12:11 - Apocalypse vs. Captain Marvel / Shazam

[UMPIRE]

SEASON 12, ROUND 11

Apocalypse

Slot: The Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Apocalypse at this Wiki
Official Site: Marvel Comics

Captain Marvel / Shazam

Slot: The Team's Big Gun
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 1
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Captain Marvel / Shazam at this Wiki
Official Site: D.C Comics

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Murderworld

[Peypeypeypey]

Apocalypse appears to have very good showings against Thor, who as we established is just about Superman's equal, who is Shazam's equal. That implies Apocalypse is stronger

[Pizzaguy2995]

As I recall while Apocalypse can slug it out with guys like Thor and Magneto, he also has had some less flattering feats that make me question his tier ranking. Shazam as far as I remember is more consistent with his strength level, but I’ll need to research his specific feats before I make a final decision.

It’ll be a good fight regardless though.

[Twogunkid]

Apocalypse has his share of jobbing moments that Billy really doesn't. He has taken damage from X-Men and has been stated by his author to be around Magneto level I take that with a grain of salt and assume that is in terms of quality of writing, not the quality of power.

 

X-Factor 50, he is fooled by Loki's most basic disguises and then fails to contain Loki or do any harm to him.

Cyclops however easily bursts through his restraints

Then does get one shot by Cyclops in the same issue.

Cyclops is no slouch in power, but is several categories down just based on optic blasts. (note there is no Phoenix Force involved here. Just regular ole Scott)

Unfortunately for Apocalypse, the best speed feat I could find for him was Quicksilver, the best speed feats I have for Billy involve the likes of Superman, Power Girl saying Billy is faster than her, keeping pace with the Wally West, and other DC heavy weights. Billy has Apocalypse outclassed in speed, durability, and strength.

 

Going into esorteric powers, Billy's use of magic leaves him with size changing as well as telepathy and matter manipulation likewise both are immortal and can teleport. So Billy has the edge in head to head powers and Apocalypse doesn't even have the edge in experience as the Wisdom of Solomon is stated to give Billy the experience of over 5,000 years.

 

 

[comic_book_fan]

this is  CBUB  i remember us having a distinctively different debate style then comicvine i was hoping to use our old method of debate because i feel like it's more accurate it also massively helps me out  but if we have to hash things out  by feats are everything comicvine method i can do that too i await your response  on how you want to do this  if i get no response by tomorrow i will make my case  using both styles 

[Twogunkid]

I'm down to go old school.

[C.T.]

3 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

Going into esorteric powers, Billy's use of magic leaves him with size changing as well as telepathy and matter manipulation likewise both are immortal and can teleport. So Billy has the edge in head to head powers

Just gonna point out that Apocalypse has every single one of those powers too, on top of many others including just giving himself new powers at will so…no Billy’s not gonna beat him in the versatility game 

[Twogunkid]

8 minutes ago, C.T. said:

Just gonna point out that Apocalypse has every single one of those powers too, on top of many others including just giving himself new powers at will so…no Billy’s not gonna beat him in the versatility game 

I was going through Apocalypse's laundry list and that Billy had all of these powers as well. Hell, Billy can even give powers to other people like Apocalypse can.

[comic_book_fan]

19 hours ago, Twogunkid said:

I was going through Apocalypse's laundry list and that Billy had all of these powers as well. Hell, Billy can even give powers to other people like Apocalypse can.

 

if billy uses  telepathy against Apocalypse he will get a violent feedback    also  and can billy control his molecules  on the subatomic level there is no real way for billy to win this every single power he has Apocalypse  has a counter for

telepathy Apocalypse is immune  

transmutation  Apocalypse  molecule manipulation counters that 

lightning thor's lightning only managed to stagger him  i doubt billy's will do anymore than that if it hits him  Apocalypse also has force fields  and teleportation 

brute force Apocalypse has taken on the hulk and held his own against 2 thor's at once  not to mention  try punching something that can change from it's physical state at will  billy punches him he can change to a liquid state 

forget wizdom Apocalypse is way smarter than billy  not to mention if this place runs off tec Apocalypse  could turn the whole battle field against him 

they both have the power of gods  but one has the brain of a 12 year old while the other could figure  out how to use tecnology hundreds of thousands of years more advanced  than he should 

 

[Twogunkid]

4 minutes ago, comic_book_fan said:

 

if billy uses  telepathy against Apocalypse he will get a violent feedback    also  and can billy control his molecules  on the subatomic level there is no real way for billy to win this every single power he has Apocalypse  has a counter for

telepathy Apocalypse is immune  

transmutation  Apocalypse  molecule manipulation counters that 

lightning thor's lightning only managed to stagger him  i doubt billy's will do anymore than that if it hits him  Apocalypse also has force fields  and teleportation 

brute force Apocalypse has taken on the hulk and held his own against 2 thor's at once  not to mention  try punching something that can change from it's physical state at will  billy punches him he can change to a liquid state 

forget wizdom Apocalypse is way smarter than billy  not to mention if this place runs off tec Apocalypse  could turn the whole battle field against him 

they both have the power of gods  but one has the brain of a 12 year old while the other could figure  out how to use tecnology hundreds of thousands of years more advanced  than he should 

 

Billy has apocalypse on a hard speed blitz. This guys goes up against Superman, Black Adam, Darkseid, Superboy Prime and tons of other way heavier hitters than Thor. Supes > Thor and Captain Marvel/Shazam=Supes.

Billy knows things from the Wisdom of Solomon. It is more than just good judgement and battlefield experience it also lets him have an inate understanding of many things including magic and generally how his opponents' abilities work.

Billy's magic extends to pure conjuration. He can something things from nothing. He has shorted out technology with magic and defeated sorcerers far more experienced than he is.

Apocalypse's biggest strength is the versatility of his powers, but Billy can match enough of that versatility and crush him in raw power.

and for the record Billy is 13.

 

[comic_book_fan]

3 minutes ago, Twogunkid said:

Billy has apocalypse on a hard speed blitz. This guys goes up against Superman, Black Adam, Darkseid, Superboy Prime and tons of other way heavier hitters than Thor. Supes > Thor and Captain Marvel/Shazam=Supes.

superman is more powerful than thor but marvel is only able to hang because his strength is superman's weakness  also  superman isn't more powerful than 2 thor's  

Billy knows things from the Wisdom of Solomon. It is more than just good judgement and battlefield experience it also lets him have an inate understanding of many things including magic and generally how his opponents' abilities work.

Apocalypse doesn't need innate wisdom he has people for that 

Billy's magic extends to pure conjuration. He can something things from nothing. He has shorted out technology with magic and defeated sorcerers far more experienced than he is.

Apocalypse's biggest strength is the versatility of his powers, but Billy can match enough of that versatility and crush him in raw power.

Apocalypse can definately hang in raw strength  jane threw a moon at odin  and Apocalypse completely restrained her with one arm and he nearly killed thor in 3 hits  

and for the record Billy is 13.

but his brain is 12

 

 

[Twogunkid]

2 hours ago, comic_book_fan said:

 

Billy is physically superman's equal. In terms of raw physical strength, speed, and endurance they are shown as peers. Billy wins their heads to head when he leans on magic, but physically he is the same. Following that logic, Thor only can punch at Superman's weight because Thor's powers are grounded in Asgardian magic.

Billy and Black Adam one shot Superboy Prime together, Mr. I can tank a full speed force charged Bart Allen, Mr. Punch out the anti-monitor, the guy who defeated Ion, who tortured Mxyplx, taken out by Billy Batson and Black Adam in a two shot.

He's more than capable of launching a moon around easy and doing it for a long time. One of the A's is for the Stamina of Atlas. Billy cannot get tired and worn down in this.

Further, he is capable of restoring himself to full power with magical lightning so even if Apocalypse can injure Billy, Billy can fix that as quick as you can say "Shazam."

 

Through his ability to travel to the Rock of Eternity and back, Billy can use the Historama, discover Apocalypse's whole shtick and then use his far superior mental age (Wisdom of Solomon) to out strategize him easily.

 

Billy Batson is 13, but is no mere boy. He is able to learn magic extremely quickly. His quick study is noted as impressive by the Wizard Shazam and John Constantine. That is an impressive set of props right there.

[UMPIRE]

Match Final Results

Apocalypse: 3
Captain Marvel / Shazam: 8