TroytheRobot

HALLELUJAH! A separate place for the FPL

We should just have a Goku vs Superman tournament.

Seems like a pretty cool idea. I give you a thumbs up treacheroo

Just some general information for all who are interested: Feel free to use this part of the board to create and conduct your own CBUB related tournaments, challenges, write-offs etc. etc. I can't imagine it'll see much use from me personally but if you want to battle it out with another CBUBer in the writing realm go right ahead.

The following was sent to me in a PM. Thread briefly reopened: You can respond here if you like. I'm not interested in continuing a cyclical argument though; what I've said in the topic remains true and like it or not that's simply how the system works. I've never been one for debates, arguments, flamewars (whatever you want to call them). Yet when there comes an opportunity for me (as a site administrator) to explain how the site works I usually take it. So by all means, respond if you wish but I won't be goaded into continuing this conversation. .... Also, it seems like there are those of you who weren't complete with this discussion. By all means continue beating each other's faces in but personally I've said my piece and I'm done. The rest of you though, have fun.

And in a moment of triumphant irony, Darkender comes off as being the sensible one. "L2P or GTFO" - Ivan

No, that's exactly what I'm saying. If it's not readable it's not really acceptable. You're confusing what's "necessary" with what's a part of the site's actual guidelines. For all intents and purposes, the CBUB is a game. Like all other games there are certain rules that need be followed in order for the system to thrive. Again, it goes back to what I was talking about with acceptable standard of quality. One paragraph of text is the minimal amount required to technically be considered a CBUB set-up; that point really isn't up for debate. Can you ask "Who would win between Batman and Spider-Man?" in less than a paragraph, sure. That's not the issue though, the issue is that a paragraph is what's "needed" for a CBUB match. I'm sorry, but that's just how the site works. And yet, I'm still not sure why you have such an aversion to it. It seems like it's just the thing for someone of your interests. *shrugs* The rating system, was put in place by Serge to reward those with entertaining set-ups and those who wrote set-ups that were a "crowd favorite". The CBUB, apart from being a game, is also a popularity contest. The rating system, possess a way for members of the site to put their two cents as to the entertainment of the match. In other words, it's a part of the site's guidelines and by extension the CBUB's rules. So the rating system is a method that rewards those members who followed and sometimes went above and beyond the basic guidelines of the site. It is a safety net in the sense that people can maintain relatively anonymous identities while approving/disproving the quality of certain set-ups. In this, "good" matches would be rewarded (they get a higher FPA, more available characters etc. etc.). And those matches that were below the acceptable standard of quality would not receive the same benefits. Again, this goes back to the "game element" of the CBUB. No, not at all. The entire point of my post was: Do whatever you have the most fun doing, but there are guidelines that the CBUB has. I'm not really sure how's that a contradiction. In order for it to be a contradiction, the two ideas need to be in opposition to one another. If people just want to discuss who would beat who WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE CBUB, then I have no problem with that. When I was talking about if people just wanted to know who would win, I was speaking more to the crowd of reviewers/readers/critics than the actual writers. That whole notion I described above has more to do with forum/debate etiquette than the guidelines of the site, and by extension the necessity of the set-up within the system. Furthermore, as I said before, there's a difference between "critiquing a match" and "using the site's rating system". The former would fall under the definition of being creative leaning while the other is simply a part of the site's mechanics. My "bias" lies in the fact that I know what I'm talking about.

The set-up is a part of the site's acceptable standard of quality. The FPL has standards, and believe it or not the CBUB does too. It's all a part of how the "game" actually works.

Care to tell me what you disagree with?

If the issue at hand really is whether or not peer critiques are a necessary part of the CBUB process, I really don't see a problem. While people like RiotGear may simply enjoy discussing "who beats who" in a very clear-cut manner that's up to them. I mean, I may not agree with this sentiment myself, but going back to my other post, different members are here for different reasons. For some of us, this IS a writing site. For others, this site exist as an outlet for debate. So, to me at least, it's really foolish to sit there and tell the other guy that this site is or isn't something. For example, to me this is a writing site. It always has been for me but I respect the fact that others may not see it as so. Now back to the matter at hand, if we are to believe that this portion of the site is truly divided between those that argue for the mechanics of the match and those who are here as a creative outlet then it really doesn't make sense for one group to make demands of the other. If a person wants to make a set-up just to see if Predator would beat Blackheart in a poker match, and they're not here for writing advice; there's really no reason that other members should be bombarding him with writing critiques. It's a different case, if the person right out says "What do you think of my set-up? What did you like about it? What didn't you like about it?" then there is an obvious call for criticism. Yet, if the person just wants to discuss power levels there's really no reason to beat his head in for not being a creative well-thought out match. Again, personally, I would much rather see the creative, well-thought out match; I don't give a damn about power levels. So if you know that the person is more creative leaning or they ask you to critique their writing , then feel free to offer whatever mutual advice you may have. On the other hand, if they don't expressly entail their interest in improving their writing skills, just stay out of it. That being said, for both of these groups certain guidelines need to be followed; some by unwritten mores of the site itself, and some because they simply don't make sense not to. First of all, the set-ups need to at least be readable. No, this is not meant to insult those of you who do not have English as their native language but there comes a point where one needs to say, "This is grammatically unacceptable." Again, I'm not poking fun at those of you who are grammatically inefficient (for whatever reason), and I'm not expecting you to be perfect but there comes a time when it is your duty as a site community to say that such brutalizations of grammar are not acceptable. Secondly, there are certain guidelines that a CBUB match NEEDS to have in order for it to be technically following the rules. I know these were written in the previous server's version of the site and I'm not sure they still exist. Anyways, here they are for those of you who are interested: 1.) Setting 2.) At least one paragraph in length 3.) A reason why the members of the match are in conflict with one another If you don't feel like doing even that minimal amount, feel free to use the Rumble board as previously suggested. Finally, the site's built in rating system (It's good, It's ok, It's bad) does not count as an actual critique, but as a technical measure designed to keep the site from crashing in on itself. It's really more of a safety net/reward system than a writing critique tool. Because honestly, you cant offer constructive criticism simply by going, "this is terrible!!" So, the use of those ratings isn't REALLY an issue here. I hope this helps.

I was on the CBUB for roughly nine months before I decided to leave that portion of the site altogether. Although, the interest had faded long before that. Also, I wouldn't exactly say I'm an FPLer per se. If you're definition of an FPLer is someone who makes FPL characters, then no I am not one of those people. The entire time I've been here I've only submitted two characters, both of which suck horribly. However, if by "FPLer" you mean someone who plots stories without ever actually finishing them while offering passing conceptual ideas to the continuity of the site and offers others rare critiques on the CA board; then yes, I would have to say that I'm an FPLer. As a final note, if you're serious about joining the FPL and you need a hand just let me know. I'd be glad to get you someone who knows what they're talking about.

The CBUB, like every other facet of this site, means different things to different people. In that regard, it's nearly impossible to say the CBUB is for one purpose or another. Both RiotGear and DSKillz believed that the CBUB had different, while not entirely contradictory purposes. I mean, a lot of the debate seems to be focused on "this is what you should do" vs. "that is unnecessary, this is just for fun." Though, I disagree with both of you on some parts I can't say I agree entirely with any one party. Why? Because I can't speak for the entire mass of CBUBers to say why they use the site. All I can really offer is why I was initially interested in the CBUB. My initial interest in the CBUB was in fact from a writing stand point. I wasn't necessarily interested in the power mechanics of what would happen if Character A fought Character B. Sure I could have a conversation every now and then on whether or not Cyclops' optic beams could blast through Captain America's shield but not enough to hold my attention for more than a brief conversation every now and then. To me, the CBUB offered a chance for members to take on the role as the writer of their favorite comic/movie/video game. It's like you had the chance to take characters with dozens of years of history and add your twist, your own creative flair to the character's story. I suppose you could say that I was more interested in telling a good story about why these characters were at conflict with one another, rather than getting opinions on the combative efficiencies/deficiencies of either character. That's what CBUB meant for ME, personally, I can't speak for anybody else. So, when the majority of the CBUB seemed to become more interested in feats, scans, power levels etc. etc. it played a huge role in my decision to leave that part of the site. However, despite all this M. Bison put it best. Do whatever you have the most fun doing. Side-note about Serge's comment regarding the FPL: The original concept may have been to discuss power combinations but the people who defined the FPL throughout it's 10+ year history will tell you that the FPL is a creative writing branch of Electric Ferret. Site ideas evolve and change based on how their members react. Same can be said about the CBUB and I don't really see anything wrong with that.

This is generally true of everything I write: I'll start out with a basic concept and then alter the underlying concept until it's something really interesting and entertaining. After that, I'll work on building up the details. You know, branching out that foundation concept so that the complexity of the story grows. Then I get distracted by something shiny and I never end up writing anything anyways. Finally I procrastinate for years without end and forget I was writing anything at all.

Who are you again?

I can't even name five current CBUB writers...

Topic closed.

Unfortunately, nothing is going to be happening with this for awhile.

All of your input is being taken into account as Graves and I work on creating a master list for the CBUB database clean-up. Keep in mind, this thread is in no way, shape or form a democratic one. However, we will try to take into account everyone's positions and implement the ones we feel are most beneficial and make the most sense. There's not really a projected date on when this is going to be done, but "in the near future" is as good an estimate as I can give. Feel free to keep discussing the database, but I'd prefer if we moved away from the argument of alternate-realities. Not to say that it isn't important, but I want to make sure we're considering other aspects of the database clean-up. Thanks

I'd just like to reiterate that the issue at hand here is not really whether or not the characters are different, but if they're different enough for a CBUB entry to be justified. There's a huge difference between the two. So, it's not as simple as looking at two characters and seeing if they are in fact different characters. Again, yes we know that the Ultimate Marvel Universe is different than Earth 616 Marvel Universe but that's not our primary concern. Our primary concern is, as I mentioned in my previous post, to keep the database relatively restricted to those characters that serve as an "imprint" for that particular character. Just wanted to make that clear.

Woah, talk about a convoluted topic chalk full of cheap shots. Ah well, we definitely expected something like this to happen. We have what? Around 6,000 character entries? So, we're all bound to disagree (and miss a few things) at some point. In a sense, this is why Graves and I decided to make this topic; so you guys would feel free to whine (er debate, hehe) to your heart's content. Keep in mind, a lot of these suggestions come from different theories on the CBUB database that have been tossed around on the boards/chat for years. The whole issue of allowing alternate universe characters or not? Yeah that whole issue started LONG before most of you got here. Hell, it was going on long before I got here too. So when we're making the list Graves and I decided to bring the issue to the forefront instead of assuming that people would be comfortable with accepting the way things are. As I mentioned, this debate is really all over the place but I'm just going to respond to the biggest issue at hand... Alternate Universes This is one of the biggest issues going on with the topic it seems. First off let's get something straight, we are well aware that there are difference between Thor and Ultimate Thor, Iron man and Ultimate Iron Man. We'll get back to that in a moment though. The question deals more with "Is there enough of a difference to warrant a separate entry in the CBUB." Let's talk about what a CBUB entry really is. It's essentially a placeholder, for a character. More specifically it's a placeholder that's representing a character in a generalized state. The CBUB was never meant to encompass characters through specific altercations. This is essentially why we don't have hundreds of Amazing Spider-Mans. I mean Amazing Fantasy #15's version of Peter Parker was very different than the one depicted in the comics today, why not give them separate entries? Because we're not concerned with each individual Peter Parker in the entire Spider-Man juncture. We're only concerned with the generally accepted imprint of who Spider-Man is. Here's another way to think about it; imagine Thor being separated into different states of existence starting from his very first panel written in August of 1962 to his most recent panel appearance and had them stand in an impossibly long line shoulder to shoulder. Technically in these thousands and thousands of different "Thors" there are indeed differences between. Some of those difference are quite substantial, others are as simple as an arm lift. Nevertheless, that change of state represents a different Thor in different moments of time. What the CBUB is essentially trying to do is look for commonalities that are consistent with these numerous forms of Thor. We look for a "generalized" Thor that serves as a representative for all the states of existence Thor has gone through. Think of it as if there were a country of Thors, the Thor in the CBUB would represent those thousands (millions?) of other Thors out in Thorland in the CBUB. Makes sense? Taking this same principle let's connect it to alternate-universe characters. Once again, we're faced with the same task of choosing a "representative" character to serve as the "model" character for countless different instances of differentiation. This time let's use Iron Man as an example. You have all the alternate version of Iron Man and have them stand in a row, shoulder to shoulder. In this row are every alternate-universe Iron Man ranging from Earth 616 to Earth 2122. First thing you'll probably notice is that there are indeed substantial differences between this legion of Starks that we've compiled. I mean look at the differences between Earth 2122 Iron Man and Earth 616 Iron Man. 2122 Iron Man is a member of the Sons of Liberty and has no problem with killing innocents. As we move down the line, we notice Earth 3490 in which Iron Man is not looking very manly at all but has assumed the identity of a woman named Natasha. Surely, these stark (look a bad pun) contrasts warrant different entries. Keep in mind though that we are only concerned with "the generally accepted imprint of who 'Iron Man' is" And so we once again look for commonalities between these numerous different Iron Men (and women, no I didn't forget you Natasha), and we see the central outline of what constitutes as "Iron Man" running consistent through mostly all of them. Yes, there are differences between these versions of characters, but the distinctions between them are not enough to alter the basic formula that has come to represent Iron Man. Of course if there was an Iron Man that was so completely different from it's original counterpart that only the most obscure minute details remained then that particular version of Iron would be "removed" from our line-up and not included in the Iron Man "equation". That brings up another point, as the writer's of these scenarios you are in control of how this character is depicted and by extension what version of that particular character you're leaning towards. Want to use Earth 2122 Iron Man in a set-up? Great! Your based on the context of the match your reads should be able to infer that this Iron Man is different than Earth 616's version. I'm all for character specifics and intimate characterization but these differences do no serve as enough of an altercation to the original to serve as the "generally accepted imprint". Simply put, they're great in set-up text but not really in a database listing. So in summary, keep the alternate version character entries extremely limited. Only when an alternate version is so strikingly different that the only similarity they posses (not just in name, setting, time period but in actual conceptual idea) are so obscure and minute that you'd need to use a proverbial microscope to see them.

Darn you rich text converter, darn you! We'll work on getting the text fixed.

Oddly enough he requested to have his account removed.

This. Nothing else, but this.

Hey thanks for the heads up! For now, we're not double checking on links. We've come across a few so far that need to be revised just by chance but it's not really something we're actively looking for. Right now we're just looking for names that need to be edited for consistency, cutting down on redundancy, deleting unnecessary or rule breaking characters, and just generally making the database more uniform. I imagine in the future though we'll spend some time making sure all the links still function and direct users to the correct pages, but that's honestly going to be a nightmare. Also, don't worry about characters being removed you'll have a chance to defend anything that's up for deletion once we're done going through the database.

The Lockthread monster! It comes for us all. Oh nose!