The Perfect Team: The Villains Finals (Skirmisher)

[Nesh]

1) That doesn't prove anything, How much faster is one than the other? It never states that for a fact, for all you know they could only be 1 m/s faster than the other after that ONE actual speed feat.

 

2) They also knew that since 17 and 18 were androids that they had that type of defence. They don't know that about the other fighters and would not think about it, as the only thing that they consider powerful is Ki, hell even the Androids used Ki attacks.

 

3) Same as above, and from the look of my fighters he wouldn't care if they are hiding it, as they wouldn't even look like they are hiding it. IIRC someone who's smart enough can still Identify that someone else is hiding their Ki. My fighting are not hiding Ki because they can't and don't have any in large enough quantities to actually look like they could pose a threat.

 

4) Not when they can't speed blitz as fast as you want them to.

 

 

 

But he doesn't go between Actual Physical Universe Planets, he takes a Short Cut through the Other World, another Dimension, and there he doesn't need to travel FTL as it would be like a Wormhole.

There is no proof that the distance between King Kais planet and Namek is less than that of Earth and the only reason he need to go there in the first place is because hecouldn't sense the Namekians ki and King Kai's planet is specail as it allows one to sense ki from anywere in the glaxy it has nothing to do with the sepeed of the technique.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

I said you can't make a beam of light go faster than a beam of light and that the lightspeed thing was a dub error.

 

If that's the case, then you can't make anything go FTL.

[Nesh]

If that's the case, then you can't make anything go FTL.

No ligt van't go faster than itself but that doesn't stop anything else from moving faster.

[Guest DataSnake]

1) That doesn't prove anything, How much faster is one than the other? It never states that for a fact, for all you know they could only be 1 m/s faster than the other after that ONE actual speed feat.

Not really. We don't know the exact number, but it DOES have to be multiplicative, and by a fairly significant factor, to give the effect we see in those examples. For those calcs, I used the LOWEST value that would fit that. Still, just for the sake of argument, let's reduce it to 3. That still yields a speed of 2,872c.

 

2) They also knew that since 17 and 18 were androids that they had that type of defence. They don't know that about the other fighters and would not think about it, as the only thing that they consider powerful is Ki, hell even the Androids used Ki attacks.

They learned that beings whose ki they could not sense were still formidable.

 

3) Same as above, and from the look of my fighters he wouldn't care if they are hiding it, as they wouldn't even look like they are hiding it. IIRC someone who's smart enough can still Identify that someone else is hiding their Ki. My fighting are not hiding Ki because they can't and don't have any in large enough quantities to actually look like they could pose a threat.

He couldn't predict how much stronger Gohan would get the first time, and he paid the price. He would not make the same mistake again.

 

4) Not when they can't speed blitz as fast as you want them to.

They could.

[Skirmisher]

There is no proof that the distance between King Kais planet and Namek is less than that of Earth and the only reason he need to go there in the first place is because hecouldn't sense the Namekians ki and King Kai's planet is specail as it allows one to sense ki from anywere in the glaxy it has nothing to do with the sepeed of the technique.

But he still makes a Way stop in the other world on the way between.

 

Besides, the Other World is in ANOTHER DIMENSION, the same laws as the Real World Need not apply there. Hell People that are Dead are walking around there!

 

Yet another Fact is that King Kais World seems to only be a Couple months journey away while walking and running. As well, due to the fact that it IS another dimension Namek could be EXCEPTIONALLY closer to the king Kais Planet than to Earth!

[Nesh]

But he still makes a Way stop in the other world on the way between.

 

Besides, the Other World is in ANOTHER DIMENSION, the same laws as the Real World Need not apply there. Hell People that are Dead are walking around there!

 

Yet another Fact is that King Kais World seems to only be a Couple months journey away while walking and running. As well, due to the fact that it IS another dimension Namek could be EXCEPTIONALLY closer to the king Kais Planet than to Earth!

Okay How about this, in the Buu Saga Goku it'd to the Supreme Kai's Planet wich is in the phisical universe and much farther away than Namek in one go.

[Guest MarvelFan15]

No ligt van't go faster than itself but that doesn't stop anything else from moving faster.

 

So, in the DBZ universe, light is the only thing bound by physics?

[Skirmisher]

Not really. We don't know the exact number, but it DOES have to be multiplicative, and by a fairly significant factor, to give the effect we see in those examples. For those calcs, I used the LOWEST value that would fit that. Still, just for the sake of argument, let's reduce it to 3. That still yields a speed of 2,872c.

 

They learned that beings whose ki they could not sense were still formidable.

 

He couldn't predict how much stronger Gohan would get the first time, and he paid the price. He would not make the same mistake again.

 

They could.

1) But what if the Numbers are not Multiplicative! What if they are just a Series! A is 2, B > A and is 3, C > B and is 4.

 

Not: A is 2, B > A and is 4, C > B and is 8

 

2) But only the Fighters, look what they thought of Babidi, somewhat formidable but they never gave him a second though, concentrating only on his hentchmen when they should have been able to easily swoop in for the kill. This is the Disdain they show for those that do not have Ki, and cannot provide a fight up to their Standard! and it will be their undoing here.

 

3) Oh but he could predict, He knew Gohan was going to get stronger, and kept prodding him. He understood that Gohan had untapped potential and sought to release it.

 

4) I have been proving otherwise.

[Nesh]

So, in the DBZ universe, light is the only thing bound by physics?

No different than any other fictional univers. *shrugs*

[Skirmisher]

Okay How about this, in the Buu Saga Goku it'd to the Supreme Kai's Planet wich is in the phisical universe and much farther away than Namek in one go.

But it isn't, the Kais world is in the Other World. As denoted by the Grand Tournament they had there!

[Guest MarvelFan15]

No different than any other fictional univers. *shrugs*

 

True...

[Guest ricrery]

Can Horus summon a warp storm to keep Vegito from bouncing all over the place? I know that Horus can teleport on a whim. DBZ is not beyond light speed. IT = lightspeed by Supreme Kai's statement.

[Nesh]

Can Horus summon a warp storm to keep Vegito from bouncing all over the place? I know that Horus can teleport on a whim. DBZ is not beyond light speed. IT = lightspeed by Supreme Kai's statement.

The Supreme Kai never made a statement IT. Supreme Kai did have a technique called Instantaneous Movement. Instantaneous Movement is a technique that allows its user to instantly teleport to another planet. Unlike Instant Transmission, the user does not actually need to focus on a specific energy signature to use as a target. That's the only difference between the two.

 

Plus there's this manga scan:

Here. Supreme Kai could clearly sense Goku's Power but made no later mention of Gotenks' power unaided while he was in another dimension (Hyperbolic Time Chamber.) telling me that Earth and the Supreme Kai's planet is in the same dimension.

[Guest ricrery]

Post destruction of the earth, Supreme Kai says that after Kid Buu uses IT that he can travel at the speed of light.

[Nesh]

Post destruction of the earth, Supreme Kai says that after Kid Buu uses IT that he can travel at the speed of light.

Here to prove you wrong I have to consecutive manga pages.

 

Vol. 42 ch. 7 page 7 Vol 42 ch. 7 page 8

 

No mention of Instant Transmission's speed.

[Guest ricrery]

In the episode where Buu destroys Earth, it goes something like this:

 

"Did you see that?" -Vegeta

 

"Yeah, he used instant transmission." -Goku

 

"But how could he have learned it that fast, now he can travel at the speed of light!" - Supreme Kai

 

So, if we go by the anime showing off Kid Buu busting galaxies to the manga showing Kid Buu busting hundreds of planets in a few years, it would suggest that... damn it I have no idea where I'm going with this, but if the GEoM could conquer billions of worlds in a few hundred years, then he most certainly destroy them in a few hundred years. Horus = GEoM clone = stronger than Vegito or Kid Buu.

[Nesh]

In the episode where Buu destroys Earth, it goes something like this:

 

"Did you see that?" -Vegeta

 

"Yeah, he used instant transmission." -Goku

 

"But how could he have learned it that fast, now he can travel at the speed of light!" - Supreme Kai

 

So, if we go by the anime showing off Kid Buu busting galaxies to the manga showing Kid Buu busting hundreds of planets in a few years, it would suggest that... damn it I have no idea where I'm going with this, but if the GEoM could conquer billions of worlds in a few hundred years, then he most certainly destroy them in a few hundred years. Horus = GEoM clone = stronger than Vegito or Kid Buu.

Vegito's a heck of a lot stronger than kid Buu, I was just negating your staement about instant transmission. The manga is the definitive canon. In the anime Buu also blew several planet before appearing on the planet of the Kais. From those scans alone IT's an instant teleportation.

[Skirmisher]

Vegito's a heck of a lot stronger than kid Buu, I was just negating your staement about instant transmission. The manga is the definitive canon. In the anime Buu also blew several planet before appearing on the planet of the Kais. From those scans alone IT's an instant teleportation.

Instant Transmission is quite Different from Instantaneous Movement.

 

And for all we know there is no Speed of Light limiter on it. However IT has been Stated within Canon that it only travels AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. This doesn't speak well for the fact that IT is supposed to be Much Faster than just Super Speed.

 

As for you Continued Claim that the Kais planet is in Our Dimension... Well here you go...

 

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Kai_Planet

 

"The Sacred World of the Kais (Kaioshinkai) is a planet in Other World where the Supreme Kais reside."

 

"The Sacred World of the Kais is where the Supreme Kai and his bodyguard Kibito live"

 

"The Sacred World of the Kais is where the four Supreme Kais and the Grand Supreme Kai used to live, and possibly every single Supreme Kai has lived."

 

"The Planet of the Kai's seems to be a very empty place; for a large planet, not many reside on it. This may be because of the planet's sacredness, or because it is very difficult to get there, as it took Goku a while to find Gohan in Other World"

 

 

Do you still claim that the Kais world is in our Dimension?

[Guest Zreth]

Hey, Skirm why are they sort of focusing on debating yours and leaving me empty handed?

[Skirmisher]

Hey, Skirm why are they sort of focusing on debating yours and leaving me empty handed?

Because I don't have a Temporal Trump Card? ... That and I'm attacking their Speed, without which they cannot win.

[Nesh]

Instant Transmission is quite Different from Instantaneous Movement.

 

And for all we know there is no Speed of Light limiter on it. However IT has been Stated within Canon that it only travels AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. This doesn't speak well for the fact that IT is supposed to be Much Faster than just Super Speed.

 

As for you Continued Claim that the Kais planet is in Our Dimension... Well here you go...

 

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Kai_Planet

 

"The Sacred World of the Kais (Kaioshinkai) is a planet in Other World where the Supreme Kais reside."

 

"The Sacred World of the Kais is where the Supreme Kai and his bodyguard Kibito live"

 

"The Sacred World of the Kais is where the four Supreme Kais and the Grand Supreme Kai used to live, and possibly every single Supreme Kai has lived."

 

"The Planet of the Kai's seems to be a very empty place; for a large planet, not many reside on it. This may be because of the planet's sacredness, or because it is very difficult to get there, as it took Goku a while to find Gohan in Other World"

 

 

Do you still claim that the Kais world is in our Dimension?

Yes I do, the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is in another dimension an you can not IT out or in. You can It to the World of the Kais and other Places in Other World. The only Difference between IT and IM is the lack of need to sense ki.

[Nesh]

Because I don't have a Temporal Trump Card? ... That and I'm attacking their Speed, without which they cannot win.

Her, the Manga scan of the Trunks scene:

 

This proves my point.

 

The Japanese name for Instant Transmission is translated as Instant Movement, as stated on the scan. This means that your referenced anime lines were dub errors.

[Skirmisher]

Yes I do, the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is in another dimension an you can not IT out or in. You can It to the World of the Kais and other Places in Other World. The only Difference between IT and IM is the lack of need to sense ki.

Do you think that the reason that you can't IT out of HbTC is that there is a Very Large Temporal Distortion that has to be overcome?

 

As for the Fact of the Kais planet being in the Other World... Once again, I say that the Laws of Physics May be different there since it is Not our Dimension!

 

Light speed may be different there, or even not be as binding a law as our reality. Then again, since Distance is moot in the Other World, and cannot be proven, there is no reason to assume that the distance between the actual planets is anything great enough to require FTL speeds, and that actual Light Speed would be enough.

 

Once Again I also say that Instantaneous Movement has also never demonstrated Extreme FTL speeds. It has been able to do exactly what IT has done and take a "Wormhole" through the Other World to shorten the Actual Travel Distance down to a much more manageable level.

[Nesh]

Do you think that the reason that you can't IT out of HbTC is that there is a Very Large Temporal Distortion that has to be overcome?

 

As for the Fact of the Kais planet being in the Other World... Once again, I say that the Laws of Physics May be different there since it is Not our Dimension!

 

Light speed may be different there, or even not be as binding a law as our reality. Then again, since Distance is moot in the Other World, and cannot be proven, there is no reason to assume that the distance between the actual planets is anything great enough to require FTL speeds, and that actual Light Speed would be enough.

 

Once Again I also say that Instantaneous Movement has also never demonstrated Extreme FTL speeds. It has been able to do exactly what IT has done and take a "Wormhole" through the Other World to shorten the Actual Travel Distance down to a much more manageable level.

And you ignore the manga scan that makes no mention of lightspeed.

[Skirmisher]

And you ignore the manga scan that makes no mention of lightspeed.

As it does not Actually contradict the Higher Canon Source it is therefore Canon, and supplements the Full Canon of the Series.