Match 13399 Horsemen of Apocalypse and X-Men vs. Z Fighters

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

 

 

 

1. Hmmm...Good point.

 

2. I never mentioned energy stealing(as in draining if that is what you mean? But I believe Ms Marvel can energy drain). And how are Gero's and Jinzoningen energy absorbing compared to Ms Marvel's? Ms Marvel can absorb almost limitless amout of energy. IIRC don't their attacks become weaker if they do not power up their Ki?

 

3. The other X-Mens can distract the Z-Fighters. I'm betting they will have part of their hands filled with Rogue and also I forgot to mention would if Rogue still their powers?

 

I meant the whole shibang absorbing,draining, stealng. 19 and 20 could abosrb it to (Though only through there palms) They were never given a set limit 19 absorbed a Kamehameha from SSJ Goku and could still absorb a large amount of energy from SSJ Vegeta, 20 absorbed a causal blast from Vegeta that would have leveled the mountain range they were in and stole Piccolos energy.

 

It depends on who's powers she steals if she takes Yamacha's no one will care lol but if she takes Piccolo's Goten and Trunks would need to fuse if She got Gotenks it could probably give them the win depending on if her powers last longer then a fusion. But it depends on if she can get them.

 

Piccolo can beat a lot of them solo with a 23rd Budokai esc blast (Except Magneto' shields, Colossus and Rouge I think) and non of them excapt Quicksilver should be able to react to them properly.

 

[The Void]

I meant the whole shibang absorbing,draining, stealng. 19 and 20 could abosrb it to (Though only through there palms) They were never given a set limit 19 absorbed a Kamehameha from SSJ Goku and could still absorb a large amount of energy from SSJ Vegeta, 20 absorbed a causal blast from Vegeta that would have leveled the mountain range they were in and stole Piccolos energy.

 

It depends on who's powers she steals if she takes Yamacha's no one will care lol but if she takes Piccolo's Goten and Trunks would need to fuse if She got Gotenks it could probably give them the win depending on if her powers last longer then a fusion. But it depends on if she can get them.

 

IIRC the powers Rogue takes last for a long time and when she takes your power you're knocked unconcious. And Ms Marvel has shown to asborb almost anytype of energy and almost limitless...She doesn't have to get close to them like 19 or 20 all the Z-Fighters have to do is just blast her making her much stronger...

 

If Rogue absorbs too much energy than she will turn into Binary(since she obviously has Ms Marvel's powers) and that would be VERY BAD for the Z-Fighters since Binary has planet busting attacks as shown here.

 

 

Again in comics it has already been shown that if Ms Marvel absorbs too much energy then she will turn into Binary. And again Rogue does have Ms Marvel's powers.

 

Ms Marvel as of yet has not been shown to have a limit of how much energy she can absorb and she has not been overloaded as of yet...

 

Piccolo can beat a lot of them solo with a 23rd Budokai esc blast (Except Magneto' shields, Colossus and Rouge I think) and non of them excapt Quicksilver should be able to react to them properly.

 

I can say the same thing for Storm if the X-men distract the Z-Fighters. If bloodlusted Storm can easily kill them, I mean the Z-Fighters have to breath. You have a point about them speed blitzing Storm, but again the X-Men can distract them especially Magneto, Rogue and Iceman. If Storm does this than it is game over for the Z-Fighter.

 

 

 

^^^I belive they do not have a defense against that...

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

-snip-

Well there is not gonna be much of an issue with her absorbing to much energy as Piccolo explains

If they went unconcious there energy would drop and someone would know and kick Rouge off them.

One blast wouldn't be enough it would be a fraction of there overall power and they would stop shooting her and go for melee and they can punch crap through a planet.

And if she became Binary i don't see how this is a big deal Planet Busting is so far down the DBZ food chain Freeza and his dad treat it as sport.

As does Vegeta

 

 

I can say the same thing for Storm if the X-men distract the Z-Fighters. If bloodlusted Storm can easily kill them, I mean the Z-Fighters have to breath. You have a point about them speed blitzing Storm, but again the X-Men can distract them especially Magneto, Rogue and Iceman. If Storm does this than it is game over for the Z-Fighter.

 

 

 

^^^I belive they do not have a defense against that...

They don't need much oxygen to survive the room of spirit and time only has 1/4th of the oxygen on earth, Bardock was in the most outer atmosphere of Planet Vegeta and Goku went long enough without oxygen to create a plan to drop kick Freeza through some islands. So I think they can go long enough without breathing to beat Storm.

[The Void]

Well there is not gonna be much of an issue with her absorbing to much energy as Piccolo explains

If they went unconcious there energy would drop and someone would know and kick Rouge off them.

One blast wouldn't be enough it would be a fraction of there overall power and they would stop shooting her and go for melee and they can punch crap through a planet.

 

 

And if she became Binary i don't see how this is a big deal Planet Busting is so far down the DBZ food chain Freeza and his dad treat it as sport.

 

A physical fight is not going to do much, Ms Marvel is physically superior to Yamcha,Tien, and Piccolo and even Goten and Trunks. The Z-Fighters the X-men are fighting have not shown they are on the same strength level as Ms Marvel or as durable as Ms Marvel. To me all they really have is energy projection and maybe speed. And like I said before doesn't not using their Ki make their attacks weaker?

 

As does Vegeta

 

I do not get what was the point of you posting these scans...Non of Z-Fighters the X-Men are fighting have shown the take a planet busting attack, non have shown to be planet busters and non have shown to be able to easily take Frieza and maybe his dad(maybe Piccolo or Trunks when he was older). Also non of the Z-Fighers that are fighting the X-Men are even on the same level as Vegeta. Binary on the other hand was bale to tank a attack from the Collector who contained the combined power of all the Omega mutants after M-day...

 

They don't need much oxygen to survive the room of spirit and time only has 1/4th of the oxygen on earth, Bardock was in the most outer atmosphere of Planet Vegeta and Goku went long enough without oxygen to create a plan to drop kick Freeza through some islands. So I think they can go long enough without breathing to beat Storm.

 

Just stating the movie with Bardock wasn't canon and even so they still need oxygen to breath, especailly Yamcha and Tien since they're human...If Storm is really bloodlusted she can completely take it away the Oxygen.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Um, the movie with Bardock was canon. Akira Toriyama acknowledged it and has written a shitton of stuff based around it since then.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

A physical fight is not going to do much, Ms Marvel is physically superior to Yamcha,Tien, and Piccolo and even Goten and Trunks. The Z-Fighters the X-men are fighting have not shown they are on the same strength level as Ms Marvel or as durable as Ms Marvel. To me all they really have is energy projection and maybe speed. And like I said before doesn't not using their Ki make their attacks weaker?

http://manga.animea....502-page-3.html Bootenks punches a ki ball through the planet

http://manga.animea....187-page-5.html Goku flips Piccolo Jr being only as big as his finger (Meaning he probably weights multiple hundreds of tons)with a PL of only 334

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAAnA8t0XJg Goku drop kicks Freeza through two island with a PL of only 3,000,000

And the last two are done by characters far weaker than Cell saga Piccolo let alone Piccolo after 14 years of training.

I do not get what was the point of you posting these scans...Non of Z-Fighters the X-Men are fighting have shown the take a planet busting attack, non have shown to be planet busters and non have shown to be able to easily take Frieza and maybe his dad(maybe Piccolo or Trunks when he was older). Also non of the Z-Fighers that are fighting the X-Men are even on the same level as Vegeta. Binary on the other hand was bale to tank a attack from the Collector who contained the combined power of all the Omega mutants after M-day...

With the exception of Yamcha all of them are above Freeza who took this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrN85l9GjmI

and he was half dead on borrowed energy while cut in half.

They are all (except maybe Yamacha)above Freeza (I can't belive I get to use crap from "Hey Yo Son Goku and His Friends are Back.)Tarble comments that Freeza's henchmen are now as strong as he is, Goku hears this and says "Aw just as strong as Freeza huh? A perfect workout for the Kids." Trunks and Goten then beat up Ado and Cado in there base forms. So they are well into the planet durability.

And Saiyajin arc Vegeta with a power level of 18,000 took Goku's planet busting Kamehameha and then a Genki Dama and still got up for more.

Also Piccolo,Goten and Trunks are all above Jinzoningen saga Vegeta at this point before the training given in the setup Tien Shinhan and Kuririn may be around there now to after all that training.

 

Just stating the movie with Bardock wasn't canon and even so they still need oxygen to breath, especailly Yamcha and Tien since they're human...If Storm is really bloodlusted she can completely take it away the Oxygen.

The Bardock movie is canon Toriyam put it into the manga after he saw it because he loved it so much.

Im not saying they don't need it but they can go without it long enough to take her out.

[Guest sirmethos]

"Goku said Kaio taught them how to defend against telepathy in the set up,"

 

My bad, I missed that one. Thanks for pointing it out

 

 

"That and Goku has telepathic powers and Vegeta resisting Babidi's mind control says they do"

 

Not true. At least not to the extend you're implying.

 

The only "telepathic power" we have seen from Goku, is pure mind-reading. Which is the most basic "telepathic power". Telepaths with any power worth considering, like Jean Grey, Xavier, Emma Frost, Martian Manhunter, Judas Traveller, etc. all do that(mind-reading) as an automatic thing, and have to consciously shield themselves, in order to avoiding reading the minds of everyone around them.

 

Another thing that Goku has done that could be(erroneously) seen as a "telepathic power" is mentally communicating with others(like King Kai does), but that is not done telepathically(according to king kai and goku).

 

As for Vegeta resisting Babidi's mind control. No, that does not show that they have telepathic powers. The only thing that shows, is that they have strong will power. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

"as for Polaris whats her speed and defense like from what I found she gets blitzed."

 

Polaris has the same power as Magneto(only with less raw power). Magneto has been seen using his power to enhance his own reflexes and 'combat speed', to the point where he was able to react, and catch Northstar by the throat, while Northstar was in the process of blitz attacking him. Since this was not any kind of strenuous use of the power, logic says that Polaris is capable of the same thing.

 

 

"Edit: Also with the exception of Quicksilver how are any of them going to lay a finger on the Z-fighters?"

 

In the primary fight, both Hulk and Apocalypse have shown capable of tagging speedsters(like quicksilver) on more than one occasion. While Polaris' powers work at close to light speed(EM energy).

 

Sunfire will have a harder time with it, since his only method of effectively attacking the Z fighters, will be large area attacks. Unless, of course, one of the other 3 can distract one of the Z fighters long enough for Sunfire to get a shot in.

 

In the secondary fight, Northstar can move at close to light speed, and Magneto's powers work in the same way as Polaris'.

 

For the rest of them, it's the same as with Sunfire.

 

 

"how can Apocolypse kill Goku? His speed isn't impressive and while his strength is Goku's is impressive as well"

 

It's true that Goku's strength is impressive as well, but Apocalypse can increase his strength, with no upper limit. Apocalypse just has to wait for Goku to get into close-combat, at which point Apocalypse has been shown fast enough that he would be able to tag Goku.

 

 

"If the battle doesn't go there way Goku and Vegeta can fuse and use the Stardust Breaker and remove all of his evil energy like the did to Janemba who could warp reality on a universal scale."

 

Except for the fact that it wouldn't actually remove anything.

 

One of the (many) ways in which the DBZ universe is different from the real world, as well as Marvel and DC, is that "good" and "evil" are objective, quantifiable things.

 

'good' and 'evil' are actual forces, kinds of energy, that exists in living beings. And thus, it is possible to "remove" or destroy, evil energy from a person.

 

In that regard, if nothing else, Marvel and DC are quite a bit more realistic. "good" and "evil" are subjective things, not something caused by a quantifiable kind of "energy" inside of each person.

 

The Stardust Breaker would still work as a powerful energy attack, but nothing more than that.

 

As for Janemba being a "universal scale reality warper". The DBZ universe as we know it, consist of 4-16 galaxies. In comparison, the Marvel universe(just like the real world) has millions of billions of galaxies. The Shi'ar empire alone, is just as large as(if not larger) the entire DBZ universe. His power is still impressive, but not nearly as impressive as you're making it sound.

 

 

"apocalypse can move at supersonic speeds and with his size he could smack them right out of the sky it would be like a fly they can move much faster than us but we can still swat them out of the sky if they come around us. and any range attack is going to do nothing to him."

 

While this has nothing to do with the match, I feel a need to address this.

 

No, flies do not move "much faster than us".

 

Flies have an average speed of roughly 5 miles per hour, with bursts of up to 15 miles per hour when they are threatened.

 

In comparison, the average walking speed for an adult human, is about 4-5 miles per hour.

 

 

"Thats faaaaaaaaaar to slow Ozaru Vegeta moved much faster than Kaioken X3 Goku and was larger and Goku still managed to dodge and they were both into the triple digit Mach speeds"

 

I don't suppose you have anything to support your claim of "triple digit mach speeds" ? You know, aside from math(which doesn't work with dbz).

 

 

"Stardust Breaker/Soul Punisher does damage to the soul it's not the same as absorbing the Kamehameha absorbing it would directily effect Apocolypses evil energy since that's what it targets."

 

There is nothing to indicate that The Stardust Breaker does damage to the soul. Only that it "removes evil energy", which I've already addressed.

 

 

"1. I keep hearing people say Magneto can control the iron in people's blood. If that's true than that makes him very dangerous."

 

This is true, but IIRC, Magneto has been experiencing problems with his powers fluctuating since the whole Phoenix Five thing, which makes him considerably less dangerous.

 

 

"2. Rogue has Ms Marvel's powers. Ms Marvel can asborb any time of energy, so I believe since Rogue has her powers she can asborb the Z-Fighters energy. If Ms Marvel asborbs too much energy than she turns to the Binary state, Binary who is a PROVEN planet buster. Now I don't know if Rogue can turn into Binary since she has Ms Marvel's powers, but I am just speculating... Also Rogue can easily take out one of the Z-Fighters by asborbing their powers."

 

I'm not sure if it's because you're completely ignorant about Rogue(with ms. marvel's powers), or if you're just pulling things out your arse.

 

No, Rogue can not absorb the Z-Fighters' energy. The energy absorption that(after absorbing enough energy) turns Ms. Marvel into Binary, is not part of the powers that Rogue absorbed(since Ms.Marvel didn't actually have those powers when Rogue absorbed/stole them).

 

The whole Binary power-set, which gave her(ms. marvel) powers such as energy absorption, energy manipulation, etc. was something that she got after losing her original powers to Rogue.

 

 

 

"3. Storm has already shown she can control oxygen and can suck the oxygen out of people and almost killing them. A bloodlusted Storm would be very dangerous IMO."

 

Well, it's true that a blood-lusted Storm is highly dangerous. That has nothing to do with her ability to suck the air out of people's lungs though. The fact that most of the Z-fighters have shown capable of surviving with very little oxygen(and holding their breath for a fairly long time), makes that particular ability, a minor distraction at worst. It will only be dangerous, if she can keep it up long enough for the Z-fighters to fall unconscious from lack of oxygen. But she doesn't have the speed, or the durability, for that.

 

 

"A physical fight is not going to do much, Ms Marvel is physically superior to Yamcha,Tien, and Piccolo and even Goten and Trunks."

 

Well, that might be true. But as I've already pointed out, Ms. Marvel is not in this fight. And the powers that Rogue stole from her, are most definitely not enough to make her "physically superior" to any of the Z-fighters(unless they stop using Ki).

 

[The Void]

http://manga.animea....502-page-3.html Bootenks punches a ki ball through the planet

http://manga.animea....187-page-5.html Goku flips Piccolo Jr being only as big as his finger (Meaning he probably weights multiple hundreds of tons)with a PL of only 334

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAAnA8t0XJg Goku drop kicks Freeza through two island with a PL of only 3,000,000

And the last two are done by characters far weaker than Cell saga Piccolo let alone Piccolo after 14 years of training.

 

1. That was Buu...Not Goten or Trunks.

2. Ms Marvel can easily do that she is well above class 100 in Marvel(class 100 is the maximum). Super Saiyan Goku struggled with 40 tons.

 

NBot trying to downplay Goku.

 

 

And anyways again Goku is not fighting the X-men...

 

 

With the exception of Yamcha all of them are above Freeza who took this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrN85l9GjmI

and he was half dead on borrowed energy while cut in half.

They are all (except maybe Yamacha)above Freeza (I can't belive I get to use crap from "Hey Yo Son Goku and His Friends are Back.)Tarble comments that Freeza's henchmen are now as strong as he is, Goku hears this and says "Aw just as strong as Freeza huh? A perfect workout for the Kids." Trunks and Goten then beat up Ado and Cado in there base forms. So they are well into the planet durability.

And Saiyajin arc Vegeta with a power level of 18,000 took Goku's planet busting Kamehameha and then a Genki Dama and still got up for more.

Also Piccolo,Goten and Trunks are all above Jinzoningen saga Vegeta at this point before the training given in the setup Tien Shinhan and Kuririn may be around there now to after all that training.

 

Using ABC logic won't cut it. Just because they are stronger than Frieza doesn't mean they can bust a planet or even destroy a planet. Goku was stronger than Frieza yet he couldn't survive in space. Tien, Trunks, Goten and Piccolo have not shown they can bust a planet like Frieza or even tank a planet busting a attack. When Kid Buu was about to destroy Earth Goku and Vegeta had to IT away from Earth.

 

The Bardock movie is canon Toriyam put it into the manga after he saw it because he loved it so much.

Im not saying they don't need it but they can go without it long enough to take her out.

 

1.I know I forgot Bardocks fight with Frieza mention many times during DBZ.

2. I doubt Yamcha and Tien can they're just human...

[The Void]

sirmethos can you please just quote text...

 

This is true, but IIRC, Magneto has been experiencing problems with his powers fluctuating since the whole Phoenix Five thing, which makes him considerably less dangerous.

 

Hey I just heard it from what people were saying...

 

[quote name='sirmethos' timestamp='1359859380' post='409652'

 

I'm not sure if it's because you're completely ignorant about Rogue(with ms. marvel's powers), or if you're just pulling things out your arse.

 

No, Rogue can not absorb the Z-Fighters' energy. The energy absorption that(after absorbing enough energy) turns Ms. Marvel into Binary, is not part of the powers that Rogue absorbed(since Ms.Marvel didn't actually have those powers when Rogue absorbed/stole them).

 

The whole Binary power-set, which gave her(ms. marvel) powers such as energy absorption, energy manipulation, etc. was something that she got after losing her original powers to Rogue.

 

If you would actyally read my poss more clearly than you would know that I clearly said I was speculating! So no I am not pulling things out of my arse like you're saying.

 

1. If Rogue can not absorb energy than or become Binary than that's out of the picture. Again I was speculating, I never even said the X-Men would win. I just said Rogue like Magneto and Storm can be a problem.

 

2. I still believe Rogue can take one of the Z-Fighters powers and make them unconcious.

 

 

 

Well, it's true that a blood-lusted Storm is highly dangerous. That has nothing to do with her ability to suck the air out of people's lungs though. The fact that most of the Z-fighters have shown capable of surviving with very little oxygen(and holding their breath for a fairly long time), makes that particular ability, a minor distraction at worst. It will only be dangerous, if she can keep it up long enough for the Z-fighters to fall unconscious from lack of oxygen. But she doesn't have the speed, or the durability, for that.

 

They still need Oxygen nonetheless and Yamcha and Tien are mainly human. And when I posted that scan of Storm sucking the Oxygen away from a person she was actually controlling the level of air in the persons lungs.

 

 

Well, that might be true. But as I've already pointed out, Ms. Marvel is not in this fight. And the powers that Rogue stole from her, are most definitely not enough to make her "physically superior" to any of the Z-fighters(unless they stop using Ki).

 

 

 

1. I am fully ware of that and thanks for clearing that up.

2. I was just speculating. I didn't know Rogue didn't have the powers of Ms Marvel when Ms Marvel had her Binary powers...

[Guest force_echo]

You seriously thought Rogue could turn into Binary?

 

.... What?

[The Void]

You seriously thought Rogue could turn into Binary?

 

.... What?

 

I thought Rogue absorbed Ms Marvels powers when she could transform into Binary. Again I was mostly speculating. I never read that story when Rogue asborbed Ms Marvel's powers.

[Guest sirmethos]

"sirmethos can you please just quote text..."

 

No.

 

 

"If you would actyally read my poss more clearly than you would know that I clearly said I was speculating! So no I am not pulling things out of my arse like you're saying."

 

2. Rogue has Ms Marvel's powers. Ms Marvel can asborb any time of energy, so I believe since Rogue has her powers she can asborb the Z-Fighters energy. If Ms Marvel asborbs too much energy than she turns to the Binary state, Binary who is a PROVEN planet buster. Now I don't know if Rogue can turn into Binary since she has Ms Marvel's powers, but I am just speculating... Also Rogue can easily take out one of the Z-Fighters by asborbing their powers.

 

Your statement only indicated that the part about turning into Binary, was speculation. Not the part about being able to absorb energy.

 

But since you've already admitted that you didn't know that Rogue never had those powers, you've cleared up my confusion:

 

I'm not sure if it's because you're completely ignorant about Rogue(with ms. marvel's powers), or if you're just pulling things out your arse.

 

Clearly it was a case of the former, rather than the latter.

 

 

"They still need Oxygen nonetheless and Yamcha and Tien are mainly human. And when I posted that scan of Storm sucking the Oxygen away from a person she was actually controlling the level of air in the persons lungs."

 

Yes, and I've never said otherwise. In fact, I've said as clearly as possible, without saying it directly, that they(the Z-fighters) do need oxygen. And still, my points stands.

 

 

"I thought Rogue absorbed Ms Marvels powers when she could transform into Binary. Again I was mostly speculating. I never read that story when Rogue asborbed Ms Marvel's powers."

 

Even without reading the actual stories(the one where rogue steals her power, and the one where she gains the Binary powers), even the most basic research could have told you that.

 

Both Wikipedia, Marvel.Wikia, and Comicvine, makes mention of it.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Not true. At least not to the extend you're implying.

 

The only "telepathic power" we have seen from Goku, is pure mind-reading. Which is the most basic "telepathic power". Telepaths with any power worth considering, like Jean Grey, Xavier, Emma Frost, Martian Manhunter, Judas Traveller, etc. all do that(mind-reading) as an automatic thing, and have to consciously shield themselves, in order to avoiding reading the minds of everyone around them.

 

Another thing that Goku has done that could be(erroneously) seen as a "telepathic power" is mentally communicating with others(like King Kai does), but that is not done telepathically(according to king kai and goku).

 

As for Vegeta resisting Babidi's mind control. No, that does not show that they have telepathic powers. The only thing that shows, is that they have strong will power. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I suppose your right though it matters little in this fight.

 

Polaris has the same power as Magneto(only with less raw power). Magneto has been seen using his power to enhance his own reflexes and 'combat speed', to the point where he was able to react, and catch Northstar by the throat, while Northstar was in the process of blitz attacking him. Since this was not any kind of strenuous use of the power, logic says that Polaris is capable of the same thing.

 

In the primary fight, both Hulk and Apocalypse have shown capable of tagging speedsters(like quicksilver) on more than one occasion. While Polaris' powers work at close to light speed(EM energy).

 

Any better then Quicksilver? The best I can find for him is 139 km/s.

(With DBO out and a legit timeframe on saiyajin arc Piccolos ki blast they are 192,200 km/s on his Moon feat.)

 

In the secondary fight, Northstar can move at close to light speed, and Magneto's powers work in the same way as Polaris'.

 

For the rest of them, it's the same as with Sunfire.

Ki blast at 192,200 km/s in Saiyajin saga now thanks to a solid time frame on his feat (It actually goes with Roshi's moon feat and Goku out running the Taiyo Ken)

 

It's true that Goku's strength is impressive as well, but Apocalypse can increase his strength, with no upper limit. Apocalypse just has to wait for Goku to get into close-combat, at which point Apocalypse has been shown fast enough that he would be able to tag Goku.

 

Name what he has done that lets him tag Goku.

 

Except for the fact that it wouldn't actually remove anything.

 

One of the (many) ways in which the DBZ universe is different from the real world, as well as Marvel and DC, is that "good" and "evil" are objective, quantifiable things.

 

'good' and 'evil' are actual forces, kinds of energy, that exists in living beings. And thus, it is possible to "remove" or destroy, evil energy from a person.

 

In that regard, if nothing else, Marvel and DC are quite a bit more realistic. "good" and "evil" are subjective things, not something caused by a quantifiable kind of "energy" inside of each person.

 

The Stardust Breaker would still work as a powerful energy attack, but nothing more than that.

 

Except this battle isn't taking place in the Marvel or DC universe it is taking place in the DBZ universe if that is one of the laws of that universe then they follow it and are considered evil.

 

As for Janemba being a "universal scale reality warper". The DBZ universe as we know it, consist of 4-16 galaxies. In comparison, the Marvel universe(just like the real world) has millions of billions of galaxies. The Shi'ar empire alone, is just as large as(if not larger) the entire DBZ universe. His power is still impressive, but not nearly as impressive as you're making it sound.

 

Issue we don't know

A.) how far apart the galaxies are

B.) How large the otherworld is since it was also effected by Janemba

I would also like to point out that the Galaxies are also referred to as Quadrants in the Daizenshuu so there could be more galaxies in there.

 

I don't suppose you have anything to support your claim of "triple digit mach speeds" ? You know, aside from math(which doesn't work with dbz).

 

Piccolo's moon destruction and Roshi's MAX Kamehameha being far and hilariously above triple digit mach.

 

There is nothing to indicate that The Stardust Breaker does damage to the soul. Only that it "removes evil energy", which I've already addressed.

 

Ok I was about to say somthing but it's speculation at best so agreed.

[The Void]

"sirmethos can you please just quote text..."

 

No.

 

It would be much better for debating. But whatever...

 

 

 

Your statement only indicated that the part about turning into Binary, was speculation. Not the part about being able to absorb energy.

 

But since you've already admitted that you didn't know that Rogue never had those powers, you've cleared up my confusion:

 

You're point? I already admitted why still go on? And when I said "I believe" I was still in a way speculating because doesn't when Rogue usually gains someone's powers she can fully use all of it?

 

 

 

 

Clearly it was a case of the former, rather than the latter.

But I wasn't pulling things out my arse...

 

 

 

Yes, and I've never said otherwise. In fact, I've said as clearly as possible, without saying it directly, that they(the Z-fighters) do need oxygen. And still, my points stands.

 

So does mines since Storm can completely take away their oxygen. Not saying the X-men win yet...I was just trying ti state that was one factor they could use to win.

 

 

 

 

Even without reading the actual stories(the one where rogue steals her power, and the one where she gains the Binary powers), even the most basic research could have told you that.

 

Both Wikipedia, Marvel.Wikia, and Comicvine, makes mention of it.

 

Okay wise guy...But I would actually prefer to read the comic, because IMO it would give me a more in depth look at what happened.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

-snip-

I said it was Bootenks who had Gotenk's power and was a little above Saikyo no Gohan after 14 years Gotenks is on his level or higher.

Never said she couldn't, this is fodder Goku from the 23rd Budokai Generic Freeza Grunt>>>Him and he wasn't lifting jack he was punching. To give an idea I can barley punch with 20lbs in my hand without falling over however I can bench my weight (170) if the difference was the same for Goku (Though he is trained and punching with 40 tons easily so this number is likely higher.) he could bench 340 tons its still from a gag scene so no one cares.

 

ABC logic does work in this case cause it all comes down to Ki, Piccolo has more Ki in is pinky in the Cell Saga than Freeza does he can push more energy into an attack more energy means bigger fireworks. Goku couldn't breath in space because of his biological need for oxygen not because of his Ki. They have shown they can cause they have more ki Goten and Trunks beat 2 opponents in base that were equal to Freeza who had a moot understanding of ki anyway just a ton of it. Also tell the whole story Chibi Boo was about to murk the earth with a casual baseball sized blast and Vegeta deflected it he made another one the next instant that could destroy the earth 10x over and Goku and Vegeta couldn't power up fast enough to deflect an attack like that was already ready to fire and that Boo is far stronger than either of them as SSJ1s.

[The Void]

I said it was Bootenks who had Gotenk's power and was a little above Saikyo no Gohan after 14 years Gotenks is on his level or higher.

Never said she couldn't, this is fodder Goku from the 23rd Budokai Generic Freeza Grunt>>>Him and he wasn't lifting jack he was punching. To give an idea I can barley punch with 20lbs in my hand without falling over however I can bench my weight (170) if the difference was the same for Goku (Though he is trained and punching with 40 tons easily so this number is likely higher.) he could bench 340 tons its still from a gag scene so no one cares.

 

ABC logic does work in this case cause it all comes down to Ki, Piccolo has more Ki in is pinky in the Cell Saga than Freeza does he can push more energy into an attack more energy means bigger fireworks. Goku couldn't breath in space because of his biological need for oxygen not because of his Ki. They have shown they can cause they have more ki Goten and Trunks beat 2 opponents in base that were equal to Freeza who had a moot understanding of ki anyway just a ton of it. Also tell the whole story Chibi Boo was about to murk the earth with a casual baseball sized blast and Vegeta deflected it he made another one the next instant that could destroy the earth 10x over and Goku and Vegeta couldn't power up fast enough to deflect an attack like that was already ready to fire and that Boo is far stronger than either of them as SSJ1s.

 

Rogue is a non factor..You you win the debate on DBZ characters being more powerful than Rogue with Ms Marvels powers since Rogue can't absorb their enegy like Ms Marvel would and she isn't as physically strong as Ms Marvel.

[Guest stargazer69]

Tien, Yamcha, die instantly. They are useless. at this point in time they are still weaker than Radiz, Piccolo isnt that special either but Goten and Kid trunks could make Gotenks and achive SSJ3, that would be their only hope really. As for the 1st fight I think The horsemen can be taken out by Future Trunks and Gohan alone. The hulk would be the only stinker though. he is the wild card of the horsemen I think. As for The big guy I think he could overpower Goku and vegeta. SSJ3 is very hard to maintain and takes a massive toll on the body. if they were SSJ 4 they would have a chance. but I am going with Apocolypse

[xLEGACYx]

1. Iceman is part of the atmosphere basically. They will not be able to completely destroy him as long as any water is around.

 

2. Colossus is Juggernaut. The Z-Fighters have nothing to stop him. I could picture characters like Tien or Yamcha blasting him and Colossus walking through it and grabbing them by the throat. I believe it would be similar to Cell vs Tien except Colossus wouldnt be knocked back at all. Now granted Colossus doesnt have the speed to catch them in an open fight though.

 

3. With Cyclops new, seemingly more powerful optic blasts, he could cause some damage. He cant physically fight to keep up with the Z-Fighters but he is very accurate with his blasts and bouncing them off surfaces to hit opponents. He may even be able to stalemate ki blasts with it.

 

4. The X-Men are a cohesive unit that works really well together. While the Z-Fighters are all friends, they mostly fight one on one battles. The only team fighters are Goten and young trunks.

 

5. Magneto's shield is powerful enough to stop most ki blasts. He could simply protect himself inside while striking out with his other attacks.

 

6. Apocalypse has the powers and raw strength alone to handle most of the first team. When you add in the other amped up horsemen, they can overwhelm the first team of Z-Fighters.

 

Question. When one team finishes there battle, can they help the other?

[Guest sirmethos]

"It would be much better for debating. But whatever..."

 

No, it really wouldn't.

 

I do it this way, instead of using quotes, for 2 reasons.

 

1. This way I can respond to each individual point, and everyone knows exactly what it is I'm addressing.

2. If I tried doing it with quotes, I would have to do several posts in a row, because it would require more quotes than is possible to put in a single post.

 

 

"But I wasn't pulling things out my arse..."

 

Which is exactly what I was saying.

 

It was the former(being ignorant about Rogue/Ms. Marvel's powers), rather than the latter(pulling things out your arse).

 

Ignorance is excusable. No one is required to know everything.

 

 

"So does mines since Storm can completely take away their oxygen. Not saying the X-men win yet...I was just trying ti state that was one factor they could use to win."

 

Yes, we already covered this. Storm can take away their oxygen. But unless she can actually keep it up(i.e. survive) long enough for the Z-fighters to fall unconscious(or die) from oxygen deprivation, it's an annoyance at best. Considering the fact that all of the Z-fighters can hold their breaths, and survive with minimal amounts of oxygen, for an extended period of time.

 

 

"Okay wise guy...But I would actually prefer to read the comic, because IMO it would give me a more in depth look at what happened."

 

Completely agreed. I was simply pointing out, that not having read the comics, is not an excuse for being completely ignorant about Ms. Marvel gaining the Binary powers after Rogue stole her original powers, since that is mentioned on several websites that are commonly used for research.

 

Even when I have read the comics, I still make a point of doing research on the characters involved, i.e. reading through their marvel/dc.wikia sites, and their comicvine pages. That way, if I've read the comics, then the information is fresh in my memory, and if I have not read the comics, then I at least have a basic knowledge of the characters, and the major storylines they've been involved in..

[Guest stargazer69]

Team 2 is deader than a racist walrus in the detroit ghetto after dark

[xLEGACYx]

Team 2 is deader than a racist walrus in the detroit ghetto after dark

wrong you are sir. Have any proof to support your claim?

[C.T.]

Team 2 is deader than a racist walrus in the detroit ghetto after dark

 

WTF does this even mean?

[The Void]

No, it really wouldn't.

 

I do it this way, instead of using quotes, for 2 reasons.

 

1. This way I can respond to each individual point, and everyone knows exactly what it is I'm addressing.

2. If I tried doing it with quotes, I would have to do several posts in a row, because it would require more quotes than is possible to put in a single post.

 

Whatever suits you...

 

 

 

Which is exactly what I was saying.

 

It was the former(being ignorant about Rogue/Ms. Marvel's powers), rather than the latter(pulling things out your arse).

 

 

Ignorance is excusable. No one is required to know everything.

 

So than why are we still going on?

 

 

Yes, we already covered this. Storm can take away their oxygen. But unless she can actually keep it up(i.e. survive) long enough for the Z-fighters to fall unconscious(or die) from oxygen deprivation, it's an annoyance at best. Considering the fact that all of the Z-fighters can hold their breaths, and survive with minimal amounts of oxygen, for an extended period of time.

 

Like I said before they would be distrated, the X-men actually have numbers on their side unlike the Z-Fighters. Yamcha and Tien are mostly human and so I doubt they would really survive...

 

 

"Okay wise guy...But I would actually prefer to read the comic, because IMO it would give me a more in depth look at what happened."

 

Completely agreed. I was simply pointing out, that not having read the comics, is not an excuse for being completely ignorant about Ms. Marvel gaining the Binary powers after Rogue stole her original powers, since that is mentioned on several websites that are commonly used for research.

 

Even when I have read the comics, I still make a point of doing research on the characters involved, i.e. reading through their marvel/dc.wikia sites, and their comicvine pages. That way, if I've read the comics, then the information is fresh in my memory, and if I have not read the comics, then I at least have a basic knowledge of the characters, and the major storylines they've been involved in..

 

1. Comicvine can be edited by anyone...I'm a member of that site and almost anyone can edit anything.

2. Marvel/DC wikia can be edited by anyone too.

3. I just prefer reading the comic either online or in a physical copy. That suits and I prefer that way.

[The Void]

Team 2 is deader than a racist walrus in the detroit ghetto after dark

 

O_o

[Guest stargazer69]

WTF does this even mean?

 

It means they are extremley dead. I got it from Drawn Together.

 

 

Team 2 has the weakest Z fighters, the strongest being two kids who never even passed base SSJ1. Trunks and Goten have never beaten anyone. Piccalo has not trained in a long time. he is out of shape, Colossus is stronger that alot of the Z fighters and they have alot more versitillity than the Z fighters