13:7 - Din Djarin vs. Fox McCloud

[Mercenaryblade]

31 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

The very first Star Fox level is using an Arwing in Corneria City. Fox totally is at liberty to deploy his vehicular power. The mission is to save the forest. Best to get it done quickly.

Scorch Marks but not fires. You are asserting that a fire is going to break out when blasters do not do that in either Star Wars or Star Fox.

A forest environment does offer cover and concealment. Advantage to the guy who is an anthropomorphic woodland critter and wears a lot more green and dull colors than the guy head to toe in reflective chrome.

A woods is also open enough to support sniper fire and hit and run with Fox's speed and mobility options.

Yeah you also have a very good chance of overshooting your enemy entirely in an arwing. And once again, heavy weapons cause collateral damage and widespread destruction including wildflowers. Bad idea. 

Scorch marks equals heat. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not possible, we just don't have any media dedicated to dealing with the fallout from blaster fire. Except of course Luke's Homstead on fire and Owen and Berus charred corpses which is definitely evidence of the heat of blaster weapons. Wildfires are still a huge risk. 

Fox might land a shot or two but then Mando will know where he's firing and will respond in kind. This is very likely not the first time Mando has stalked a foe in the forest, and given how many aliens in Star Wars also have heigtened senses and agility and Mando's still standing. Yeah. This is another bounty for him.   

[Twogunkid]

8 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

Yeah you also have a very good chance of overshooting your enemy entirely in an arwing. And once again, heavy weapons cause collateral damage and widespread destruction including wildflowers. Bad idea. 

Scorch marks equals heat. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not possible, we just don't have any media dedicated to dealing with the fallout from blaster fire. Except of course Luke's Homstead on fire and Owen and Berus charred corpses which is definitely evidence of the heat of blaster weapons. Wildfires are still a huge risk. 

Fox might land a shot or two but then Mando will know where he's firing and will respond in kind. This is very likely not the first time Mando has stalked a foe in the forest, and given how many aliens in Star Wars also have heigtened senses and agility and Mando's still standing. Yeah. This is another bounty for him.   

For a less competent pilot than Fox McCloud, sure, but Fox is an ace pilot. He takes on Armadas, flies into Aparoid homeworlds, navigates treacherous asteroid fields, and downs other ace pilots routinely. Throw in the fact that the Arwing has a lock on feature and gimbaled cannons and Fox has no problem there.

You presume blaster fire ignites the homestead and the Lars-s. Stormtroopers also have rocket launcher troops, flametroopers, and thermal detonators there. The vast majority of blaster fire in Star Wars does not ignite fires.

Per Mando vs Fennic Shand, one shot knocks him down even in Beskar and he is only saved by the other bounty hunter he is working with getting to melee range with Fennic. Mando has no backup here.

Fox is a one man army having braved not one but two hostile planets with minimal backup (Sauria and the Aparoid World). He's stormed hostile pirate bases on foot

and besting some space mercenary is another day in the office for him.  Mando can join Star Wold in the long list of foes bested by Fox McCloud.

[Mercenaryblade]

1 hour ago, Twogunkid said:

For a less competent pilot than Fox McCloud, sure, but Fox is an ace pilot. He takes on Armadas, flies into Aparoid homeworlds, navigates treacherous asteroid fields, and downs other ace pilots routinely. Throw in the fact that the Arwing has a lock on feature and gimbaled cannons and Fox has no problem there.

You presume blaster fire ignites the homestead and the Lars-s. Stormtroopers also have rocket launcher troops, flametroopers, and thermal detonators there. The vast majority of blaster fire in Star Wars does not ignite fires.

Per Mando vs Fennic Shand, one shot knocks him down even in Beskar and he is only saved by the other bounty hunter he is working with getting to melee range with Fennic. Mando has no backup here.

Fox is a one man army having braved not one but two hostile planets with minimal backup (Sauria and the Aparoid World). He's stormed hostile pirate bases on foot

and besting some space mercenary is another day in the office for him.  Mando can join Star Wold in the long list of foes bested by Fox McCloud.

Doesn't matter how good a pilot you are vehicles going so fast is not ideal for hunting down one person. Also lock on I don't think would work on a small target. And again the lock on will cause a lot more damage than is necessary. Again Fox's job is to prevent forest destruction as much as possible.  

Yes I presume it was blaster fire because the sandtroopers were hunting the droids. I don't think they'd open up with a rocket launcher, nor do they seem to have one out on patrol, and why would they have flamethrowers on Tattooine? Thermal detonators are a possibility but hey another tick for Mando winning this and destroying the forest. The more times these two fire the more likely there will be a fire. 

If he's knocked down he'll just roll to cover, and again he wasn't hurt or killed by said blaster fire. Mando learns from his experiences and he'd definitely play dead and lure Fox in. 

Mando's bested a long list of foes too and most of them weren't in dogfigths or with Krystal's staff like the majority of Fox's foes.  

[Twogunkid]

6 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

Doesn't matter how good a pilot you are vehicles going so fast is not ideal for hunting down one person. Also lock on I don't think would work on a small target. And again the lock on will cause a lot more damage than is necessary. Again Fox's job is to prevent forest destruction as much as possible.  

Yes I presume it was blaster fire because the sandtroopers were hunting the droids. I don't think they'd open up with a rocket launcher, nor do they seem to have one out on patrol, and why would they have flamethrowers on Tattooine? Thermal detonators are a possibility but hey another tick for Mando winning this and destroying the forest. The more times these two fire the more likely there will be a fire. 

If he's knocked down he'll just roll to cover, and again he wasn't hurt or killed by said blaster fire. Mando learns from his experiences and he'd definitely play dead and lure Fox in. 

Mando's bested a long list of foes too and most of them weren't in dogfigths or with Krystal's staff like the majority of Fox's foes.  

The majority of Star Fox Assualt is Fox being a one man army gunning his way through hordes of Aparoids. Mando has never taken on the numbers Fox has. Fox does a huge chunk of that game on foot using various weapons. The gatling gun he uses in that game even chews through barriers and would basically be like Mando taking on an E-Web, which we know is effective against Mandalorians through Moff Gideon's speech at the end of season 1.

Fennic had Mando dead to rights in the clip I linked. Another shot and he was down and judging by his grunting the shot he did take did hurt him.

Precision strikes from a star fighter aren't taking down a whole forest. You keep claiming that Fox will level it to take out Mando, but also from Star Fox Assault, the Arwing is perfectly capable of being used as a ground strike fighter. It does not start raging fires on Sauria when Fox uses it to engage the enemy.

Further, the Lars household may have just been rigged to blow and burn to send a message as they appeared to be rebel sympathizers. Your claims of blaster fires are conjecture.

Mando is a good hunter, but Fox McCloud is more than a match for him.

[Macklemore]

I think Fox McCloud has an advantage over Din Djarin in terms of speed, agility, and aerial combat. His Arwing is faster and more maneuverable than Din’s Razor Crest, and his blaster and reflector can counter Din’s ranged attacks. Fox also has more experience in fighting against different enemies and environments. Din Djarin, on the other hand, has an advantage over Fox McCloud in terms of durability, firepower, and stealth. His beskar armor can withstand most of Fox’s attacks, and his weapons and gadgets can deal more damage and surprise Fox. If this is a dogfight, Fox shits on the Mandalorian. If it's not, Mandalorian *has* a chance, but he's also been knocked down by lesser. He has 60/40 chance. If one is in a ship, and the other one isn't, the one in the ship wins (obviously).

[Mercenaryblade]

1 hour ago, Macklemore said:

I think Fox McCloud has an advantage over Din Djarin in terms of speed, agility, and aerial combat. His Arwing is faster and more maneuverable than Din’s Razor Crest, and his blaster and reflector can counter Din’s ranged attacks. Fox also has more experience in fighting against different enemies and environments. Din Djarin, on the other hand, has an advantage over Fox McCloud in terms of durability, firepower, and stealth. His beskar armor can withstand most of Fox’s attacks, and his weapons and gadgets can deal more damage and surprise Fox. If this is a dogfight, Fox shits on the Mandalorian. If it's not, Mandalorian *has* a chance, but he's also been knocked down by lesser. He has 60/40 chance. If one is in a ship, and the other one isn't, the one in the ship wins (obviously).

Toss the ship argument out it's in a forest. 

[Mercenaryblade]

2 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

The majority of Star Fox Assualt is Fox being a one man army gunning his way through hordes of Aparoids. Mando has never taken on the numbers Fox has. Fox does a huge chunk of that game on foot using various weapons. The gatling gun he uses in that game even chews through barriers and would basically be like Mando taking on an E-Web, which we know is effective against Mandalorians through Moff Gideon's speech at the end of season 1.

Fennic had Mando dead to rights in the clip I linked. Another shot and he was down and judging by his grunting the shot he did take did hurt him.

Precision strikes from a star fighter aren't taking down a whole forest. You keep claiming that Fox will level it to take out Mando, but also from Star Fox Assault, the Arwing is perfectly capable of being used as a ground strike fighter. It does not start raging fires on Sauria when Fox uses it to engage the enemy.

Further, the Lars household may have just been rigged to blow and burn to send a message as they appeared to be rebel sympathizers. Your claims of blaster fires are conjecture.

Mando is a good hunter, but Fox McCloud is more than a match for him.

Is that gameplay or cutscenes because we all know game mechanics aren't exactly true to character stats. Regardless, that's nice and all but this is a one on one fight. Also that gatling isn't a stable mounted gun like an E-web is. Bringing it to bear on an opponent who's going to keep moving is easier said than done. 

Dead to rights is debatable, he takes fire from multiple powerful blasters and still seemed fine. Brusing if nothing else. Again, since he's dealt with a sniper before and learns from his past fights Mando would definitely play opossum or let himself fall and get to cover to lure Fox in.

A blaster bolt is a volume magnetically-sealed plasma-- it's basically a tiny lightning strike. It can definitely start fires. The troopers probably kept up fire on the bodies after they were dead as it seems it was done execution style. Probably did the same on the homstead. Why waste explosives when you can just fire repeatedly. 

Precision strikes from a Starfighter don't take out a whole fores (Potentially can though) but again why would you go that route it IS going to cause a major swath of damage as you have already admitted. Fox is supposed to MINIMIZE forest damage he ain't going to blow the hell out of a chunk and possibly cause some collateral damage. Which if that totally would. Starting off with a starfighter is just silly. I'd again chock up no fires or explosions on Sauria purely by limits of game engine. 

 

[Twogunkid]

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Is that gameplay or cutscenes because we all know game mechanics aren't exactly true to character stats. Regardless, that's nice and all but this is a one on one fight. Also that gatling isn't a stable mounted gun like an E-web is. Bringing it to bear on an opponent who's going to keep moving is easier said than done. 

Both actually. It's when Fox is using it in Corneria city on Star Fighter and Landmaster grade enemies and he carried it on his own while standing on the wing of Falco's Arwing and later on Wolf's Wolfen. He also  runs around with one in a bunch of levels.

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Dead to rights is debatable, he takes fire from multiple powerful blasters and still seemed fine. Brusing if nothing else. Again, since he's dealt with a sniper before and learns from his past fights Mando would definitely play opossum or let himself fall and get to cover to lure Fox in.

That clip is pretty clear Mando would have died if the other bounty hunter didn't get into melee with Fennic Shand. Even if it is just keeping him pinned with repeated fire till he dies.

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A blaster bolt is a volume magnetically-sealed plasma-- it's basically a tiny lightning strike. It can definitely start fires. The troopers probably kept up fire on the bodies after they were dead as it seems it was done execution style. Probably did the same on the homstead. Why waste explosives when you can just fire repeatedly. 

Still conjecture. No fire is started with a blaster except Greedo and Grevious.

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Precision strikes from a Starfighter don't take out a whole fores (Potentially can though) but again why would you go that route it IS going to cause a major swath of damage as you have already admitted. Fox is supposed to MINIMIZE forest damage he ain't going to blow the hell out of a chunk and possibly cause some collateral damage. Which if that totally would. Starting off with a starfighter is just silly. I'd again chock up no fires or explosions on Sauria purely by limits of game engine. 

You keep claiming it's going to a ton of damage when it's just going to be a crate on Mando's position. After all, Star Destroyer Turbolasers in Star Wars don't seem to do that much damage to the ground even during the bombardment of Lothal previously linked or in the Ashoka season finale.  You can chock it up to the game limits or Star Fox blasters don't start fires. They don't do it in any Star Fox game that I have played in either cutscene or gameplay. Your blasters don't either. In fact looking at the clips of TIEs doing strafing runs, it actually seems to me that if Fox's blasters operate on similar ways to Star Wars ones, he is totally fine spamming blaster fire.

Mando is not going to be able to start a fire with blaster fire or rely on Fox to do that. He's going to need to be setting charges which he only carries like 2-4 of or using his precious seconds of flamethrower fuel.

[Mercenaryblade]

6 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Both actually. It's when Fox is using it in Corneria city on Star Fighter and Landmaster grade enemies and he carried it on his own while standing on the wing of Falco's Arwing and later on Wolf's Wolfen. He also  runs around with one in a bunch of levels.

That clip is pretty clear Mando would have died if the other bounty hunter didn't get into melee with Fennic Shand. Even if it is just keeping him pinned with repeated fire till he dies.

Still conjecture. No fire is started with a blaster except Greedo and Grevious.

You keep claiming it's going to a ton of damage when it's just going to be a crate on Mando's position. After all, Star Destroyer Turbolasers in Star Wars don't seem to do that much damage to the ground even during the bombardment of Lothal previously linked or in the Ashoka season finale.  You can chock it up to the game limits or Star Fox blasters don't start fires. They don't do it in any Star Fox game that I have played in either cutscene or gameplay. Your blasters don't either. In fact looking at the clips of TIEs doing strafing runs, it actually seems to me that if Fox's blasters operate on similar ways to Star Wars ones, he is totally fine spamming blaster fire.

Mando is not going to be able to start a fire with blaster fire or rely on Fox to do that. He's going to need to be setting charges which he only carries like 2-4 of or using his precious seconds of flamethrower fuel.

Wait what part are you talking about? The gatling? Yeah it's still a cumbersome weapon in a forest environment. Not to mention all the heat it puts out.  

Probably would have just knocked him around some more. That's one issue with Mando's show, the more it goes on the more it seemed he was never in any real danger. Such as S2 when he's surrounded by troopers and taking multiple shots. 

You don't want a CRATER in the first place you could have just wiped out some woodland creatures, which per the scenario you're supposed to be keeping safe along with the forest.  Again, the fact they don't cause fires is ridiculous. Turbolasers are said to turn a planets surface to molten slag in source books, yet we're never shown how truly devastating they'd actually be for whatever reason. Greedo, Grievous, Owen, and Beru. I think we're mostly not shown more gruesome burns is the ratings of most Star Wars media. In fact there's a lot of inconsistencies with weaponry. New Hope Han's blaster is blowing chunks out of buildings, but then most monsters just seem to get a third degree burn from such weapons and get pissed but a lightsaber takes them out, which is also a heat-based weapon.        

He's got enough to cause a brush fire and take out fox, which I think seals the win here.   

[Twogunkid]

15 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

Wait what part are you talking about? The gatling? Yeah it's still a cumbersome weapon in a forest environment. Not to mention all the heat it puts out.  

Probably would have just knocked him around some more. That's one issue with Mando's show, the more it goes on the more it seemed he was never in any real danger. Such as S2 when he's surrounded by troopers and taking multiple shots. 

You don't want a CRATER in the first place you could have just wiped out some woodland creatures, which per the scenario you're supposed to be keeping safe along with the forest.  Again, the fact they don't cause fires is ridiculous. Turbolasers are said to turn a planets surface to molten slag in source books, yet we're never shown how truly devastating they'd actually be for whatever reason. Greedo, Grievous, Owen, and Beru. I think we're mostly not shown more gruesome burns is the ratings of most Star Wars media. In fact there's a lot of inconsistencies with weaponry. New Hope Han's blaster is blowing chunks out of buildings, but then most monsters just seem to get a third degree burn from such weapons and get pissed but a lightsaber takes them out, which is also a heat-based weapon.        

He's got enough to cause a brush fire and take out fox, which I think seals the win here.   

I'm done arguing the heat. You say they should start fires but even you admit that in the vast majority of cases they don't.

I mean Mando loses a fair number of fights. I wouldn't say it is fair to say he is no peril.

Star Wars turbolasers have yet to turn something to slag in comics or on screen media. I cannot even think of a good novel instance where they did that. (Granted the old EU has not been read by me in a long time.  A long time.)

We don't see these more gruesome blaster cookings in more extended media either. The worst EU thing I can think of is Triclops electrocuting himself to fake Force Lightning, but I can't think of a blaster cooking anyone. Fox's hand blaster is an anti-ship weapon with the charging features. Mando's pistol is the equivalent of a .44 magnum. Damn respectable, but not close to what Fox's blaster can do.

Further Fox has two varieties of gatling gun he uses in Assault, both of which are man (Fox) portable.

 

[Mercenaryblade]

15 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

I'm done arguing the heat. You say they should start fires but even you admit that in the vast majority of cases they don't.

I mean Mando loses a fair number of fights. I wouldn't say it is fair to say he is no peril.

Star Wars turbolasers have yet to turn something to slag in comics or on screen media. I cannot even think of a good novel instance where they did that. (Granted the old EU has not been read by me in a long time.  A long time.)

We don't see these more gruesome blaster cookings in more extended media either. The worst EU thing I can think of is Triclops electrocuting himself to fake Force Lightning, but I can't think of a blaster cooking anyone. Fox's hand blaster is an anti-ship weapon with the charging features. Mando's pistol is the equivalent of a .44 magnum. Damn respectable, but not close to what Fox's blaster can do.

Further Fox has two varieties of gatling gun he uses in Assault, both of which are man (Fox) portable.

 

They do start fires how do you think this started? 

Loses but never really seems to be too hurt by anything. That armor stops a lot, there's a reason it's literal plot armor by fans.

The bit about turbolaser turning a planet to slag was from this on the Acclamator page: 04. Star Wars Incredible Cross-Sections Attack Of The Clones The Definitive Guide To The Craft From Star Wars Episode Ⅱ [ Curtis Saxton] [ 2002] : Curtis Saxton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Because you only need one shot most the time and we don't see much of the after effect, but smoke is a recurring theme. Gurantee you keep shooting somewhere in the same spot it will burn. Fox's gatling laser is still a poor choice of weapon and he's more likely to use his pistol especially when confronting just one guy. Even if he did bring it I'd still bet on Mando getting the upper hand due to Fox bringing such a bulky weapon. Whistling birds would probably be what does him in. 

 

[Twogunkid]

33 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

They do start fires how do you think this started? 

Loses but never really seems to be too hurt by anything. That armor stops a lot, there's a reason it's literal plot armor by fans.

The bit about turbolaser turning a planet to slag was from this on the Acclamator page: 04. Star Wars Incredible Cross-Sections Attack Of The Clones The Definitive Guide To The Craft From Star Wars Episode Ⅱ [ Curtis Saxton] [ 2002] : Curtis Saxton : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Because you only need one shot most the time and we don't see much of the after effect, but smoke is a recurring theme. Gurantee you keep shooting somewhere in the same spot it will burn. Fox's gatling laser is still a poor choice of weapon and he's more likely to use his pistol especially when confronting just one guy. Even if he did bring it I'd still bet on Mando getting the upper hand due to Fox bringing such a bulky weapon. Whistling birds would probably be what does him in. 

 

Those fires? The result of rebel charges placed on the Imperial Bunker. Battlefront II first mission. Not from Turbolaser bombardment. Even if Turbolasers can do what the guide claims, we don't see it even during Operation: Cinder as that was carried out via satellite weapons.

[Mercenaryblade]

31 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Those fires? The result of rebel charges placed on the Imperial Bunker. Battlefront II first mission. Not from Turbolaser bombardment. Even if Turbolasers can do what the guide claims, we don't see it even during Operation: Cinder as that was carried out via satellite weapons.

Crap forgot about that fact, been some time since Battlefront II. Still explosives + forest= not good. 

I merely brought up the guide because you said it was never stated in media that turbolasers could turn a planet to slag. No one is using turbolasers in this fight. 

 

 

[Mercenaryblade]

Alright @Twogunkid and anyone else weighing in on this. I'm getting sleepy which means I'm probably not going to make any better arguments. I'd love to continue arguing but with Christmas eve and Christmas day coming up I always try to abstain from computer use and spend time with loved ones. Instead, I shall put my closing argument/recap of everything down below.

Din Djarin's Mandalorian armor and weaponry provide him with a diverse array of tools to adapt to different combat scenarios. His blaster, jetpack, and other gadgets offer versatility, allowing him to engage Fox McCloud.

Tactical Expertise and Adaptability: As a seasoned bounty hunter, Din Djarin demonstrates tactical acumen, adaptability, and resourcefulness in navigating challenging situations. His ability to strategize and exploit environmental factors could give him an edge over Fox McCloud, leveraging his expertise in hand-to-hand combat and guerrilla tactics.

Determination and Resilience: Din Djarin's relentless determination and resilience in pursuing his objectives highlight his unwavering commitment to overcoming challenges and adversaries. His determination could manifest as a formidable drive to outmaneuver and defeat Fox McCloud in a hypothetical confrontation.
 

Blasters Starting Forest Fires:

Blasters are depicted as powerful energy weapons capable of causing significant damage to structures, vehicles, and organic matter. While the primary focus of blasters is on their destructive capabilities in combat scenarios, collateral damage from blaster fire could potentially ignite flammable materials.

[Magnamax]

Fun matchup. Good debate, classic cbub. After reading the sides, I think Fox is a 70/30 favorite in my mind. He’s seemingly better/faster/better equipped hand to hand and should be able to incapacitate Mando. 
 

The forest fire seems less important to me. I think Fox can win without having to resort to a devastating fire starter.

[Twogunkid]

I'll give my final two cents then as well.

Fox is not without his fair share of gadgets to counter some of Mando's tricks. The best way for Mando to level the forest is with the Razor Crest  or the N-1 and Fox wins ship combat handily.

Experience

Fox has engaged in prolonged ground campaigns on Sauria and against the Aparoids going up against foes who Mando has needed help to beat and greater numbers than Mando ever has. Fox is a leader of his space mercenary company. Mando is a follower of his. Fox further takes on impossible missions on the regular and has the determination and willpower to see to it Mando is taken down.

Firepower

Fox's bigger and more varied arsenal helps him out a lot. The fact that the standard blasters of both favor Fox as he can charge more powerful shots that Mando cannot. Their arsenal's item for item match up, but Fox's is bigger.

Mobility and Camouflage

Both have access to jetpacks, but Fox is faster than Mando and Mando is going to stick out like a sore thumb in that kind of chrome outfit. Fox can use the woodland terrain to his advantage and keep the pressure on Mando while Mando struggles to keep up with him.

[DSkillz]

Man, this looks like a tough one. 

I've been keeping in mind that the goal isn't necessarily winning a straight-up fight, but whether the animal can chase the hunter out of the forest before the hunter burns it all down. It could be close, but I think Fox just may be able to pull it off, especially since it's been mentioned that Din isn't the type to do the deforestation thing. 

The fight definitely doesn't end there, though. 

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Din Djarin: 5
Fox McCloud: 11

[Mercenaryblade]

This match ruined Star Wars for me worse than anything in the Sequel trilogy. 

Because until now I never realized how incomprehensibly dumb it is that we don't see fires caused by errant blasterfire. Maybe some new show will have that happen and I shall return to this out of pure pettiness. 

[Twogunkid]

5 minutes ago, Mercenaryblade said:

This match ruined Star Wars for me worse than anything in the Sequel trilogy. 

Because until now I never realized how incomprehensibly dumb it is that we don't see fires caused by errant blasterfire. Maybe some new show will have that happen and I shall return to this out of pure pettiness. 

Sorry about it. I never put thought into it either, but if it makes you feel better. The scene where Leia is shot in Return of the Jedi her cloak has a tiny flame on it for like two frames. I found it after our match, so we can get up to three blaster fires.