12:17 - Captain Marvel / Shazam vs. Doctor Doom

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 17

Captain Marvel / Shazam

Slot: The Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 3
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Captain Marvel / Shazam at Wikipedia
Official Site: D.C Comics

Doctor Doom

Slot: The Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 2
Season Losses: 2
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Doctor Doom at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Detroit Ruins

[Twogunkid]

In the ruins of Detroit, Billy Batson confronts Dr. Victor Von Doom. Sorcerer tech wielding geniuses are nothing new for Billy. He faces Mr. Mind all the time.

Further, Billy is not vulnerable to magic the way say Superman or Power Girl are and he boasts even greater strength and speed than PG by her own admission. Throw in Billy's varied arsenal and he can defeat Doom.

 

[Culwych1]

Shazam has had his magic powers stolen by Constantine before. 

Dr Doom has used spells to steal magic powers before.

Dr Doom has prep and his Doombots which means that Shazam isn't going to be able to speedblitz him, and should give Doom more than enough time to depower him 

[Twogunkid]

11 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Shazam has had his magic powers stolen by Constantine before. 

Dr Doom has used spells to steal magic powers before.

Dr Doom has prep and his Doombots which means that Shazam isn't going to be able to speedblitz him, and should give Doom more than enough time to depower him 

Constantine couldn't handle the stolen powers, had done extensive research on what to do, and had Billy's consent for the stealing. Doom isn't getting that. Billy is no Shadowcat with the Soulsword.

Doombots are not a threat to the likes of Daredevil, they are going to be a minimal slowdown to Billy.

Further, as we are in a ruined environment, Billy is absolutely free to cut loose and unload way more strength than he normally would.

[Culwych1]

7 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Constantine couldn't handle the stolen powers, had done extensive research on what to do, and had Billy's consent for the stealing. Doom isn't getting that. Billy is no Shadowcat with the Soulsword.

Doombots are not a threat to the likes of Daredevil, they are going to be a minimal slowdown to Billy.

Further, as we are in a ruined environment, Billy is absolutely free to cut loose and unload way more strength than he normally would.

But it is possible, and Doom is one of the greatest sorcerers in the universe. Constantine still managed to contain it for a while - and it would only take Doom seconds to tear Billy apart. 

On top of the Doombots  we have Dooms ability to summon hordes of  demons, his shields that have stood up to Shazam level hits and more. 

Stealing powers is Dooms go to move - and there is nothing to suggest he could handle them unlike Constantine.

[Twogunkid]

Just now, Culwych1 said:

But it is possible, and Doom is one of the greatest sorcerers in the universe. Constantine still managed to contain it for a while - and it would only take Doom seconds to tear Billy apart. 

On top of the Doombots  we have Dooms ability to summon hordes of  demons, his shields that have stood up to Shazam level hits and more. 

Stealing powers is Dooms go to move - and there is nothing to suggest he could handle them unlike Constantine.

Hordes of Demons from Hell are not frightening to Billy Batson. He led the JLA to Necrons lair through tons of demons and had the JLA possessed, including Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and the Martian Manhunter, and bloodlusted try to kill him. He didn't fight back but still tanked what they were throwing at him. Doom got himself trapped in Hell as a result of his schemes. He is outfoxed by the Demons of Limbo in the Excalibur Classic, "The Prometheum Exchange" Doom's track record with demons is not great.
And Billy is not going to be giving Doom Constantine's chance. Billy trusted Constantine because he is one of the good guys. Dr. Doom is not. Billy has also drained magical abilities from people.

Further, Billy reverse the spell Constantine used and restores himself as Billy Batson. Billy can certainly get his powers back even if he somehow fell for the same trick again.

[Culwych1]

11 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Hordes of Demons from Hell are not frightening to Billy Batson. He led the JLA to Necrons lair through tons of demons and had the JLA possessed, including Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and the Martian Manhunter, and bloodlusted try to kill him. He didn't fight back but still tanked what they were throwing at him. Doom got himself trapped in Hell as a result of his schemes. He is outfoxed by the Demons of Limbo in the Excalibur Classic, "The Prometheum Exchange" Doom's track record with demons is not great.
And Billy is not going to be giving Doom Constantine's chance. Billy trusted Constantine because he is one of the good guys. Dr. Doom is not. Billy has also drained magical abilities from people.

Further, Billy reverse the spell Constantine used and restores himself as Billy Batson. Billy can certainly get his powers back even if he somehow fell for the same trick again.

All the Doombots and Demons have to do is slow Shazam down, enough for Doom to cast a spell that either stops him or steals his power. Even if it is for a second, and you'll end up with a kid in the middle of demons and Doombots who can kill him with a single blow.

[Culwych1]

And don't forget... Doombots have been shown to cast spells as well!

[Twogunkid]

Just now, Culwych1 said:

And don't forget... Doombots have been shown to cast spells as well!

What? When was this?

[Culwych1]

5 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

What? When was this?

Doombot trapping Strange in the crimson bands of Cytorrak and using eye of Agamotto.

 

[Twogunkid]

And this is not Doom in direct control of a Doombot? This feels beyond what a nameless Doombot performs normally.

[Culwych1]

10 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

What? When was this?

Also, a Doombot avoiding Thors hammer. We often compare Thor to Shazam on this site

 

[Twogunkid]

Thor's hammer has been bested by magnetism frequently. Plus duplicating radioactive man's powers is very in line with an established weakness without much bearing on the overall fight.

[Culwych1]

3 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

And this is not Doom in direct control of a Doombot? This feels beyond what a nameless Doombot performs normally.

Doombots have been autonomous for a while now.

Not quite a magical power  but here is one dealing with a magical entity by dealing with them "at a molecular level" (gotta love comic book mumbo jumbo).

 

[Culwych1]

And just coz I love this scan... Doom and his Doombots attacking multiple Celestials

 

[Twogunkid]

Sentient Doombots or not, Billy is going down to them considering how often the Human Torch melts through hordes of them or the Thing wipes em out with a good clobbering. 

Doom can throw a lot of resources at Billy, but Billy has the stamina of Atlas. He is not going down in a protracted fight tanking the JLA in hell is more than proof of that. Billy defeats powerful sorcerers, mad geniuses, and people with powers like his own and more experience with them.

Earth's mightiest mortal calling down the powerful lightning of Zeus to clear the field of Doombots and bring Doom down himself.

[Culwych1]

Just now, Twogunkid said:

 Billy defeats powerful sorcerers, mad geniuses, and people with powers like his own and more experience with them.

Exact same thing can be said about Doom. He has taken on the most powerful magic, cosmic, technological, and powerful beings in the universe. He always has a backup plan and can tank everything that Shazam can throw at him long enough to defeat him.

[Twogunkid]

4 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Exact same thing can be said about Doom. He has taken on the most powerful magic, cosmic, technological, and powerful beings in the universe. He always has a backup plan and can tank everything that Shazam can throw at him long enough to defeat him.

and Doom always has it backfire in someway, see the Silver Surfer, Belasco, the Beyonder, Sym to name a few. Doom always finds a way to have whatever victory he might have undone usually by his own hand or foolishness.

[Culwych1]

5 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

and Doom always has it backfire in someway, see the Silver Surfer, Belasco, the Beyonder, Sym to name a few. Doom always finds a way to have whatever victory he might have undone usually by his own hand or foolishness.

He's become a god. That's a success. 

He's taken out some of the strongest beings in the universe, that's a success. 

The worst enemy he can ever face, is himself - and he knows this. However all other enemies do eventually fall before him.

[Twogunkid]

2 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

He's become a god. That's a success. 

He's taken out some of the strongest beings in the universe, that's a success. 

The worst enemy he can ever face, is himself - and he knows this. However all other enemies do eventually fall before him.

and Billy knows the power of humility, throw in wisdom of Solomon letting him just know things like which Doom is real, and he has a real shot at taking Doom out fast.

[Culwych1]

5 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

and Billy knows the power of humility, throw in wisdom of Solomon letting him just know things like which Doom is real, and he has a real shot at taking Doom out fast.

I've always wondered about the wisdom of Solomon, because there are some things he knows and others he doesn't. He may know which is real - although noting that the Doombots have fooled the smartest characters in Marvel - but there'd still be Dooms forcefields and Doombots to contend with.

[Twogunkid]

3 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

I've always wondered about the wisdom of Solomon, because there are some things he knows and others he doesn't. He may know which is real - although noting that the Doombots have fooled the smartest characters in Marvel - but there'd still be Dooms forcefields and Doombots to contend with.

Wisdom of Solomon is an odd power to be sure. Billy's other powers are relatively straightforward, but the Wisdom of Solomon varies in terms of what it does.

 

Generally though it lets him A. Knows things about opponents, usually mystical in nature, B. See through illusions and disguises, C. Show incredible resiliance against mind control and mental attacks (although the Courage of Achilles could also be argued to be the source of that)

[DSkillz]

Heh, Doom facing off against another DC magical flying brick.

Well, Billy's not gonna be as ruthless as Teth, but he should still be able to tag Doom before he could react. Yeah, Doom has his Doombots, but I seriously doubt any of them are going to be wielding extra tools like the Dr. Strange's Eye of Agamotto.  

[Culwych1]

13 minutes ago, DSkillz said:

Heh, Doom facing off against another DC magical flying brick.

Well, Billy's not gonna be as ruthless as Teth, but he should still be able to tag Doom before he could react. Yeah, Doom has his Doombots, but I seriously doubt any of them are going to be wielding extra tools like the Dr. Strange's Eye of Agamotto.  

Dooms armour has the power of the crimson bands of Cytorrak if that helps against the speed blitz argument? Given he has prep, he should have them already deployed. 

https://m.imgur.com/9SymZDl

 

[DSkillz]

20 minutes ago, Culwych1 said:

Dooms armour has the power of the crimson bands of Cytorrak if that helps against the speed blitz argument? Given he has prep, he should have them already deployed. 

https://m.imgur.com/9SymZDl

 

Eh, I'm not think the Bands are something Doom regularly pulls out in battle, though. Otherwise, the Fantastic Four would screwed every time.