Surfer continue to blast Thanos with cosmic energy after learning he can absorb it instead of using his multitude of other powers like matter manipulation or blinding speed? PIS.

 

Surfer matched Thanos' power output while SEVERELY weakened during Annihilation. At full power, he would utterly DESTROY Thanos. Keep in mind, Surfer did this while literally near death, as in, he was about to die, and he matched Thanos' power output.

 

Also, back to my original point, why can't surfer just generate Radon? Noone has challenged this fact. What's stopping him?

 

P.S- @MarvelMan, while that is true, Surfer can engage him in that manner at will, so the feat's still pretty important.

 

Legacy has addressed it well. I will add my two cents there for some 'inbetween the lines' info.

 

Even without the 'soul juice' Seid still trumps Surfer's power.

 

LT: If you can substantiate his creation of 'universes' with a feat, again, sans complications, I will take it. I will tell you this: LT, on file has been instead known to or more appropriately annointed to 'look over things' and pass his word on ongoings. He only acts, as annointed, in times of 'imbalances' on a cosmic scale. His presence is subjective, and it is so to the creation around him, in which he has been given jurisdiction. A rather 'limited' fact that is outshined by an entity that can literally, and has literally done way more. You seem to discard the Source's absolute jurisdiction without reasonable justification. You could go all out and say I am doing the same to Tribunal, but I am not. I am giving you there stated, published range in comicdom.

 

By the by, you still didn;t give the reference of the being more powerful than Big G that Surfer somehow rather miraculosuly trumped.

 

As for the Radon creation, Legacy has put it to a tee: Concentration, time, all the focus he needs in this damned universe being attacked by the twosome. A luxury he won't really have. You yourself snipped this in the bud by saying that 'Surfer was not at full confidence when Thanos tanked his full out hit'. Two things get solved here, and it is only what I have said, that you have substantiated differently. Surfer has a wavering, human mindset. I said that. He is subjective to consequences, degrees, variations, where he was trumped by much lesser beings right off the bat. In this instant, why give him the absolute benefit of doubt against an opponent who has trumped him before, and dented his 'confidence' as you say?

 

PIS, that is your concern about Thanos humiliating Surfer? It goes bothways: Thanos totally unfazed one frame, and then somewhat shaken in another, is major PIS to me. The only saving grace is if you say, oh, Thanos might have been 'somewhat confused there, or his confidence dented somewhat during that second battle'. If it was, then Surfer again, is subject to the same pitfalls. Always was.

 

The point about a once in a lifetime display of force is further solidified by the mindset argument, when you say Surfer even in a fallen state matched Thanos. How many times have we seen this: Spiderman outwitting Juggernaut inspite of hanging bya thread, or falling Firelord, Superman beating Seid, Spiderman lifting 'tons' of metal with a twisted leg even, to escape to save Aunt may, Batman withstanding and fighting at least 4 -5 credible fighters in one go in under two panels. These all spell one thing: act of desperation. Again, mindset, out of the ordinary instances, that normally wouldn't be seen. If you pull those, and then gauge the character at his ebb, then I imagine only what Thanos' and Seid's combined 'ebb' would be? It would be terrible.

 

Awaiting your reply.

[Guest Redemption X]

Glad you're finally starting to realize it yourself.

 

That doesn't make you any less of a bullying, rude, inconsiderate jackass. Try treating people in real life the same way you treat people here, and see how far you go. Do you even have friends in real life, or have you alienated them all with your insults?

 

You can't go around like insulting everyone, you know.

[Guest Redemption X]

Thanks for being direct right there Nova. Although my heart reflect's Nova's message in it, I will still say: lets be reasonable, and try to have some fun. Leave the 'tudes n' complicated undertones at home before you begin posting on ferret. There are enough grievances out there to deal with, lets not create new ones here. Maintain the respect.

 

This should go for sirmethos as well as me. My idea of "fun" is NOT being called an idiot repeatedly.

[xLEGACYx]

That doesn't make you any less of a bullying, rude, inconsiderate jackass. Try treating people in real life the same way you treat people here, and see how far you go. Do you even have friends in real life, or have you alienated them all with your insults?

 

You can't go around like insulting everyone, you know.

thats exactly what you did when you commented on baneblade and echo. Thats like the pot calling the kettle black.

[Guest Redemption X]

But I only did it once, after this whole argument overwhelmed me.

 

sirmethos does it ALL THE TIME, with zero justification.

 

He didn't review my last batch of matches, he just gave me Fs on all of them without a proper review, just to spite me.

 

He hates me, and so far he hasn't told me WHY, only repeating "you are an idiot" like a broken record.

 

And still, the rules apply for everyone. If I'm not allowed to insult baneblade, then sirmethos is not allowed to insult me.

[xLEGACYx]

But I only did it once, after this whole argument overwhelmed me.

 

sirmethos does it ALL THE TIME, with zero justification.

 

He didn't review my last batch of matches, he just gave me Fs on all of them without a proper review, just to spite me.

 

He hates me, and so far he hasn't told me WHY, only repeating "you are an idiot" like a broken record.

 

And still, the rules apply for everyone. If I'm not allowed to insult baneblade, then sirmethos is not allowed to insult me.

then dont start it to begin with. Each person is subjagated to the same standards but dont insult people and then not expect retalliation from those people or people who already know your rep.

[Guest force_echo]

Nothing is stopping him from creating radon BUT what is stopping Seid from simply ripping the power cosmic from Surfer and leaving plain Norrin Radd in a pocket dimension?

 

Whats stopping Seid and Thanos from absorbing the Power Cosmic from Surfer?

 

On a side note it take Surfer some concentration to focus and find energy signatures that would reveal Seid's only weakness. Even then Seid is not finished. In Final Crisis when Batman shot him with the radon bullet it only weakend him. It took both Flash tricking the Black Racer into running into Seid to kill him.

 

The utter stupidity of Surfer actually being able to defeat Seid or Thanos in a straight up fight is dumb. In all ways Seid outclasses Surfer.

 

Seid literally has every power Surfer has plus more and to a greater scale. So it amazes me that you say Surfer can win here. With the combined cleverness of Thanos and Seid makes Surfer's chances of winning very slim. Not to mention there combined power.

 

As for Dr. Manhattan, he is powerful but he has no experience with matters of this proportion from his world. He would simply be amazed at his new findings.

Again, with his upgrade by Galactus, he has full control of the Power Cosmic, as in, noone can steal it from his body because he alone has control of where it goes and what it does.

 

Surfer doesn't require immense concentration to use cosmic awareness to discern weaknesses. When he fought Gladiator he was easily able to discern a weakness, and Darkseid has more of a "set" weakness than Gladiator does. Darkseid was already dying when he got shot with the radon bullet, The Flashes maneuvering the Black Racer was just nailing in the coffin. Besides, if one bullet can fatally wound him, he's going to be screwed against a guy who can make an unlimited amount.

 

You keep telling me that Seid far outclasses Surfer in power. Prove it. The utter stupidity of you not realizing the whole concept behind debating is mind blowing.

[Guest force_echo]

Legacy has addressed it well. I will add my two cents there for some 'inbetween the lines' info.

 

Even without the 'soul juice' Seid still trumps Surfer's power.

 

LT: If you can substantiate his creation of 'universes' with a feat, again, sans complications, I will take it. I will tell you this: LT, on file has been instead known to or more appropriately annointed to 'look over things' and pass his word on ongoings. He only acts, as annointed, in times of 'imbalances' on a cosmic scale. His presence is subjective, and it is so to the creation around him, in which he has been given jurisdiction. A rather 'limited' fact that is outshined by an entity that can literally, and has literally done way more. You seem to discard the Source's absolute jurisdiction without reasonable justification. You could go all out and say I am doing the same to Tribunal, but I am not. I am giving you there stated, published range in comicdom.

 

By the by, you still didn;t give the reference of the being more powerful than Big G that Surfer somehow rather miraculosuly trumped.

 

As for the Radon creation, Legacy has put it to a tee: Concentration, time, all the focus he needs in this damned universe being attacked by the twosome. A luxury he won't really have. You yourself snipped this in the bud by saying that 'Surfer was not at full confidence when Thanos tanked his full out hit'. Two things get solved here, and it is only what I have said, that you have substantiated differently. Surfer has a wavering, human mindset. I said that. He is subjective to consequences, degrees, variations, where he was trumped by much lesser beings right off the bat. In this instant, why give him the absolute benefit of doubt against an opponent who has trumped him before, and dented his 'confidence' as you say?

 

PIS, that is your concern about Thanos humiliating Surfer? It goes bothways: Thanos totally unfazed one frame, and then somewhat shaken in another, is major PIS to me. The only saving grace is if you say, oh, Thanos might have been 'somewhat confused there, or his confidence dented somewhat during that second battle'. If it was, then Surfer again, is subject to the same pitfalls. Always was.

 

The point about a once in a lifetime display of force is further solidified by the mindset argument, when you say Surfer even in a fallen state matched Thanos. How many times have we seen this: Spiderman outwitting Juggernaut inspite of hanging bya thread, or falling Firelord, Superman beating Seid, Spiderman lifting 'tons' of metal with a twisted leg even, to escape to save Aunt may, Batman withstanding and fighting at least 4 -5 credible fighters in one go in under two panels. These all spell one thing: act of desperation. Again, mindset, out of the ordinary instances, that normally wouldn't be seen. If you pull those, and then gauge the character at his ebb, then I imagine only what Thanos' and Seid's combined 'ebb' would be? It would be terrible.

 

Awaiting your reply.

First of all, if you recall my first post, I said if Surfer was blood-lusted, he could take out Seid and Thanos, he has the power to. So that whole thing about Surfer's wavering mindset or whatever doesn't even tie in with my argument.

 

Again, prove that Seid outclasses Surfer in power. If we go on a blow for blow capability basis- surfer outclasses both in speed, strength, energy projection, durability, etc. etc.

 

See my reply to Legacy about the concentration. Besides, even if he needs focus, he far outclasses both in raw speed, just avoid them for a while, scope it out, and go back in and destroy.

 

Him beating Aegis and Tenebrous happened at the end of Annihilation Wave, but as I mentioned he had to use The crunch to beat them. However, under his own power, he still held and stood up to them. A pretty insane feat since they're stronger than a Universal Entity, putting them above Eternity itself.

 

I don't think any of those feats have been done in a near death state. Besides, whatever desperation Surfer has, is countered by the fact that physically, he was still near death. If you get shot in the arm, and you have a sudden surge in adrenaline because of desperation, well, you're still not going to be able to use that arm, because physically, it is incapacitated.

 

The LT doesn't have a set feat because in Marvel cosmic entities don't interfere in anything. The OAA has almost never been directly involved in anything. Hell, its hardly ever mentioned. Meanwhile The Presence gets involved in all kinds of stuff, even being in the central role of some storylines. That doesn't mean that The Presence is stronger than the OAA, they're equal on the hierarchy. Similarly, the LT outclasses The Source on the Hierarchy. In DC, the Source is just above the Old Gods, this because the Old Gods were able to fracture the Source. This puts The Source far below the likes of the LT, who is second on the cosmic Hierarchy.

[Guest sirmethos]

Aegis and Tenebrous are not "stronger than a universal entity", and definitely not above Eternity. Even together they are weaker than Galactus at full power. It was Galactus that originally subdued them, and killed Diableri(another Primordial God, that was more powerful than Aegis and Tenebrous).

 

And while Silver Surfer did defeat them by channeling the power of The Crunch, they injured him enough that he was "barely alive", with just 3 blasts of energy.

 

It's still an impressive feat, but you're making it sound a lot more impressive than it actually is.