8:7 - Garnet (Steven Universe) vs. Monkey D. Luffy

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 8, ROUND 7

Garnet (Steven Universe)

Slot: Vs. Battle Wiki Tier: Nuclear (Medium Power)
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Garnet (Steven Universe) at this Wiki
Official Site: Cartoon Network

Monkey D. Luffy

Slot: Vs. Battle Wiki Tier: Nuclear (Medium Power)
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Monkey D. Luffy at this Wiki
Official Site: Eiichiro Oda

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Pandora Night

[Peypeypeypey]

This one would be a real slugfest. The environment is potentially damning for Luffy though. Garnet doesn't need to breathe, and with all the wild punches going on, Luffy's breathing apparatus might get damaged. However, Luffy's physicals are all a bit higher, even if we buy that Garnet is relativistic. Luffy has more feats at relativistic speeds than she does, and his "base" speed is much faster. I like the matchup a lot, but it probably goes down one of two ways. Either Garnet is able to stonewall him until his breathing apparatus is damaged, in which case he would lose, or he goes all out and manages to poof her before she can damage his device. Given his slight physical advantages in just about every category, the latter is pretty likely, although Garnet's durability and slight precog might make it tough for him

[Movie-Brat]

Garnet has demonstrated her ability to stretch too anyway. Similar to him surprisingly. 

[Macklemore]

As someone who does not buy the Garnet being Relativistic angle, I think Luffy has all it takes to win this. Faster, stronger, possibly the same durability, but Pey does bring a good point about him needing to breathe. As it stands though, I don't think Garnet can even land a hit on him so Luffy should win this.

[Movie-Brat]

There's still the oxygen problem. And Garnet does not need to breathe. The intensity of such a battle on that planet can make someone lose their oxygen. 

[Macklemore]

11 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

There's still the oxygen problem. And Garnet does not need to breathe. The intensity of such a battle on that planet can make someone lose their oxygen. 

Yeah, but she needs to land hits on Luffy to break through his breathing apparatus, which I don't see happening.

[Peypeypeypey]

3 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Yeah, but she needs to land hits on Luffy to break through his breathing apparatus, which I don't see happening.

That is true generally, but if their hits create shockwaves or something, environmental damage might destroy the breather before he can land a killing blow. I still think Luffy has the advantage, especially because his win-con is dependent on himself and not his environment, but Garnet definitely has a shot of winning

[Movie-Brat]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

Yeah, but she needs to land hits on Luffy to break through his breathing apparatus, which I don't see happening.

Like i said though, she has demonstrated similar abilities as Luffy. No reason to think she can't pull off what he can. 

 

[Peypeypeypey]

1 hour ago, Movie-Brat said:

Like i said though, she has demonstrated similar abilities as Luffy. No reason to think she can't pull off what he can. 

 

She can stretch somewhat, but Luffy is far more stretchy than she is and his stronger attacks should be decidedly above what Garnet can deal with. Even if we accept that her speed is relativistic, she's still slower than Luffy

[Movie-Brat]

Even despite that, she still has precognitive abilities. Future vision she calls it. 

[Peypeypeypey]

2 hours ago, Movie-Brat said:

Even despite that, she still has precognitive abilities. Future vision she calls it. 

That's true, but Luffy also has precog to about the same extent as Garnet with his Haki

[Movie-Brat]

1 hour ago, Peypeypeypey said:

That's true, but Luffy also has precog to about the same extent as Garnet with his Haki

Then this is an even fight. Though I still think all that stretching and intense fighting would knock off what's giving him oxygen. Not helped by whatever wildlife could come at him. 

[SSJRuss]

8 hours ago, Movie-Brat said:

Then this is an even fight. Though I still think all that stretching and intense fighting would knock off what's giving him oxygen. Not helped by whatever wildlife could come at him. 

Think Luffy has this match. Considering all the conversation about how hard each of them hit, the precog they have and stretching they can do... This edges in Luffy's favor.

Pandora has lower gravity than Earth, making Luffy's jumps and Gear Fourth more effective as he can stay in the air longer without using as much effort. Luffy may not need the breathing apparatus as much as Garnet would either. The Avatar wiki says a human wouldn't survive longer than four minutes without a breathing apparatus due to carbon dioxide poisoning. Luffy is really poison resistant to most poisons after Ivankov's procedure so he'll probably last a lot longer than four minutes. And anyone who watches anime can tell you how long four minutes can really be. Lol.

[Peypeypeypey]

2 hours ago, SSJRuss said:

Think Luffy has this match. Considering all the conversation about how hard each of them hit, the precog they have and stretching they can do... This edges in Luffy's favor.

Pandora has lower gravity than Earth, making Luffy's jumps and Gear Fourth more effective as he can stay in the air longer without using as much effort. Luffy may not need the breathing apparatus as much as Garnet would either. The Avatar wiki says a human wouldn't survive longer than four minutes without a breathing apparatus due to carbon dioxide poisoning. Luffy is really poison resistant to most poisons after Ivankov's procedure so he'll probably last a lot longer than four minutes. And anyone who watches anime can tell you how long four minutes can really be. Lol.

I agree with the general statement, but I don't think resistance to poisons would help you against carbon dioxide poisoning.

[Movie-Brat]

3 hours ago, SSJRuss said:

Think Luffy has this match. Considering all the conversation about how hard each of them hit, the precog they have and stretching they can do... This edges in Luffy's favor.

Pandora has lower gravity than Earth, making Luffy's jumps and Gear Fourth more effective as he can stay in the air longer without using as much effort. Luffy may not need the breathing apparatus as much as Garnet would either. The Avatar wiki says a human wouldn't survive longer than four minutes without a breathing apparatus due to carbon dioxide poisoning. Luffy is really poison resistant to most poisons after Ivankov's procedure so he'll probably last a lot longer than four minutes. And anyone who watches anime can tell you how long four minutes can really be. Lol.

In his world yes but another planet means different rules especially outside his own.

[Pizzaguy2995]

I’m afraid that I must argue in favor of Garnet. Sorry if it seems like I have it out for Luffy, but I swear I’m only it as I see it. I know some people will argue that Garnet shouldn’t be considered a relativistic speedster but I would remind them that we make our arguments assuming the characters are going to be at their greatest, therefore we must assume Garnet is a relativistic speedster. As most others have mentioned if Luffy’s breathing apparatus gets broken he’ll be a goner, and since their speeds are equal and both are pretty durable I have to go with Garnet since she has a quicker way to win. 

If the fight was on Earth I might have leaned in favor on Luffy, but on Pandora Garnet has the advantage. Sorry One Piece fans, this is just my opinion.

[Peypeypeypey]

58 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

I’m afraid that I must argue in favor of Garnet. Sorry if it seems like I have it out for Luffy, but I swear I’m only it as I see it. I know some people will argue that Garnet shouldn’t be considered a relativistic speedster but I would remind them that we make our arguments assuming the characters are going to be at their greatest, therefore we must assume Garnet is a relativistic speedster. As most others have mentioned if Luffy’s breathing apparatus gets broken he’ll be a goner, and since their speeds are equal and both are pretty durable I have to go with Garnet since she has a quicker way to win. 

If the fight was on Earth I might have leaned in favor on Luffy, but on Pandora Garnet has the advantage. Sorry One Piece fans, this is just my opinion.

Nobody disagrees that the character should be seen at their best, but that doesn't mean that we have to blindly accept the best feat as something the character can regularly and frequently replicate in a fight. Garnet has literally 1 example of dodging an attack that looks light-based and may be light speed. Luffy has far more experience dodging things at relativistic speeds. And again, even if we do assume they're at their best, Luffy is still fast than Garnet (Relativistic+ vs. Relativistic), has precog that is at least as reliable as Garnet's (I would argue it's actually far more reliable because of Garnet's precog's unreliability), and Luffy hits way harder than Garnet and has far more range (dozens of meters vs. tens of kilometers). I do think it would be a good fight but it's absolutely one that favors Luffy

EDIT:

I wanted to add to this briefly, expanding on the speed thing. This is the only feat I can find that anyone is declaring is Speed of Light, and I simply do not think this is enough to declare Garnet relativistic, sorry. Those laser are never stated nor implied to be speed of light, and most laser in fictions are not actually "lasers," as you yourself have pointed out, Pizzaguy. We don't see enough of them to know if they act like genuine lasers, but it's such a massive outlier that I really don't think it should be interpreted as speed of light at all, and this is literally the only combat feat that I can find that's anywhere close to the speed of light. The other faster feats she has are all things like blocking lightning, catching a cracking whip quickly after fusing (which is definitely supersonic), and then some travel feats. She's hypersonic, maybe massively hypersonic, but I just don't buy based on that feat that she's relativistic at all. And again, even if you do buy that somehow, Luffy is even faster (Relativistic+) and has all the aforementioned advantages

[Movie-Brat]

But how good is Luffy in being intelligence? Because Garnet could at least think of a strategy. 

[Peypeypeypey]

14 minutes ago, Movie-Brat said:

But how good is Luffy in being intelligence? Because Garnet could at least think of a strategy. 

In combat, Luffy is incredibly creative and smart, in typical Shonen hero fashion. Very much like Goku and Naruto, he's not very smart at anything else, but he can fight very well. 

[Movie-Brat]

Funny enough, there's a Garnet centered Steven Universe episode where she does act like a shonen hero.

[Pizzaguy2995]

4 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

Nobody disagrees that the character should be seen at their best, but that doesn't mean that we have to blindly accept the best feat as something the character can regularly and frequently replicate in a fight. Garnet has literally 1 example of dodging an attack that looks light-based and may be light speed. Luffy has far more experience dodging things at relativistic speeds. And again, even if we do assume they're at their best, Luffy is still fast than Garnet (Relativistic+ vs. Relativistic), has precog that is at least as reliable as Garnet's (I would argue it's actually far more reliable because of Garnet's precog's unreliability), and Luffy hits way harder than Garnet and has far more range (dozens of meters vs. tens of kilometers). I do think it would be a good fight but it's absolutely one that favors Luffy

EDIT:

I wanted to add to this briefly, expanding on the speed thing. This is the only feat I can find that anyone is declaring is Speed of Light, and I simply do not think this is enough to declare Garnet relativistic, sorry. Those laser are never stated nor implied to be speed of light, and most laser in fictions are not actually "lasers," as you yourself have pointed out, Pizzaguy. We don't see enough of them to know if they act like genuine lasers, but it's such a massive outlier that I really don't think it should be interpreted as speed of light at all, and this is literally the only combat feat that I can find that's anywhere close to the speed of light. The other faster feats she has are all things like blocking lightning, catching a cracking whip quickly after fusing (which is definitely supersonic), and then some travel feats. She's hypersonic, maybe massively hypersonic, but I just don't buy based on that feat that she's relativistic at all. And again, even if you do buy that somehow, Luffy is even faster (Relativistic+) and has all the aforementioned advantages

Dude you cannot just declare one person is dodging light speed because of lasers while insisting that another character isn’t. Either both Luffy and Garnet’s laser dodges don’t count or they both do, which is it? Either way they both have the same speed feats so sorry but Luffy won’t have speed for an advantage. Also I’m not denying Luffy is stronger and more durable, I’ve even admitted that were the fight on Earth and oxygen wasn’t a problem then Luffy would take it. But the fact is this takes place on Pandora and Luffy’s gonna be in big trouble if his breathing apparatus is hit. And considering Garnet is nearly his equal in speed, durability, and attack strength, so as long as she has time to destroy the device she can end the fight much quicker then Luffy will be able to. On Earth, Luffy would take it, but on Pandora, Garnet will win more often then not.

[Peypeypeypey]

10 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Dude you cannot just declare one person is dodging light speed because of lasers while insisting that another character isn’t. Either both Luffy and Garnet’s laser dodges don’t count or they both do, which is it? Either way they both have the same speed feats so sorry but Luffy won’t have speed for an advantage. Also I’m not denying Luffy is stronger and more durable, I’ve even admitted that were the fight on Earth and oxygen wasn’t a problem then Luffy would take it. But the fact is this takes place on Pandora and Luffy’s gonna be in big trouble if his breathing apparatus is hit. And considering Garnet is nearly his equal in speed, durability, and attack strength, so as long as she has time to destroy the device she can end the fight much quicker then Luffy will be able to. On Earth, Luffy would take it, but on Pandora, Garnet will win more often then not.

I'm not "just declaring it." The Vs. Battle Wiki is the one making the assumption here. There is literally nothing in the show that says or implies that that particular laser attack is light speed, and it is visually just not a light speed attack. It is not an especially fast attack. That, coupled with the fact that Garnet blocking lightning is framed as a relatively necessary thing for her to do to protect Steven, is why I think she's not relativistic. The One Piece attacks are explicitly stated to be at the speed of light. The Steven Universe laser aren't, and they would be much faster than any other attack in the show if they were. So no, I'm not "just declaring it." One show is telling us that they are, the other show isn't at all, and is scaled to such a speed that it would be a massive outlier

[Pizzaguy2995]

21 minutes ago, Peypeypeypey said:

I'm not "just declaring it." The Vs. Battle Wiki is the one making the assumption here. There is literally nothing in the show that says or implies that that particular laser attack is light speed, and it is visually just not a light speed attack. It is not an especially fast attack. That, coupled with the fact that Garnet blocking lightning is framed as a relatively necessary thing for her to do to protect Steven, is why I think she's not relativistic. The One Piece attacks are explicitly stated to be at the speed of light. The Steven Universe laser aren't, and they would be much faster than any other attack in the show if they were. So no, I'm not "just declaring it." One show is telling us that they are, the other show isn't at all, and is scaled to such a speed that it would be a massive outlier

Oh so now we’re going by VS. Battle Wiki again? Okay, well if that’s the case why does the wiki not list Luffy as a light speed dodger? Because he’s not! Both Luffy and Garnet are listed in the Relativistic speed ranges, not light speed! And oh, the One Piece characters say that the attacks are light speed, therefore their light speed? Lex Luther and Light Yagami both regularly declare themselves to be Gods, shall we assume that both are God tier characters based solely on that claim? Damien Wayne and Storm Shadow (GI Joe) have declared that their the greatest fighters of their respected worlds, should we consider that to be true based solely on their boasts? Saying something doesn’t make it true, proof makes it true and simply saying that a group of sailors who still use wooden ships and wield flintlock guns have found a way to mass produce faster then light attacks is not enough proof of itself to be considered unquestionable truths. That’s why Luffy speed isn’t counted as speed of light in VS wiki. If you disagree with the wiki on that then say so, but you can’t just use the wiki in one argument but then dismiss it in other instances. BTW if anything Garnet’s dodging of those lasers count as far better examples of light speed dodges because they were actually created by a civilization that actually mastered faster then light travels! But I’m not going to go there, because I’m of the opinion that we are still using the VS Battle wiki as an impartial judge of character feats.

[Peypeypeypey]

2 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

Oh so now we’re going by VS. Battle Wiki again? Okay, well if that’s the case why does the wiki not list Luffy as a light speed dodger? Because he’s not! Both Luffy and Garnet are listed in the Relativistic speed ranges, not light speed!

First, it's weird that you phrased your response this way because I explicitly brought up the Vs. Battles Wiki to disagree with it. Most importantly, dude, I explained this to you last time, "relativistic" means they can dodge light speed attacks, but at a distance and with some idea that it's coming. Light speed dodging means that you can dodge point blank light speed attacks with no real forewarning of the attacks. Wonder Woman from the DCAU is also relativistic for the exact same reason, as is Garnet, because "relativistic" just means that they've reacted to light speed attacks at a range that have a charge up (like the One Piece guy's charge-up time or the prisms lighting up before they shoot), but they haven't demonstrated the ability to dodge a point-blank light speed attack with no warning. I have no idea why you bring this up as if it proves your point because all it does is show that you're unfamiliar with the terminology being used.

7 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

And oh, the One Piece characters say that the attacks are light speed, therefore their light speed? Lex Luther and Light Yagami both regularly declare themselves to be Gods, shall we assume that both are God tier characters based solely on that claim? Damien Wayne and Storm Shadow (GI Joe) have declared that their the greatest fighters of their respected worlds, should we consider that to be true based solely on their boasts? Saying something doesn’t make it true, proof makes it true and simply saying that a group of sailors who still use wooden ships and wield flintlock guns have found a way to mass produce faster then light attacks is not enough proof of itself to be considered unquestionable truths. 

What are you even on about, dude?

No, we obviously shouldn't take everything at face value, and I'm not doing that. All those examples are people using very obvious hyperbole. To answer "should we consider that to be true based solely on their boasts?" the obvious answer is no. But I'm not basing it solely on the boasts. This wiki link literally explicitly says "It enables the user to move at the speed of light and transport themself by means of reflection," so there are non-boast reasons to assume that the characters are light speed. It also makes sense from a logical point of view. The Sand Devil fruit allows its user to create and become sand, the lightning Logia fruit allows its user to create and become lightning, so it makes perfect logical sense that the Light Devil Fruit would allow its user to become light, and since light moves at light speed, that's where the light speed idea comes from. If you choose not to believe that because light speed in fiction is often loosely used and authors aren't physicists, fair enough, but if we cut out both the light-speed dodges from Garnet and from Luffy, Luffy is massively faster than Garnet without those high-end feats. 

The whole "wooden ships and flintlock guns" thing is completely irrelevant. It's a fictional world and there are plenty of things that are completely irrational about it. In real life, there's also not magic fruit that gives you super powers and lets you become a rubber man, and yet, it exists in One Piece. 

26 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

That’s why Luffy speed isn’t counted as speed of light in VS wiki. 

Again, that is simply incorrect. The wiki doesn't say Luffy is a light-speed reactor because he's not. He's relativist because he's reacted to light speed attacks with warning and time to prepare for the attack. 

27 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

If you disagree with the wiki on that then say so, but you can’t just use the wiki in one argument but then dismiss it in other instances.

I don't disagree with the wiki. See above. And I can absolutely say "I think the Vs. Battle Wiki was correct on one thing, but wrong on another." That's not hypocritical, it's perfectly logical to look at each individual statement with scrutiny. I think they were correct with Luffy's Relativistic+, but wrong with Garnet's Relativistic, which is literally exactly what I said in my above post. 

30 minutes ago, Pizzaguy2995 said:

BTW if anything Garnet’s dodging of those lasers count as far better examples of light speed dodges because they were actually created by a civilization that actually mastered faster then light travels! But I’m not going to go there, because I’m of the opinion that we are still using the VS Battle wiki as an impartial judge of character feats.

No, we are absolutely not using the Vs. Battle Wiki as an impartial judge, nor should we. In many other fights, I have vocally disagreed with the Vs. Battle Wiki on many different fights here. They listed Sagat as City-level with no real evidence for that, so I disagreed, for example. We shouldn't blindly accept the what the wiki says. Alucard from Castlevania is listed as 2-C, also known as Universe+ level. Kratos is listed as 2-C as well, at Low Multiversal level. I'm sorry, but those two profiles are absolutely wrong, and you will never convince me that they should be taken seriously. The Vs. Battle Wiki is a good basis for judging how strong characters are, but it is absolutely not the final word in feat interpretation, nor should be assume it is

[Pizzaguy2995]

8 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

First, it's weird that you phrased your response this way because I explicitly brought up the Vs. Battles Wiki to disagree with it. Most importantly, dude, I explained this to you last time, "relativistic" means they can dodge light speed attacks, but at a distance and with some idea that it's coming. Light speed dodging means that you can dodge point blank light speed attacks with no real forewarning of the attacks. Wonder Woman from the DCAU is also relativistic for the exact same reason, as is Garnet, because "relativistic" just means that they've reacted to light speed attacks at a range that have a charge up (like the One Piece guy's charge-up time or the prisms lighting up before they shoot), but they haven't demonstrated the ability to dodge a point-blank light speed attack with no warning. I have no idea why you bring this up as if it proves your point because all it does is show that you're unfamiliar with the terminology being used.

Peypey, I’ve looked up Relativistic, it is specifically defined as near light speed, as in close to it but not quite it. Speed of Light has it’s own definition remember? And I argued WW is light speed because the VS wiki specifically said Green Lantern attacks are confirmed speed of light attacks, they even mention it under Diana’s speed listing. If they listed Luffy’s dodging the androids blasts as speed of light you might have a point but they don’t.

 

8 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

No, we are absolutely not using the Vs. Battle Wiki as an impartial judge, nor should we. In many other fights, I have vocally disagreed with the Vs. Battle Wiki on many different fights here. They listed Sagat as City-level with no real evidence for that, so I disagreed, for example. We shouldn't blindly accept the what the wiki says. Alucard from Castlevania is listed as 2-C, also known as Universe+ level. Kratos is listed as 2-C as well, at Low Multiversal level. I'm sorry, but those two profiles are absolutely wrong, and you will never convince me that they should be taken seriously. The Vs. Battle Wiki is a good basis for judging how strong characters are, but it is absolutely not the final word in feat interpretation, nor should be assume it is

Then tell me once and for all Peypey, do we consider laser dodges the equivalent of the speed of light or not? Because the fact of the matter is that Garnet did dodge lasers just the same as Luffy did, you can’t just claim one laser is speed of light while the other isn’t, that is not an impartial decision, that’s you having a clear bias for Luffy and being unwilling to apply the same reasoning to other characters.

 

8 hours ago, Peypeypeypey said:

The whole "wooden ships and flintlock guns" thing is completely irrelevant. It's a fictional world and there are plenty of things that are completely irrational about it. In real life, there's also not magic fruit that gives you super powers and lets you become a rubber man, and yet, it exists in One Piece. 

So fucking what? Are supposed to ignore every plot hole in a movie or anime series because “it’s a fictional world?” If a tv series set in medieval times spent the first half of the series having nothing but swords and archers as weapons and then midway through we suddenly saw a knight wielding a sub machine gun, are we just supposed to accept it because “it’s a fictional world?” If one season of a sci-fi show showed them traveling across entire galaxies, then the next season their suddenly unable to leave their own planet, do we just accept it because “it’s a fictional world?” Sorry but you can’t just expect people to buy that argument without question, especially when your also saying that the lasers from the SU series shouldn’t be counted despite those lasers being made by beings who again have actually shown to be technologically able to travel at light speed! Again Peypey, the fact that you’ll argue to the death that sailors with flintlock pistols have created speed of light weapons but space fairing races like the Gems and Green Lanterns haven’t shows that you are incredibly bias in your reasons.

 

Look, we’re getting off topic, so I’ll just bring back up my original point: Garnet is almost as fast, strong, and tough as Luffy, therefore if she can land a clean hit on his breathing apparatus, which I believe she can, then she will win more often then not. Voting Garnet.