Match 12141 The Star Wars Fanatics vs. Trekkies

[Guest Ruinus]

The idea of Star Trek being "hard sci-fi" or being harder sci-fi than Star Wars is amusing. I guess Star Trek is harder because it calls its space ghosts noncorporeal energy beings instead of ghosts?

[Guest Darxeth]

I enjoyed the new Star Trek movie more than any other ST or SW movies; however, I enjoy the SW universe more.

 

My question is, who's more Iconic: Vader or Kirk?

And would you rather posseses the power of the force and a lightsaber or the USS Enterprise and the piloting capabilities of Captain Kirk?

 

Also, great set-up. Although I think the SW fanboys win; It's more popular.

[Guest Ruinus]

That's a pretty unevel question, because it's making you choose between a personal ability and the ability to see the galaxy. It'd be better if you asked "Would you rather want the Millenium Falcon or the Enterprise?" and "Would you rather want to be a Jedi or a Starfleet officer?"

[Guest Darxeth]

I tried to include the positives of both, but without the negatives.

 

For instance, if you're a Jedi, you're not allowed to have a wife.

At least, I think that's true, I made be wrong though.

[DamagingRob]

*Runs and burns everything of Star Wars he owns*

[Guest LoneWolf]

I tried to include the positives of both, but without the negatives.

 

For instance, if you're a Jedi, you're not allowed to have a wife.

At least, I think that's true, I made be wrong though.

Really? So.. how did Darth pop out old Luke? I guess he is a bastard then eh?

[Guest Darxeth]

Really? So.. how did Darth pop out old Luke? I guess he is a bastard then eh?

 

He wasn't exactly following the Jedi code..

 

But as I've said before, I could be wrong.

[DamagingRob]

Really? So.. how did Darth pop out old Luke? I guess he is a bastard then eh?

I don't recall them marrying in the prequel trilogy.

[Guest force_echo]

The idea of Star Trek being "hard sci-fi" or being harder sci-fi than Star Wars is amusing. I guess Star Trek is harder because it calls its space ghosts noncorporeal energy beings instead of ghosts?

FTL travel is more theoretically possible, there is no Force- which is basically magic, there are no plasma swords that can somehow cut through anything, etc. I mean as a whole it might not be THAT much harder, but some individual episodes are definitely harder.

[C.T.]

 

For instance, if you're a Jedi, you're not allowed to have a wife.

 

 

Jolee Bindo did. Revan did. Luke Skywalker did. Etc.

[Guest Darxeth]

Jolee Bindo did. Revan did. Luke Skywalker did. Etc.

 

Wasn't Revan evil?

 

And the order was different when Luke was alive.

 

I don't know about Jolee.

[C.T.]

Not at the time he was married.

 

True.

 

Eh, Bindo did kind of bend the rules.

[Guest Darxeth]

Oh, weren't the rules different in Rvan's time also?

 

And I see.

[C.T.]

Not that different.

[Guest Ruinus]

FTL travel is more theoretically possible,

 

One is no more theoretically possible than the other.

 

there is no Force- which is basically magic,

 

The Q. Psionics, the Douwd, the wormhole aliens, Apollo, ghosts, (seriously, ghosts). And literal magic.

 

there are no plasma swords that can somehow cut through anything, etc

 

As opposed to the hand guns that make people disappear with no ill effects to the surrounding environment?

 

All Star Trek does is bullshit it's magic and ghosts by trying to give them science-y names.

[Guest force_echo]

A warp drive is a more scientifically accepted method of FTL travel than travelling through a higher dimension- which is kind of ridiculous.

[Guest Ruinus]

The warp drive is still silly and only "sounds" like hard sci-fi because parts of it make scientific sense.

 

I'll also counter that while Star Trek attempts to label it's magic as science or come off as more reasonable than Star Wars (when in fact they are both unreasonable and silly), Star Trek fails to be hard sci-fi when it has sound weapons in space.

[Guest force_echo]

Did I ever say it was hard sci-fi? In fact, IIRC, I mentioned quite a few universes that were significantly harder. I'm just saying it's harder than Star Wars.

 

Obviously there are gonna be some problems to the development and plausibility, otherwise we would have it right now. But it's more grounded in real scientific theory than Star War's hyperdrive.

[Guest Ruinus]

If you want to claim the warp drive puts its ahead of SW on the sci-fi hardness scale, then I'll counter by pointing out any points ST earns on that scale are lost by sound weapons in space.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

The idea of Star Trek being "hard sci-fi" or being harder sci-fi than Star Wars is amusing. I guess Star Trek is harder because it calls its space ghosts noncorporeal energy beings instead of ghosts?

 

I'm speaking of the movie, and there are no "space ghosts" to speak of.

[Guest force_echo]

If you want to claim the warp drive puts its ahead of SW on the sci-fi hardness scale, then I'll counter by pointing out any points ST earns on that scale are lost by sound weapons in space.

Touche'.

[DamagingRob]

Heh. I love how many posts this is getting after the results are in.

 

DamagEdit: And hooray! My avi finally switched.

[Guest Ruinus]

I'm speaking of the movie, and there are no "space ghosts" to speak of.

 

And I was responding to the claim that Star Trek is harder than Star Wars, even then your statement that the new Star Trek is "pure, hard science fiction" is laughably wrong. Hard sci-fi doesn't have FTL.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

"Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as futuresettings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".

 

Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possible worlds or futures. It is similar to, but differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation)."

 

Mind sharing exactly how the new Star Trek movie doesn't fit this description? Saying that FTL travel doesn't fall under this banner is your opinion, and a flawed one at that, considering the concept of FTL travel is, more or less, theoretically possible.

 

And you've yet to give a reason as to why it isn't harder than Star Wars.

[Guest Ruinus]

Mind sharing exactly how the new Star Trek movie doesn't fit this description?

 

Hard science-fiction.

 

Hard sci-fi actually attempts to conform to realistic science, Star Trek does not.

 

Saying that FTL travel doesn't fall under this banner is your opinion, and a flawed one at that, considering the concept of FTL travel is, more or less, theoretically possible.

 

Show proof of that FTL is theoretically possible. I know about the real life Alcubierre Drive, but that's only "theoretically possible" if you hand wave away the energy requirements being more than the energy of the universe.

 

FTL travel, if treated "realistically" would also result in time travel, and while Star Trek has time travel in it, it wouldn't be a special occasion type of deal, all FTL travel (again, if treated "realistically) results in time travel.

 

]And you've yet to give a reason as to why it isn't harder than Star Wars.

 

Star Trek has sound weapons in space.