Master Chief vs Darth Vader

[Guest Ruinus]

And what makes you think that he would actually Force Push the Chief away?

 

There are many conditions that have to be met for that to actually happen:

1) First he needs to have Knowledge on what the Chief is actually capable of, and this goes beyond what Precog would give him.

2) He needs to then get over his need to hit things with his saber...

3) After that he has to decide to use the force on him rather than use his Saber...

4) Then he has to decide How to use the Force on him, Crush? Push?

5) After he has decided he then has to concentrate on the Chief, with either a gesture or time to think...

 

He'll have the precog vision of MC rushing him and he'll know he needs to put distance between them. From there it's simply Force Pushing him away.

 

Which means

1) You are telling Vader what he should do to beat the Chief

2) This right here is a 50/50 chance as it is...

3-5) Time taken to even consider what to do is dead time.

 

1) I'm simply stating what he would do, given the circumstances with his observed abilities: precog and TK.

2) Nope. He's not some idiot who simply bashes things all the time. He does and can use TK during his fights regularly and often (his fighting style involved TKing more agile people)

3-5) And he'll have a 1 second warning to Force Push MC away. MC can't react to a Force Push until he is already being knocked away.

 

Presume that Vader has Reflexes of 0.150 seconds, and that's the speed of his thought process. Meaning that Each of those steps past #2 is 0.150 seconds of thought. In order to actually use the Force to Push the Chief away and then dick around with him he would need 0.600 seconds of thought.

 

This would give the Chief Plenty of time to work...

 

 

You are also not giving them the fair playing field. Automatically assuming that they had met and were starring each other down for a couple seconds/minutes before acting.

 

Again:

Vader sees MC rush him with sword at -1 seconds.

At -.85 seconds later he Force Pushes MC away.

 

There is nothing here for MC to react to beyond "Oh shit, what the hell just knocked me off my feet?"

 

I picture the Best Scenario is that both of them have their weapons drawn and try to open the same door from opposite sides. Vader senses that there might be danger on the other side of the door, and the Chiefs Motion Radar says there is a hostile on the other side as well... Both have their Saber/Sword already out and are preparing for battle, when Whosh the door slides away to revile their opponent.

 

To me, even though this is the Perfect example of a Fair Intro... the Chief would win it. Because of his Heightened Reflexes even in surprise he could act faster than even if Vader were to not be surprised.

 

So basically the only thing that would give Vader the win is lopsided conditions in his Favour. Which means that the Majority of all fight scenarios would go in favour of the Chief.

 

Or Vader simply rips the door of its hinges and flings it and MC out of the way, giving him the necessary standoff distance to start TKing him.

 

[Guest force_echo]

What do you mean "its just the way it goes"? Actually that kinda outlines Skirmisher's entire debate, Ruinus and I have given A-cannon material about Jedi Reflexes and Prereg. and you assume just because MC has some vague power that was never mentioned or displayed in the game, he can now match the reflexes of one of the fastest people in the Star Wars universe? And their not turbolaser cannons, they are regular blaster rifles. The thing about the blaster bolt being hyperspace is bs, I admit, but according to the laws of physics blaster bolts, which is energized plasma, travel at the speed of electrons through space, 22,000 kmph, a little slower due to the prescence of air. Plus noones addressed the fact that Vader is vastly superior than MC in the sword fighting department.

 

I reiterate my argument from before:

 

Ok, I freaking said they werent light, can you read my post? I actively plain out said that they were plasma blasts, I seriously do not know how I could have made that any clearer. 22,000 kmph is nowhere near the speed of light, its not even close to 1% of the speed of light. And that dodge was a lucky flinch, theres a difference between an active dodge, like Spiderman, and a combination of inaccuracy, luck, and many other factors, humans dont actually dodge bullets, but sometimes a mix of inaccuracy and prereg. reflex before the gunshot is fired enables them not to be hit. "It isnt a Spider Sense... It only allows them to Anticipate what will happen..." Which is Spider sense. In that mini paragraph you stated exactly what Spider Sense is, which means either you dont know what Spider Sense is, dont know what Jedi prereg. is, or both. It is up to spidey's natural abilities to react to the warning his sixth sense provides, he can choose to ignore his Spider sense if he wishes, its the exact same as jedi prereg. Even if Vader hasnt shown the ability to use it, he has killed many jedi who could, which shows that his mech. reflexes are even faster than Jedi ones. And how come MC hasnt used Spartan time a SINGLE time in the game? In the game MC moves just as fast as everyone else, is it in a book or something?

[Skirmisher]

He'll have the precog vision of MC rushing him and he'll know he needs to put distance between them. From there it's simply Force Pushing him away.

Wow, that's utter Bullshit right there... The only time that Force Users ACTUALLY get visual Precognitive Images of what is to be is when they are Meditating, or concentrating on the future specifically. Even then it is Vague and Fuzzy and doesn't tell you *vulgarity* all, but it still requires time and thought on the subject!

 

Yet here you are Wanking Vader to be Super Precog Man who always sees Exactly what will happen Next. Cool Story Bro, but it just doesn't work like that. If it did then Far more Jedi/sith would survive the battles we see them in, because they would know the Exact Threat and why to deal with it, rather than how we see them dealing with Vague uncertain threats that they know they must stop somehow...

 

So Vader Seeing the Cheif Run at him? Nope.

Vader even knowing that the Chief will rush him? Nope.

Vader knowing that he should Force Push the Chief? Nope.

Vader Knowing that the Chief Really want's to kill him? Yes.

Vader knowing that he has to defend against a "Lightsaber"? Yes.

 

 

1) I'm simply stating what he would do, given the circumstances with his observed abilities: precog and TK.

2) Nope. He's not some idiot who simply bashes things all the time. He does and can use TK during his fights regularly and often (his fighting style involved TKing more agile people)

3-5) And he'll have a 1 second warning to Force Push MC away. MC can't react to a Force Push until he is already being knocked away.

1) Once again you wank Battle Precognition, confusing it with Force Precognition. Even though the two skills are the same, due to the "Battle" part snapped onto the front of it, it significantly reduces it's power in battle. Even then Force Precognition was fairly weak as it is. So no, Vader doesn't see exactly what you want him to see.

 

2) I know he's not an Idiot, but the First thing that any Jedi or Sith would think to use in a surprise situation is their Lightsaber. It's been drilled into their Instincts by training and experience. When a Jedi or Sith is fired upon by a Blaster what to they do? They Draw their Saber and Deflect it, they don't Force Dodge, they don't Force Absorb. I know that he would eventually try to TK the Chief, but I am saying that Instinctively it is not his first Answer.

 

3-5) Again though Even if Vader Magically had a Complete Understanding of Everything that would happen in the Next and did force push the Chief away, the Chief would react to that push in 0.020 seconds (Guesstimate on surprise Reaction time: 0.070 seconds). Seeing as how his opponent did something inexplicable, he would either Fight or Flee, and it would probably be a combination of Whiping his sword at Vader as he tucks, rolls and GsTFO of there... I could only presume that the Chief could whip such a light weapon much faster than any Natural Human could, and my guess would be close to 250 m/s. As an instinctive natural reaction, and I would doubt that Vader would be able to do Anything about that since you have clearly said that he would not even attempt to draw his lightsaber in this battle...

 

 

Again:

Vader sees MC rush him with sword at -1 seconds.

At -.85 seconds later he Force Pushes MC away.

 

There is nothing here for MC to react to beyond "Oh shit, what the hell just knocked me off my feet?"

This is still with the belief that Vader has the Magical had a Complete Understanding of Everything that would happen in the Next...

 

 

Or Vader simply rips the door of its hinges and flings it and MC out of the way, giving him the necessary standoff distance to start TKing him.

 

 

Yes, but as you see his Precognition didn't tell him that they wouldn't know where Obi-wan was, or else why ask? As well, see what he does to the Jedi? No Instant TK. No Instant. No Instant Force Push. No Instant Force Grip. He uses his Saber. As a Reaction he uses the Weapon he was trained in for Decades. As a Reaction he uses the first weapon he mastered. Not the Force.

 

I would think that he would attempt to Grip the Jedi to find out what she knew, after all he wanted to find Obi-wan Kanobi. And his questioning persisted even after the one character told him it was a lie and a trap.

 

 

Also, I didn't know you like Nicolas Cage Movies... I find his rolls somewhat similar to every other roll he's played...

[Indolent]

What do you mean "its just the way it goes"? Actually that kinda outlines Skirmisher's entire debate, Ruinus and I have given A-cannon material about Jedi Reflexes and Prereg. and you assume just because MC has some vague power that was never mentioned or displayed in the game, he can now match the reflexes of one of the fastest people in the Star Wars universe? And their not turbolaser cannons, they are regular blaster rifles. The thing about the blaster bolt being hyperspace is bs, I admit, but according to the laws of physics blaster bolts, which is energized plasma, travel at the speed of electrons through space, 22,000 kmph, a little slower due to the prescence of air. Plus noones addressed the fact that Vader is vastly superior than MC in the sword fighting department.

 

I reiterate my argument from before:

Here I go then...

 

The novels hold a higher canon then the videogames, in that which only the cut-scenes and cinematic of said videogames are canon, or so I've been told, everything else in it is non canon and that is due to the game mechanics.

 

Its been explored somewhat in the novel, and its here where this concept comes from, of the highest canon. This is why we're speaking of it.

[Skirmisher]

Plus noones addressed the fact that Vader is vastly superior than MC in the sword fighting department.

There are different standards of Superiority...

 

Vader is superior to the Chief in Swordsmanship...

 

But the Chief is utterly Superior to him in Natural Advantages that Cancels out that Swordsmanship advantage.

 

 

You can have all the skill in the World, but be unable to beat someone who is many times Faster and Stronger than you are.

 

Vader is outmatched by a Superior Opponent, regardless of his Skill with the Blade.

[Guest Ruinus]

Wow, that's utter Bullshit right there... The only time that Force Users ACTUALLY get visual Precognitive Images of what is to be is when they are Meditating, or concentrating on the future specifically. Even then it is Vague and Fuzzy and doesn't tell you *vulgarity* all, but it still requires time and thought on the subject!

 

 

 

Luke, blind, able to move his saber to the exact spot where the bolts would land.

 

 

 

 

Children, blind, able to move their sabers to the exact spot where the bolts would land.

 

2)When a Jedi or Sith is fired upon by a Blaster what to they do? They Draw their Saber and Deflect it, they don't Force Dodge, they don't Force Absorb. I know that he would eventually try to TK the Chief, but I am saying that Instinctively it is not his first Answer.

 

3-5) the Chief would react to that push in 0.020 seconds (Guesstimate on surprise Reaction time: 0.070 seconds). Seeing as how his opponent did something inexplicable, he would either Fight or Flee, and it would probably be a combination of Whiping his sword at Vader as he tucks, rolls and GsTFO of there... I could only presume that the Chief could whip such a light weapon much faster than any Natural Human could, and my guess would be close to 250 m/s. As an instinctive natural reaction, and I would doubt that Vader would be able to do Anything about that since you have clearly said that he would not even attempt to draw his lightsaber in this battle...

 

2)

 

 

 

3-5) Assumes the MC can react to Force Push beyond "try to land on feet". Why would the Force Push be weak enough that MC would be able to retaliate instantely?

 

Hell, it also assumes Vader doesn't immediately use Force Grip afterwards.

 

Yes, but as you see his Precognition didn't tell him that they wouldn't know where Obi-wan was, or else why ask? As well, see what he does to the Jedi? No Instant TK. No Instant. No Instant Force Push. No Instant Force Grip. He uses his Saber. As a Reaction he uses the Weapon he was trained in for Decades. As a Reaction he uses the first weapon he mastered. Not the Force.

 

I would think that he would attempt to Grip the Jedi to find out what she knew, after all he wanted to find Obi-wan Kanobi. And his questioning persisted even after the one character told him it was a lie and a trap.

 

Oh oops. Fighting Jedi/Sith who are trained to block/dodge such attacks and also have precog, and can also cloud your own senses, is totally different than fighting a person who can't.

 

He didn't use instant TK because he didn't need to. He goes on to kill 4 Jedi Masters and 3 Jedi Knights, both by saber skill and by impaling one of them by TKing his severered hand (holding sword) into a Knight's chest. He then Force Grips the Jedi Master (posted the image a while back) mid air and let's his clones have it.

[Guest thetrekker]

2)

 

 

Dammit. I was going to bring up the same example.

[Indolent]

*makes note not to involve Halos and Star Wars in the same match*

[Guest MarvelFan15]

*makes note not to involve Halos and Star Wars in the same match*

 

I made that note long ago...

 

...

 

Actually, I haven't. I've only made a note to avoid creating lopsided Star Wars/Halo battles.

 

EDIT: Added "creating."

[Guest force_echo]

 

 

Luke, blind, able to move his saber to the exact spot where the bolts would land.

 

 

 

 

Children, blind, able to move their sabers to the exact spot where the bolts would land.

 

 

 

2)

 

 

 

3-5) Assumes the MC can react to Force Push beyond "try to land on feet". Why would the Force Push be weak enough that MC would be able to retaliate instantely?

 

Hell, it also assumes Vader doesn't immediately use Force Grip afterwards.

 

 

 

Oh oops. Fighting Jedi/Sith who are trained to block/dodge such attacks and also have precog, and can also cloud your own senses, is totally different than fighting a person who can't.

 

He didn't use instant TK because he didn't need to. He goes on to kill 4 Jedi Masters and 3 Jedi Knights, both by saber skill and by impaling one of them by TKing his severered hand (holding sword) into a Knight's chest. He then Force Grips the Jedi Master (posted the image a while back) mid air and let's his clones have it.

Amazing example, thats checkmate right there.

[Indolent]

Wasn't the glove microizonized to deflect anything short of a lightsaber...? And it looks like it impacted with his hand because if he had deflected it with the force, there would have been no sparks... correct?

 

On another note, Han fired his blaster before Vader raised his hand to deflect it... looks like its not at the speeds force_echo's putting across... -.- Otherwise, if it was at the speeds force_echo specified, Vader should be dead right then and there and Han Solo would be then crowned a hero for slaying the bastard. -.-

[Guest thetrekker]

Wasn't the glove microizonized to deflect anything short of a lightsaber...? And it looks like it impacted with his hand because if he had deflected it with the force, there would have been no sparks... correct?

 

On another note, Han fired his blaster before Vader raised his hand to deflect it... looks like its not at the speeds force_echo's putting across... -.-

Great example of blaster speeds. Checkmate force_echo. JK. but on the other hand (pun intended) "Trioculus was ignorant of the fact that this ability was an aspect of Darth Vader's aptitude with the Force, and had nothing at all to do with his glove." Talking about Vader's right glove (which he is using in the pictures) source: wookiepedia. It talks about long range attack's but I believe that it was just an ordinary glove.

 

Besides, doesn't it look like the bolt explodes before it touches his glove. Maybe the sparks were just a show of force (GAWD I"M PUNNY). I don't want to get involved in this argument to much because I don't want to get destroyed by skirm or ruinus, and I don't want to fight you again Jaeger.

[Skirmisher]

Luke, blind, able to move his saber to the exact spot where the bolts would land.

 

Because the Force allowed him to anticipate where the bolt would strike. It's not as if he said anything to the effect that he could actually See where the bolt would be moments before it hits. Obi-wan even says to act on instinct for that moment, to feel it... Thus, it only allows the Jedi/Sith to anticipate what might happen, not give them a Perfect Vision of what will happen.

 

 

Children, blind, able to move their sabers to the exact spot where the bolts would land.

 

Once again, this shows no proof that they have a Perfect Vision of what will happen, just a feeling that they have to move their sabers to a specific place to block a bolt.

 

 

2) Beside the point, Vader knew clearly that they would be there, not from the force but from his video surveillance, multiple contacts, and Lando himself, so there was NO way in hell he could have been surprised by that... He also needed Han alive to lure Luke to Bispin and freeze him for the Emperor.

 

3-5) Assumes the MC can react to Force Push beyond "try to land on feet". Why would the Force Push be weak enough that MC would be able to retaliate instantely?

 

Hell, it also assumes Vader doesn't immediately use Force Grip afterwards.

 

You assume to much about the Force, maybe you should let it rest because you might bruise something from all that Wanking you're doing...

 

 

Oh oops. Fighting Jedi/Sith who are trained to block/dodge such attacks and also have precog, and can also cloud your own senses, is totally different than fighting a person who can't.

 

He didn't use instant TK because he didn't need to. He goes on to kill 4 Jedi Masters and 3 Jedi Knights, both by saber skill and by impaling one of them by TKing his severered hand (holding sword) into a Knight's chest. He then Force Grips the Jedi Master (posted the image a while back) mid air and let's his clones have it.

Yeah, but Instant Reaction to danger was "Saber though the chest"... not "TK dat beotch"....

Mine in Olive

 

Amazing example, thats checkmate right there.

Shows how much you know...

[Guest Ruinus]

It's not as if he said anything to the effect that he could actually See where the bolt would be moments before it hits.

Qui-Gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait."

2) Beside the point, Vader knew clearly that they would be there, not from the force but from his video surveillance, multiple contacts, and Lando himself, so there was NO way in hell he could have been surprised by that... He also needed Han alive to lure Luke to Bispin and freeze him for the Emperor.

 

The hell? It doesn't matter if he needed Han or not for something else, it doesn't even matter if Vader saw Han and co outside the door through a security feed, the point of the image was that your statement:

 

They Draw their Saber and Deflect it, they don't Force Dodge, they don't Force Absorb. I know that he would eventually try to TK the Chief, but I am saying that Instinctively it is not his first Answer.

 

Is wrong. The first thing he did was deflect the bolts with his hand.

 

You assume to much about the Force, maybe you should let it rest because you might bruise something from all that Wanking you're doing...

 

Not an actual argument. Force precog, the ability to see things before they happen, TKing things around (including metal doors) and Force grip are all in Vaders capability.

 

Yeah, but Instant Reaction to danger was "Saber though the chest"... not

"TK dat beotch"....

 

Given how fast she died, why would he need to TK her?

[Indolent]

Great example of blaster speeds. Checkmate force_echo. JK. but on the other hand (pun intended) "Trioculus was ignorant of the fact that this ability was an aspect of Darth Vader's aptitude with the Force, and had nothing at all to do with his glove." Talking about Vader's right glove (which he is using in the pictures) source: wookiepedia. It talks about long range attack's but I believe that it was just an ordinary glove.

 

Besides, doesn't it look like the bolt explodes before it touches his glove. Maybe the sparks were just a show of force (GAWD I"M PUNNY). I don't want to get involved in this argument to much because I don't want to get destroyed by skirm or ruinus, and I don't want to fight you again Jaeger.

Not, the sparks seem to emanate from his hand. To me it seems anyways. -.-

 

And here:

 

 

 

The second one, I actually tried to get it and I actually had the bolt JUST about to impact his hand before it disappears and explodes into the sparks. I failed to save the picture however and this is the best I can do...

 

However, besides that, can you see how I'm thinking that the sparks are emanating from his hands because the bolts are actually hitting his hand? Especially the first one. BTW, sorry about the color... best quality I could find. -.-

 

Oh... and shame on you for trying to trick me about the glove....

 

"The gauntlet's value as a symbol was of little use to the three-eyed mutant, but its potential for use as a weapon was considered to be incalculable. It was his belief that the glove was actually a mystical relic that provided its wearer with the ability to telekinetically attack others from a distance. Trioculus was ignorant of the fact that this ability was an aspect of Darth Vader's aptitude with the Force, and had nothing at all to do with his glove."

 

SOURCE: WOOKIEPEDIA

 

It's talking about Vader's ability to use the Force, and Trioculus's false belief in that the glove provided the user the telekinetic powers afforded by the Force... mentioning nothing of its ability of deflecting stuff as well as Vader's feat of actually having had deflected stuff.

 

Here:

 

"His gloves were made with a unique micronized iron that could deflect anything short of a lightsaber blow"

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader%27s_armor

 

In the Limbs section.

 

He used Force Perception or whatever to follow where the bolts would come but the glove did all the deflecting.

 

EDIT: Honestly, there's a link within the Darth Vader Armor link that takes you to that exact same location of Trioculus and the glove... right in the same sentence of it being able to deflect shit.

[Guest Ruinus]

Force Absorb. Jedi/Sith can absorb blaster bolts, lightning (and even lightsabers?!?!?!) and use that energy themselves. However, given that in all those images and examples the Force user is not wearing gloves, it's possible that Vader was using his gloves. He never showed the ability to do so (AFAIK) before being in his suit, and we don't know if he learnend to do so without gloves on.

[Skirmisher]

The point of the images was that your statement:

The only time that Force Users ACTUALLY get visual Precognitive Images of what is to be is when they are Meditating, or concentrating on the future specifically. Even then it is Vague and Fuzzy and doesn't tell you *vulgarity* all, but it still requires time and thought on the subject!

 

Is wrong on all accounts.

 

Either the Force tells them what is going to happen (You are going to get shot, move your hands this much, the saber this much, etc etc) or it simply gives them the image of what they are supposed to do. Or, the Force completely takes over their body and moves it for them. (The whole, give in to the moment, feel it, Use the Force etc etc thing they say).

 

Neither Luke, nor any of those younglings were meditating or concecntrating on the future specifically, Jedi precog occurs naturally through battle, all the time.

 

Either it requires no thought (Since Luke and the kids can't see, and don't know when the remote will fire. They still block anyways), or it does require thought and the precog comes early enough for them to still block the attack.

 

Also, I don't care if its not a perfect vision, its a good enough vision that even kids can know how to move their lightsabers to block a bolt. In fact, when did I ever claim he needed a perfect vision?

Completely Irrelevant to the Discussion at hand

 

Your whole point was that Vader would see Exactly where the chief was, what he was doing, what he was going to do, when he would do it, how he would do it, as if it were all a movie being played out in front of him.

 

I'm saying that all it does in battle is gives the user the ability to Anticipate his opponents actions, as such it would allow the force user to anticipate Where to move his/her blade to block a bolt.

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Precognition

 

"Battle Precognition was a variant of precognition that allowed one to sense the flows of the Force."

 

=/=

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Vision

 

"Generally, when peering deep into the Force, a Force user had the potential to see events that could happen in the future. Force Visions were extremely rare, and uncontrollable. Often, one would meditate to gain a vision, but only a few would actually succeed."

 

 

All Vader would know is:

 

1) The Chief will kill him if he doesn't act fast

2) The Chief will physically strike him with a Dangerous Weapon

3) Where the Chief will strike at him with the Weapon

 

That is all.

 

 

The hell? It doesn't matter if he needed Han or not for something else, it doesn't even matter if Vader saw Han and co outside the door through a security feed, the point of the image was that your statement:

 

They Draw their Saber and Deflect it, they don't Force Dodge, they don't Force Absorb. I know that he would eventually try to TK the Chief, but I am saying that Instinctively it is not his first Answer.

 

Is wrong. The first thing he did was deflect the bolts with his hand.

Actually you're wrong, so wrong that I pity you...

 

They Draw their Saber and Deflect it, they don't Force Dodge, they don't Force Absorb. I know that he would eventually try to TK the Chief, but I am saying that Instinctively it is not his first Answer.

 

In a surprise situation Instinct is the Key word here. If Vader never knew that Han was on the other side of the door, or that Han was even on Cloud City, of anything like that he would have Pulled his lightsaber out to deflect the attack.

 

You have only shown that Vader with FULL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHERE AND WHAT HAN WAS DOING FORMULATED A PLAN TO NOT INJURE HAN _yet AND USE HIM AS BAIT....

 

Please come back with an actual argument next time...

 

 

Not an actual argument. Force precog, the ability to see things before they happen, TKing things around (including metal doors) and Force grip are all in Vaders capability.

Yes, but you seem to confuse Force Visions with Battle Precognition, and over extimate the actual worth of Battle Precognition.

 

 

Given how fast she died, why would he need to TK her?

IDK, ask her the location of Obi-Wan? But also notice the Instinctive Saber defense... not the Instinctive TK Grip/Push/Throw/Crush....

[Guest thetrekker]

Not, the sparks seem to emanate from his hand. To me it seems anyways. -.-

 

The second one, I actually tried to get it and I actually had the bolt JUST about to impact his hand before it disappears and explodes into the sparks. I failed to save the picture however and this is the best I can do...

 

However, besides that, can you see how I'm thinking that the sparks are emanating from his hands because the bolts are actually hitting his hand? Especially the first one. BTW, sorry about the color... best quality I could find. -.-

 

Oh... and shame on you for trying to trick me about the glove....

 

"The gauntlet's value as a symbol was of little use to the three-eyed mutant, but its potential for use as a weapon was considered to be incalculable. It was his belief that the glove was actually a mystical relic that provided its wearer with the ability to telekinetically attack others from a distance. Trioculus was ignorant of the fact that this ability was an aspect of Darth Vader's aptitude with the Force, and had nothing at all to do with his glove."

 

SOURCE: WOOKIEPEDIA

 

It's talking about Vader's ability to use the Force, and Trioculus's false belief in that the glove provided the user the telekinetic powers afforded by the Force... mentioning nothing of its ability of deflecting stuff as well as Vader's feat of actually having had deflected stuff.

 

Here:

 

"His gloves were made with a unique micronized iron that could deflect anything short of a lightsaber blow"

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader%27s_armor

 

In the Limbs section.

 

EDIT: Honestly, there's a link within the Darth Vader Armor link that takes you to that exact same location of Trioculus and the glove... right in the same sentence of it being able to deflect shit.

 

Forgive me, I was only using the article to my advantage, cutting things off to suit my purposes. I didn't look at that link because I directly searched for "vader glove" on wookiepedia. I'm supposed to be doing some literary analysis writing, but that is boring plus my other reason for not wanting to fight you.

 

As per the pictures, (in the first one) I can't really tell where the bolt begins, but in the second one, it looks like the bolt is a 1/100000000000 of a second away before hitting his hand. I'm still debating whether Vader exploded the bolt after that time, or whether his glove reacted with it.

 

I admit my surrender on the argument.

[Guest Ruinus]

Completely Irrelevant to the Discussion at hand

 

Your whole point was that Vader would see Exactly where the chief was, what he was doing, what he was going to do, when he would do it, how he would do it, as if it were all a movie being played out in front of him.

 

Qui-Gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait."

Actually you're wrong, so wrong that I pity you...

 

Please come back with an actual argument next time...

 

All he knew was that Han was outside, not that he would fire on him. For that he had his Force precog, and again, simply put out his hand.

 

Show Vader being ambushed and him not using Force absorb or some TK or similar.

 

What would it matter? In your scenario with the doors and Vader and MC meeting each other, Vader will know that MC is on the other side. The only way Vader would not know before hand about MCs impending attacks would be if you take away his precog power completely.

 

Yes, but you seem to confuse Force Visions with Battle Precognition, and over extimate the actual worth of Battle Precognition.

 

Again:

Qui-Gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait."

IDK, ask her the location of Obi-Wan? But also notice the Instinctive Saber defense... not the Instinctive TK Grip/Push/Throw/Crush....

 

And again: why would he NEED to use TK on her? She died IMMEDIATELY. It's like asking someone why they didn't get the insecticide to kill that bug, after they just step on it.

[Skirmisher]

Hmm... Pulling the video out and aliasing the frames for the Gauntlet attack...

 

 

# = Frame

 

#1 ~ Han is pointing the blaster at Vader and you can see the muzzle flash

#2 ~ Nothing has changed except no mussel flash

#3 ~ The Bolt is half way across the table

#4 ~ The Bolt is at Vader's hand

#5 ~ Cloned Frame, same as last

#6 ~ Bolt Disappears, Closer inspection shows that all that is visible is the smaller tail end of the bolt, with the rest presumably in the Glove

#7 ~ Bright Flash

 

 

However the Next Blaster bolt that we can see from In Front of Vader shows that Afterwards on Vaders palm there is a slight mark or discolouration where the blaster bolt would have hit.

 

Presumably he intercepted the Bolts with his super gloves and let them do the same work a Light Saber would have done, without they messy Reflected shot to worry about.

[Indolent]

Forgive me, I was only using the article to my advantage, cutting things off to suit my purposes. I didn't look at that link because I directly searched for "vader glove" on wookiepedia. I'm supposed to be doing some literary analysis writing, but that is boring plus my other reason for not wanting to fight you.

 

As per the pictures, (in the first one) I can't really tell where the bolt begins, but in the second one, it looks like the bolt is a 1/100000000000 of a second away before hitting his hand. I'm still debating whether Vader exploded the bolt after that time, or whether his glove reacted with it.

 

I admit my surrender on the argument.

Yeah, literary analysis SUCK. I have to do them everyday. And please, don't do it again.

 

Well, I actually had a closer picture of it but lost that. Please take a closer look at it when you have the time. I see the tip about to impact with Vader's hand. Its hard to see and if you wish, I can highlight it for you.

 

I'm actually still wondering what you mean by not wanting to fight me. I forgot any other times we've fought before... oh, wait, Pokemon? Meh. -.-

 

@ Ruinus, I don't think he's ever used that, he seems to mainly focus on the use of his saber, Force Choke, Crush, and telekinesis...

[Skirmisher]

Qui-Gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait."

Face/palm

 

Yes, and seeing things before they happen is covered in Force Vision.

 

The Reason why that would give him quick reflexes is because he would have anticipated what would happen based on those visions. Much like Groundhog Day staring Bill Murry..

 

Except Force Visions are still vague and indecisive. The only thing Anakin has over the rest is that he usually get's his visions in his Dreams as well... which as young Anakin would give him the apparent subconscious ability to pilot a pod racer.

 

However... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_vision

 

"Force vision had its limitations. The user—particularly if he or she was a Sith—was incapable of foreseeing their own death. Palpatine never in his visions of the future saw himself die. Darth Caedus also saw many possibilities of the future, yet none of them involved his death. It is unknown why this limitation occurred."

 

Anakin after becoming Vader lost the one part of that ability which would save him... In a surprise situation against the Chief, without a perfect vision of what would happen he would die. As such because he would Die, he would not have a Vision of this event.

 

 

Another thing... when Qui-Gon caught Jar-Jar's tongue he wasn't that fast...

 

 

All he knew was that Han was outside, not that he would fire on him. For that he had his Force precog, and again, simply put out his hand.

Any Idiot would understand that Han would have fired at him...

 

"Hmm... I am the Commander of a Task Force that is hunting the Rebels... I just destroyed their base at Hoth, and had chased the Millennium Falcon through an asteroid field... Now I have cornered them here on Cloud City... I think they will be happy to see me, after all... I bought them a nice "I'm 'Sowwy' Cake" for nearly killing them several times..."

 

He knew Han was there, he Knew Han was armed, jimmy the mentally deficient simple in the corner knew that Han would want to do bad things to Vader... Why can't you see that?

 

 

Show Vader being ambushed and him not using Force absorb or some TK or similar.

 

 

What would it matter? In your scenario with the doors and Vader and MC meeting each other, Vader will know that MC is on the other side. The only way Vader would not know before hand about MCs impending attacks would be if you take away his precog power completely.

No, I'm saying that Precog in general isn't as good as you're wanking it to be... Like I said before...

 

All Vader would know is:

 

1) The Chief will kill him if he doesn't act fast

2) The Chief will physically strike him with a Dangerous Weapon

3) Where the Chief will strike at him with the Weapon

 

That is all.

 

 

And again: why would he NEED to use TK on her? She died IMMEDIATELY. It's like asking someone why they didn't get the insecticide to kill that bug, after they just step on it.

Not the Point, stop trying to side-step the issue...

 

Vader's Instinctive Reaction to getting attacked was to use his Saber. Not TK

[Indolent]

Wait, you're saying he can use Force Absorb though he's never been shown to use it or been portrayed as using it?

 

WTF?

[Guest Ruinus]

Face/palm

 

Yes, and seeing things before they happen is covered in Force Vision.

 

Except that a Force Vision is the ones you get about the future, events that will happen (Padme dying during childbirth, Anakin's mother dying, etc). What Qui-gon was talking about is precognition, not Anakin sleeping and seeing the entire race unfold before him during a dream.

 

Who the hell cares if Qui-gon was fast or not? He was just grabbing Jar Jars tongue for christ sake.

 

He knew Han was there, he Knew Han was armed, jimmy the mentally deficient simple in the corner knew that Han would want to do bad things to Vader... Why can't you see that?

 

Why can't you see Vader blocking the shots exactly where they would have hit? Again, precog.

 

Image snip

 

Oops, that's Vader walking in already expecting shit with his lightsaber, not Vader being ambushed.

 

No, I'm saying that Precog in general isn't as good as you're wanking it to be... Like I said before...

 

All Vader would know is:

 

1) The Chief will kill him if he doesn't act fast

2) The Chief will physically strike him with a Dangerous Weapon

3) Where the Chief will strike at him with the Weapon

 

That is all.

 

And again, you are ignoring Qui-gon's comment in Ep I and pretending its a Force Vision instead of precog. The Force tells people what do to (hence, Luke and the kids being blind and still able to block the blaster fire) to get out of shit. All Vader needs to see is MC attacking him and possibly beating him, for Vader to Force push him out of the way.

 

Not the Point, stop trying to side-step the issue...

 

Vader's Instinctive Reaction to getting attacked was to use his Saber. Not TK

 

Stop trying to doge the issue! Why didn't you use the insectide against that ant, and instead used your fingers! CLEARLY THE INSECTICIDE IS FAKE!

[Indolent]

For the battle between Vader and John, without the armies, it would seem plausible that they would be in close proximity as they're supposed to be in close combat so... potentially a few yards or meters away. -.-