.....

[The Void]

....

[C.T.]

I think you have the adjectives mixed up.

[corvette1710]

I've PMed the arsenal to you, and I'll start off.

 

First, Punisher shoots Cassandra. She can't dodge bullets, and Punisher's a damn good shot (plus, his guns can get through the Bat-suit she has)

 

Then, Black Panther is swiftly distracted by a hail of bullets to all sides, and in the midst of it, a white phosphorous grenade is thrown towards him. Cap can basically sit back and watch as the phosphorous burns through the suit, ignoring the weave.

[The Void]

I think you have the adjectives mixed up.

 

 

I named corvette underdog because he was able to win his first match with less physically superior characters. Thats why....

[C.T.]

So?

[The Void]

I've PMed the arsenal to you, and I'll start off.

 

First, Punisher shoots Cassandra. She can't dodge bullets, and Punisher's a damn good shot (plus, his guns can get through the Bat-suit she has)

 

Um...No. Cassandra Cain has easily dodged bullets with complete ease. It was said that she has meta-human reflexes and to be a bullet timer. I'll even show you some examples.

 

 

Also here she dodges sniper without even looking.

 

Also Batgirl can read body movements once Frank goes for the trigger, that when she will react. Anyways I'm most likely going to send  Cass after Cap.

 

 

Then, Black Panther is swiftly distracted by a hail of bullets to all sides, and in the midst of it, a white phosphorous grenade is thrown towards him. Cap can basically sit back and watch as the phosphorous burns through the suit, ignoring the weave.

 

T'Challa suit has taken car explosions, chi attacks from Iron Fist and current Black Panther(now upgraded to superhuman) has taken a blast from Phoenix Namor and his suit was still intact.

 

The Bullets of Frank wont effect the suit since it will just bounce off. And what will Frank do against Panthers energy daggers and teleporting  device and many others.

[corvette1710]

I'm not talking about shooting T'Challa, I'm talking about stopping him from moving while I drop a grenade that will go through his suit (and white phosphorous would indeed do that). And if need be, Punisher can cook it for long enough that as soon as it hits T'Challa (and since T'Challa has no prep/prior knowledge of what Punisher's using, he'll probably figure he can tank it.

 

As for Cass vs Cap, Cap is superior physically, and while he doesn't have precognition, he'll figure out that Cass can sense what he's about to do fairly quickly. Plus, he can fight for longer than her if need be.

 

In addition to the last point made, Cass won't stand up to Cap's points-- she's vulnerable to being convinced not to fight (and Cap probably won't want to fight her, depending on when Pre-Flashpoint you pulled her from, I'm assuming most recent). He'll see her as misguided and a good ally, and will try to stop her from attacking him/Punisher.

 

If shit really hits the fan, Punisher can take her down while she's distracted talking to Cap (since at such a point, he'd be finished with T'Challa).

 

EDIT: And Punisher's tagged Spidey, who's > Cass in agility and mobility. With pistols.

[The Void]

Sorry I took long to respond. Was out somewhere.

I'm not talking about shooting T'Challa, I'm talking about stopping him from moving while I drop a grenade that will go through his suit (and white phosphorous would indeed do that). And if need be, Punisher can cook it for long enough that as soon as it hits T'Challa (and since T'Challa has no prep/prior knowledge of what Punisher's using, he'll probably figure he can tank it.

How will the grenade go through his suit? Just asking  Also T'Challa suit has survived a car explosion while he was in a car and his suit didn't burn. True T'Challa has no prep or knowledge of the weapons Punisher will be brining to the table. But from what I've seen T'Challa is a better tactician and strategist compared to Frank, I don't think he will just try ti tank it. T'Challa doesn't act like that. Also you are forgetting that T'Challa now has a teleporting device. Not only that, but superhuman reflexes. 

 

T'Challa will know not to underestimate Frank. How will Frank deal with T'Challa's energy daggers which can be both used as melee and projectile and if Frank is hit with one of these he is toast. Not only that but his cloaking device.

 

 

As for Cass vs Cap, Cap is superior physically, and while he doesn't have precognition, he'll figure out that Cass can sense what he's about to do fairly quickly. Plus, he can fight for longer than her if need be.

1. The only thing Cap is superior to Cass in is strength. She beats him both in speed and martial arts skills.

2. Cass has ways to quickly take Cap out...One being pressure points. She is way to fast for Cap, neither Deathstroke or Batman were able to land a hit on her.

 

In addition to the last point made, Cass won't stand up to Cap's points-- she's vulnerable to being convinced not to fight (and Cap probably won't want to fight her, depending on when Pre-Flashpoint you pulled her from, I'm assuming most recent). He'll see her as misguided and a good ally, and will try to stop her from attacking him/Punisher.

Um...Cap in the beginning would most likely not want to fight T'Challa since both are best friends. Also I doubt she would stop trying to fight Punisher, since Punisher would want to take out her and T'Challa.

 

 

If shit really hits the fan, Punisher can take her down while she's distracted talking to Cap (since at such a point, he'd be finished with T'Challa).

1. Punsiher would be too  busy with T;Challa.

2. Again with the teleporting device. T'Challa can teleport Frank somewhere far and then double team Cap along side Cass. Cap wouldn't be able to handle both skilled fighters at the same time. T'Challa already beat Cap in a sparring match, though Cap said he wasn't fighting seriously. 

 

EDIT: And Punisher's tagged Spidey, who's > Cass in agility and mobility. With pistols.

Um...Spiderman mostly relies on his Spider senses which can be fooled. While Cass relies on nothing. And Spiderman doesn't have body reading like Cass. Here that was the first thing she knew how to do when she was a baby.

 

Frank won't be able to hit her. Because once he makes a move she will react.

[corvette1710]

In response to your first paragraph, phosphorus is a gas (well, more of a mist), and since BP's suit is neither air nor watertight, it'll be able to get through, and T'Challa won't stop burning once he's hit by it.

 

Yes, the teleportation device could pose a problem, but Punisher has the ability (put basically) to tag people much faster than him or his bullets (i.e., Spider-man, whose tagging you refuted and I will respond to later in this post).

 

Also, yes, the energy daggers could pose a problem as well, but Punisher's arsenal is faster than BP's daggers, and while he has no superhuman reflexes, he's quite able to avoid BP with the environment, especially after it's half destroyed by the phosphorus (which would probably still be burning at the point that they go into H2H).

 

Punisher, in his arsenal that I sent you, has knives, and if he pays attention he'll probably see BP guarding against his vertical/horizontal strikes, and then he'd get to thinking (assuming he'd last that long as in most cases, Panther would defeat him, yes) and eventually come to that conclusion.

 

Now, that isn't a guaranteed win, but it's something to consider.

 

Now for Cap vs Cass.

 

It's kind of funny that you mention her bullet dodging (humanly impossible) from a sniper rifle (which at that distance the hitman didn't need, also several times humanly impossible), while wikia lists her as peak human... just shows DCNU has no peak human. >.>

 

Anyway, Cap is faster than Cassandra. I'll show you.

 

You can clearly see the bullets are fired, and that Cap (from the side of Red Skull) comes in front of the people to block the bullets. This literally means he's running faster than a bullet.

 

Tricks Spider-man into exposing his back with a distraction:

 

Not sure if this is PIS but:

He throws the shield fast enough to catch up to a rocket, which is faster than any bullet. (Considering he catches the shield after he throws it as well, not necessarily at that speed but the fact that he's capable of doing it is what counts).

 

So I think he'd be faster than Cain with better reflexes as well.

 

Also, when Punisher hits Spidey (on two occasions that I remember from my debate with Xenerack), he isn't fooling the Spider-sense. He shot off the webshooters midair with a pistol, and in a different instance kicked Spider-man in the face after some sort of explosion.

[The Void]

In response to your first paragraph, phosphorus is a gas (well, more of a mist), and since BP's suit is neither air nor watertight, it'll be able to get through, and T'Challa won't stop burning once he's hit by it.

What do you mean by air or watertight(Correct me if I'm wrong), Because I believe T'Challa's suit has an air filter.

^^^ In the scan it says..."My guess is your uniform uses chemical gates as filters so my little gas trick is wasted on you."

 

She then had to use acid instead...Again correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Anyhow T'Challa would be easily able to dodge it. He has superhuman reflexes and speed. Even without the heart shaped herb and recent upgrade by the Panther god when he was not enhanched, he was still stated to be peak human...

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/Comics/2710470-bptmwf_515_0004_super_zps4de8099e.jpg

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/Comics/2710471-bptmwf_515_0005_super_zps7c773ded.jpg

 

 

 

Frank won't be able to land a direct hit. Because one of T'Challa's fighting styles is that he moves around a lot using his agility. He will also be on walls and ceilings thanks to his sole boots and anti metal claws. He has kept up with people like Spider-Man and Beast. And he Wolverine and Sabretooth were even surprised by his speed. When T'Challa see's Frank using the grenade he will react fast, because that's what T'Challa does, 

 

 

Yes, the teleportation device could pose a problem, but Punisher has the ability (put basically) to tag people much faster than him or his bullets (i.e., Spider-man, whose tagging you refuted and I will respond to later in this post).

Not trying to down play Spider-Man. But T'Challa is a much better strategist and tactician than Spider-man. He is leader of a warrior nation. I would even say he is a better strategist and tactician than Batman. From what I've seen, Black Panther has outsmarted much deadlier people than Frank. T'Challa has outsmarted Mephisto, Silver Surfer(no talking about that arm bar situation), Kingpin(I believe Frank lost to him and T'Challa wasn't even enhanced), Doctor Doom,  Tony Stark, The Fantastic Four and the list goes on...

 

IIRC and please correct me wrong, but from what I've seen Peter usually underestimates Frank. I remember in my Batman vs. Punisher thread. There was a scan of Frank fighting Daredevil, Wolverine and Spider-man. Peter just rushed in the room with explosions without even thinking about the dangers Frank poses. T'Challa won't do that, he won't underestimate Frank. You're talking about the 8th smartest person here. What T'Challa would do is use his teleportation as part of his strategy  Frank won't even know what hit him. He can teleport behind Frank and hit him with a pressure point strick(If he doesn't wont to kill him), a energy dagger or crush Franks skull with his sole boots.

 

 

Also, yes, the energy daggers could pose a problem as well, but Punisher's arsenal is faster than BP's daggers, and while he has no superhuman reflexes, he's quite able to avoid BP with the environment, especially after it's half destroyed by the phosphorus (which would probably still be burning at the point that they go into H2H).

Good point with Franks arsenal being faster. But T'Challa can also swarm the daggers.

Can Frank react to this? And if Frank goes H2H it would be a death sentence for him. Franks best bet in this match would be to stay long range, but that can be countered.

 

 

Punisher, in his arsenal that I sent you, has knives, and if he pays attention he'll probably see BP guarding against his vertical/horizontal strikes, and then he'd get to thinking (assuming he'd last that long as in most cases, Panther would defeat him, yes) and eventually come to that conclusion.

 

Now, that isn't a guaranteed win, but it's something to consider.

I see.

 

 

Now for Cap vs Cass.

 

It's kind of funny that you mention her bullet dodging (humanly impossible) from a sniper rifle (which at that distance the hitman didn't need, also several times humanly impossible), while wikia lists her as peak human... just shows DCNU has no peak human. >.>

 

Anyway, Cap is faster than Cassandra. I'll show you.

 

You can clearly see the bullets are fired, and that Cap (from the side of Red Skull) comes in front of the people to block the bullets. This literally means he's running faster than a bullet.

 

Tricks Spider-man into exposing his back with a distraction:

 

Not sure if this is PIS but:

He throws the shield fast enough to catch up to a rocket, which is faster than any bullet. (Considering he catches the shield after he throws it as well, not necessarily at that speed but the fact that he's capable of doing it is what counts).

So I think he'd be faster than Cain with better reflexes as well. 

 

 

Show me Cap doing speed/reflexes like these...

 

Dodges bullets point blank.

 

 

Moves so fast that she's like the Flash...

 

Avoids Superboys speed blitz.

 

She has the reaction speed and skill to catch several shuriken with her fingers.

 

Your last scan seems more of a strength feat and I think DC listed her as a meta human.  

 

And again how will Cap coup with her body reading? That's going to pose a lot of trouble for Cap. Just read this full panel on how it really works.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/2532/1017659-876750_batgirl47_pyrate_14_super.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Also, when Punisher hits Spidey (on two occasions that I remember from my debate with Xenerack), he isn't fooling the Spider-sense. He shot off the webshooters midair with a pistol, and in a different instance kicked Spider-man in the face after some sort of explosion."

 

1. Spiderman was in mid air and Frank has good aim.

2. Maybe the explosion slowed him down or something...People like Rhino,Kingpin,Daredevil,Green Goblin,etc were able to land hits on Spiderman when he is off his game. I doubt Frank would be able to tag a bloodlusted Spiderman. Like the one who beat Kingpin to death..

[corvette1710]

I'm about to do homework (so not posting a big post), but a bloodlusted Spidey would be easy to tag... essentially, he'd be going straight for Frank if he were, maxing out his webshooters... but at a point that Spidey's bloodlusted, Frank would know he's pissed at him, and prepare accordingly; i.e., some sort of flashbang weapon (or extremely loud or bright, or like the flashbang: a combination) and would end up having to kill Spider-man.

 

That's all for now, but I'll be coming back soon.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Weeeeeellllll... if bloodlusted Spidey vs Kingpin in Back In Black is anything to go by, it's actually harder to tag Spidey while he's bloodlusted. Poor guy couldn't land a single hit. e.e

[corvette1710]

Going to address Cap vs Cain first.

 

Well... he's *fake word*ed Carnage, who can do the same thing.

 

Also, bullets don't blur, as Cassandra did. Remembering the scan where he outran a pistol bullet with Red Skull. That exceeds her speed, right there.

 

Also, Superboy missed his initial target, and was trying not to hit her. Just for the record, she still dodged it, yes, but it isn't nearly as impressive as if he was actually trying to speedily blitz her.

 

Also, this:

He has essentially the same lines of movement as Cass.

Then there's here, this scan, where he's falling and manages to block bullets coming from both sides.

 

He appears to dodge bullets here, but I can't tell for sure if it isn't aim dodging.

 

So yes, Cass is slower than Cap in reaction time/overall speed.

 

Punisher post coming up next.

[The Void]

^^^None of those scans prove Cap has better speed or reflexes than Cass. Show me Cap moving like Flash or dodging bullets point blank like this...

 

 

How is she slower than Cap in reaction speed, when her reaction speed is much better than Cap and I've never seen Cap dodge bullets point blank.

 

Also this...

 

 

^^^Dodges multiples bullets AFTER fired.

^^She even manages to cause the Trigger Twins to shoot each other.

 

Deathstroke who is a skilled marksman can't even hit her.

 

So again how is she slower than Cap?

[corvette1710]

I quite literally just did... he outran a pistol bullet. That > point blank dodge.

 

Also, with the Trigger Twins scan, that's aim dodging. He says he can't get a bead on her.

 

In the Deathstroke scan: Once more, aim dodging and he does manage to hit her (her ear on the bat-suit). Then he distracts her with the explosion in the last panel, and I'm assuming she escaped or he kicked her ass. I'm not sure as I haven't read that comic.

 

As for the scan on the (cargo boat? Cargo loading dock?), that's once more a pistol round (which Cap can see faster than and he's stated as such).

[The Void]

I quite literally just did... he outran a pistol bullet. That > point blank dodge.

 

Um..Many people have outran bullets. People like Batman. Or are you saying that he is faster than a bullet? Which non of your scans indicated. 

 

Also dodging a bullet point blank shows Cass has better reflexes and reaction time compared to Cap...

 

Also, with the Trigger Twins scan, that's aim dodging. He says he can't get a bead on her.

Okay.

 

In the Deathstroke scan: Once more, aim dodging and he does manage to hit her (her ear on the bat-suit). Then he distracts her with the explosion in the last panel, and I'm assuming she escaped or he kicked her ass. I'm not sure as I haven't read that comic.

 

It didn't look like aim dodging.

As for the scan on the (cargo boat? Cargo loading dock?), that's once more a pistol round (which Cap can see faster than and he's stated as such).

I can barely read what that scan says. I have bad eye sght. But I'll take your word. Anyways Cap is still not that much faster than Cass. 

[corvette1710]

Who in the hell do you know who can outrun a bullet? Batman's never outran a bullet, lol... Look at the scan for a few moments. I'll break it down:

 

Cap bashes Skull into the wall, he falls next to him. Skull gets up, pulling out a pistol and aims, then fires at the duo in the corner. You can clearly see the edge of Cap's shield to the bottom left. The next scan (right and towards the top) you see Cap blocking the bullets. That means he had to have been moving faster from one side of the room to the other than the bullets.

 

Also heh, I haven't posted the scan where Cap says he can see faster than bullets, but I can if you want me to prove it?

 

Also, in the scan with Deathstroke, it is most likely aim dodging, for a couple reasons: You can already see the holes that are in her cape (meaning she had to have been moving before the bullets, which is what her body-reading does), and the fact that Deathstroke adjusts his aim every time she moves (when he hits her "ear").

[The Void]

Who in the hell do you know who can outrun a bullet? Batman's never outran a bullet, lol... Look at the scan for a few moments. I'll break it down:

 

Cap bashes Skull into the wall, he falls next to him. Skull gets up, pulling out a pistol and aims, then fires at the duo in the corner. You can clearly see the edge of Cap's shield to the bottom left. The next scan (right and towards the top) you see Cap blocking the bullets. That means he had to have been moving faster from one side of the room to the other than the bullets.

 

I didn't say Batman was faster than a bullet.

 

I read the scan again and what makes you think Cass can't do the same thing? She has been stated to have meta-human speed. Cass Dodges bullets at point blank with the gun to her forehead. Shouldn't she be able to outrun bullets too?

 

Also heh, I haven't posted the scan where Cap says he can see faster than bullets, but I can if you want me to prove it?

 

Go ahead. I already showed Cass dodging a sniper without even looking and the bullet was inches away from her.

Also, in the scan with Deathstroke, it is most likely aim dodging, for a couple reasons: You can already see the holes that are in her cape (meaning she had to have been moving before the bullets, which is what her body-reading does), and the fact that Deathstroke adjusts his aim every time she moves (when he hits her "ear").

 

Still Deathstroke is a skilled marksman.

[corvette1710]

What I mean by air/watertight is repelling gases or liquids from entering the suit. You've provided evidence enough for a gas, but phosphorus in the state that it's in in a grenade like Frank's is a liquid (technically).

 

Though, there is a chance it would get through the filter as it chemically combusts when it comes into contact with oxygen, literally frying the filter and disabling it... leaving T'Challa to breathe in fire that wouldn't go out.

 

On another hand, Frank can likely dodge the daggers even in a horizontal swarm like that one that you've posted, but I'd still give most fights to Panther... even though were Punisher to detonate a frag grenade near T'Challa, the force would propel him in a direction away from the explosion, possibly a trap Punisher had set in the midst of their battle (like the phosphorus, as a mine or something to that effect).

[The Void]

Yo Corvette I'll post to your post later on. I have to be out somewhere.

 

Good debating though.

[The Void]

What I mean by air/watertight is repelling gases or liquids from entering the suit. You've provided evidence enough for a gas, but phosphorus in the state that it's in in a grenade like Frank's is a liquid (technically).

 

Though, there is a chance it would get through the filter as it chemically combusts when it comes into contact with oxygen, literally frying the filter and disabling it... leaving T'Challa to breathe in fire that wouldn't go out.

 

Well when its donated it does look like a gas.

And I did some research....Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I said its like a smoke. I think the filters in the suit can stop the explosion.  Also in the scan I posted, it did say the suit used 'chemical gates' as filters. So may be the chemicals in the suit would stop it? Also Panther has survived a car explosion and the suit wasn't even burned. I'll post scans if you like.

 

 

 

On another hand, Frank can likely dodge the daggers even in a horizontal swarm like that one that you've posted, but I'd still give most fights to Panther... even though were Punisher to detonate a frag grenade near T'Challa, the force would propel him in a direction away from the explosion, possibly a trap Punisher had set in the midst of their battle (like the phosphorus, as a mine or something to that effect).

 

Good point about the traps. But Panther has a cloaking device now. I wanted to at that.

http://i1050.photobu...zps9fb1b9c3.jpg

http://i1050.photobu...zps3bf07fff.jpg

 

^^^Now it would probably be even more difficult for Frank, because now Panther has the attack of surprise advantage. As for the energy daggers, Frank would have to be on the move a lot. As for the grenade, Frank would have to hit him first since Panther would be moving around a lot.

 

Anyways I'll BRB to continue have to go somewhere yet again.

[corvette1710]

While this doesn't necessarily pertain to all bullets, it certainly goes for submachine gun/pistol rounds.

 

Also, if you'll look up weaponized phosphorus, it's actually mist (which are droplets of liquid in the air fine enough to float... not a gas).

 

Mist =/= Smoke.

 

Hm, is the slight white outline/yellow glow for the viewers' sake? If not, that's a pretty primitive cloaking device.

 

Eh, Frank's agile enough to load in something to a heavier gun, like the Browning I mentioned in the list, and that should be enough to keep T'Challa at bay for as long as it takes to divert his attention... maybe with a collapsing roof or something.

 

EDIT: Also, this:

 

EDIT2: Also, in the scan where she's being sniped? You can see her pupil going towards the bullet in the last two close-up scans. Hence, not without looking.

[The Void]

While this doesn't necessarily pertain to all bullets, it certainly goes for submachine gun/pistol rounds.

 

Also, if you'll look up weaponized phosphorus, it's actually mist (which are droplets of liquid in the air fine enough to float... not a gas).

 

Mist =/= Smoke.

 

Frank will still have to land a hit. Panther can easily teleport away to dodge it. 

 

The scan is impressive. But I bet Cass can see faster too. She was stated to have meta human agility and reflexes. If she can dodge bullets at point blank than that must be true. When have we seen Cap move like this?

 

In terms of speed/agility/reflexes Cap really doesn't have a advantage over her. I'm just saying that for now.

 

Hm, is the slight white outline/yellow glow for the viewers' sake? If not, that's a pretty primitive cloaking device.

 

Eh, Frank's agile enough to load in something to a heavier gun, like the Browning I mentioned in the list, and that should be enough to keep T'Challa at bay for as long as it takes to divert his attention... maybe with a collapsing roof or something.

 

^^^Read this...It was by the writer. He was completely invisible. 

 

Also how will he keep Panther at bay when Panther can just teleport right behind him? Panther can in this quick by teleporting right behind him and ending him with a dagger or anti metal claws. Panther wouldn't even have to kill Frank with the daggers. The daggers have two levels. One for stunning and paralyzing and the second one for killing.

 

 

EDIT: Also, this:

Impressive. But I believe Cass can do the same.

 

Right here stated to have super speed.

 

EDIT2: Also, in the scan where she's being sniped? You can see her pupil going towards the bullet in the last two close-up scans. Hence, not without looking.

 

Her pupil were toward the bullet at the last minute when it was inches away from her...

[corvette1710]

He could, but since by the time Frank absolutely has to get in close, he'd have rigged several explosive charges that Panther quite basically wouldn't detect (unless... does he have a metal detector in that suit of his?!). Once Panther tries to get in close, Frank'd lead him into the charges if at all possible, and while I agree that in most cases Panther would win, Frank has the tactical knowledge to win... 3 or 4/10 times.

 

Secondly, in the first two scans of post number thirteen of this thread (I don't really feel like reposting the scans as they're already there), Cap moves in a similar fashion, with the lines of movement/blur following him around as he runs/attacks/dodges, etc.

 

Also, you still haven't refuted/opposed his speed blitzing Carnage, who's superior to them both in every way.

 

Ah, indeed. It's rather funny because the only thing she has is body-reading... which shouldn't grant her those types of augments but somehow do.

 

Anyway, my point wasn't that she didn't dodge it, it's that she was looking at some point before "connection."

[The Void]

Sorry I took long to respend to post. Been tired as *vulgarity* lately. Anyways.

He could, but since by the time Frank absolutely has to get in close, he'd have rigged several explosive charges that Panther quite basically wouldn't detect (unless... does he have a metal detector in that suit of his?!). Once Panther tries to get in close, Frank'd lead him into the charges if at all possible, and while I agree that in most cases Panther would win, Frank has the tactical knowledge to win... 3 or 4/10 times.

 

Fair point.

 

But Panthers cloaking device and teleporting gives Panther the bigger advantage.

 

Secondly, in the first two scans of post number thirteen of this thread (I don't really feel like reposting the scans as they're already there), Cap moves in a similar fashion, with the lines of movement/blur following him around as he runs/attacks/dodges, etc.

 

That was just to show that Cass can move just as or faster than Cap.

 

Also, you still haven't refuted/opposed his speed blitzing Carnage, who's superior to them both in every way.

Cass has beaten meta humans before just like Cap. She almost killed Supergirl.

 

ALso toy have not porven that Cap has better reaction speed compared to Cass, you have not shown Cap being able to dodge bullets point blank with a gun to his forehead. Again, I'm talking about reaction speed.

 

 

Ah, indeed. It's rather funny because the only thing she has is body-reading... which shouldn't grant her those types of augments but somehow do.

 

Her body reading language is going to make it hell for Cap...

"She can read your intentions before you move."

^^^"The fight was over before her feet touched the ground."

 

Also Cass can use pressure points on Cap like she did to this physically strong Meta Human.

 

Anyway, my point wasn't that she didn't dodge it, it's that she was looking at some point before "connection."

 

 

I know, I was just saying she looked at the bullet at the last minute, after it was fired.

 

Anyways lets take this to a vote.