Master Chief vs Darth Vader

Skirmisher · September 12, 2010

also, since it "allows them to anticipate what happens", once could logically assume that Darth Vader would anticipate the Master Chiefs attack and either Force Push him away, slash him with the Lightsaber as he attacks, simply catch him with Grip, or as Vader generally did to counter faster opponents "use the Force to pull out anything from his surroundings that wasn't nailed to the ground and fling the improvised missiles at his opponent".

In my opening argument I assumed that he did Anticipate the Chiefs Attack... but with their speed differences Vader could not do Anything about it.

In my opening statement Vader WAS going for a Grip/Push/whatever... it's just that with a Spartan moving at 105kph with Reflexes that literally Blur when watched (Qui-gon's hands never blured) Vader would have been no better than a Stone Statue to the Chief.

For Anything in Vader's arsenal to have worked he would need to have Not Died in the first Second of the fight.

September 12, 2010

Vader, as per Ep V, doesn't need hand movements to choke people. He killed Admiral Ozzel without any hand gestures over a viewscreen.

Skirmisher · September 12, 2010

Vader, as per Ep V, doesn't need hand movements to choke people. He killed Admiral Ozzel without any hand gestures over a viewscreen.

We don't see his hands during that choke... And the way he was siting suggested that his hands were already pointing at the Admiral, and although resting he only needed to motion with a hand, rather than the whole arm...

September 12, 2010

Ok... Blasters are not Laser Weapons... they're charged plasma blasts... That means that they don't travel anywhere Near the Speed of Light, though with enough energy they could get really close...

What it means is that the More powerful the shot, the faster it goes... But from evidence in the Movies... an Average Anti-Personnel Blast only travels at roughly 40m/s there are some instances where higher powered rifles fire much faster, in the 100 to 200 m/s range of speed... And then there's the Most powerful Blasters used by Infantry the Long Blasters which can cut a man in half at long range, and are seen with Velocities approaching that of conventional firearms... but that's not the case here...

They're firing E-11's and all usual times that you see a Jedi/Sith parrying shots is from close range small arms... at such ranges the firer wouldn't have though to increase the Power of his bolts because that wastes ammo.

Also there's this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RKONrE4j_U

Notice that there was one trooper who DODGED the Blast Just as it was being parried by Kiadimundi? This would mean that Said Blaster Bolt could not have been traveling anywhere near the 6100m/s that you think they travel... and Basing it off of other calcs that have shown speeds as slow as 40 m/s then it is Likely that their Standard Blasts move THAT slow, and could be Dodged or Parried by highly Skilled people, without the use of the Force... the Force only allows them to Anticipate Where the attack will come from and allow them with their skill to move their blade to where the attack will be...

Force Precognition only allows them to Anticipate what will happen moments into the future... With Anikens Pod Race, it allowed him to know instinctively that he would have to make a turn left or right, or that there were Jagged rocks up ahead...

It isn't a Spider Sense... it only allows them to Anticipate what will happen... it's up to their Natural skills and abilities after that, and that's why Jedi and Sith Train the shit out of themselves with loads of Physical Work... The more trained their bodies are the better they are to react to what they anticipate...

Except here a Spartans Natural Abilities are Many Times Greater than a Jedi/Sith's and there is no way in hell that they could keep up with a Spartan in combat, unless they were to Actively use Force Speed... Except Vader has NEVER shown the ability to use Force Speed... and I doubt that he could use it with his mechanical limbs....

Ok, I freaking said they werent light, can you read my post? I actively plain out said that they were plasma blasts, I seriously do not know how I could have made that any clearer. 22,000 kmph is nowhere near the speed of light, its not even close to 1% of the speed of light. And that dodge was a lucky flinch, theres a difference between an active dodge, like Spiderman, and a combination of inaccuracy, luck, and many other factors, humans dont actually dodge bullets, but sometimes a mix of inaccuracy and prereg. reflex before the gunshot is fired enables them not to be hit. "It isnt a Spider Sense... It only allows them to Anticipate what will happen..." Which is Spider sense. In that mini paragraph you stated exactly what Spider Sense is, which means either you dont know what Spider Sense is, dont know what Jedi prereg. is, or both. It is up to spidey's natural abilities to react to the warning his sixth sense provides, he can choose to ignore his Spider sense if he wishes, its the exact same as jedi prereg. Even if Vader hasnt shown the ability to use it, he has killed many jedi who could, which shows that his mech. reflexes are even faster than Jedi ones. And how come MC hasnt used Spartan time a SINGLE time in the game? In the game MC moves just as fast as everyone else, is it in a book or something?

Indolent · September 12, 2010

Ok, I freaking said they werent light, can you read my post? I actively plain out said that they were plasma blasts, I seriously do not know how I could have made that any clearer. 22,000 kmph is nowhere near the speed of light, its not even close to 1% of the speed of light. And that dodge was a lucky flinch, theres a difference between an active dodge, like Spiderman, and a combination of inaccuracy, luck, and many other factors, humans dont actually dodge bullets, but sometimes a mix of inaccuracy and prereg. reflex before the gunshot is fired enables them not to be hit. "It isnt a Spider Sense... It only allows them to Anticipate what will happen..." Which is Spider sense. In that mini paragraph you stated exactly what Spider Sense is, which means either you dont know what Spider Sense is, dont know what Jedi prereg. is, or both. It is up to spidey's natural abilities to react to the warning his sixth sense provides, he can choose to ignore his Spider sense if he wishes, its the exact same as jedi prereg. Even if Vader hasnt shown the ability to use it, he has killed many jedi who could, which shows that his mech. reflexes are even faster than Jedi ones. And how come MC hasnt used Spartan time a SINGLE time in the game? In the game MC moves just as fast as everyone else, is it in a book or something?

In actuality... The Spider Sense tells when and where it will happen as well as the severity. Its telling you. Its not anticipating. Two different things. -.- And its actually tied into Spidey's reflexes so it can dodge for him... so it does it for him. He has to override both the sense and the dodge reflex mechanism.

Yeah, its in the novels.

September 12, 2010

I'm thinking the MC could win against Vader, though I'm not sure it'll be the stomp most people seem to think. Most of it depends on how far the targets start off against each other, or course, and if they've had their weapons activated. Vader is no slouch in the sword-fighting department. Even though Sith are trained to fight aggressively, he'd probably notice the advantage MC has in the physical department and go on the defensive.

Then, another scenario would be were Vader spots MC from afar, and crushes his chest region with the force.

The Vader vs. MC fight really depends on a number of variables.

As for the Stormtroopers vs. The ODSTs...I honestly have no idea.

EDIT: And please quit talking about "Spartan Time" as if it were an actual power that John has.

September 12, 2010

We don't see his hands during that choke... And the way he was siting suggested that his hands were already pointing at the Admiral, and although resting he only needed to motion with a hand, rather than the whole arm...

We don't see his hands at all, so it's odd to assume he is doing anything. Later on, in the same movie, he starts throwing shit at Luke while his hands are still on his lightsaber. It's pretty obvious that he can use his powers without moving his hands around when necessary.

EDIT: And please quit talking about "Spartan Time" as if it were an actual power that John has.

The name they chose for that is all that bugs me. Spartan Time. With time capitalized... why not just say heightened reflexes?

September 12, 2010

The name they chose for that is all that bugs me. Spartan Time. With time capitalized... why not just say heightened reflexes?

Exactly...albeit impressive reflexes.

Skirmisher · September 12, 2010

I'm thinking the MC could win against Vader, though I'm not sure it'll be the stomp most people seem to think. Most of it depends on how far the targets start off against each other, or course, and if they've had their weapons activated. Vader is no slouch in the sword-fighting department. Even though Sith are trained to fight aggressively, he'd probably notice the advantage MC has in the physical department and go on the defensive.

Then, another scenario would be were Vader spots MC from afar, and crushes his chest region with the force.

The Vader vs. MC fight really depends on a number of variables.

Johns Maximum Speed has been shown (In Mk6 armour) to be 105kph.

Acceleration takes place within the first 30m of running, after that the runner has reached his/her maximum velocity. Thus it would take the Chief 30m to go from 0 - 105kph. Which means that he is roughly accelerating at 30m/s. If Vader and John were to engage at 10m which is unusually long range for a Sword Fight, then the Chief could theoretically be up in Vaders Face in 0.333 seconds. At a more reasonable distance of 5m it would only take him 0.166 seconds to bridge the gap between them.

I don't actually see Vader being able to defend himself against the Chiefs attacks, as after the Chief could probably fight as strong and as fast as Mace Windu in the Clone Wars Animated Cartoon... If you gave him a Plasma Sword at those speed, then Vader doesn't stand a chance...

EDIT: And please quit talking about "Spartan Time" as if it were an actual power that John has.

Please don't tell me that Marvel has a Power called "Spartan Time"... because although it's not a Mystic/Mutant/Meta "Power" that you'd find in comic books, it is well supported within the Novels. Go Check out my Spartan/Sangheili Respect thread.

They coined the term within the story, describing their extremely heightened perception of time and their ability to keep up with it.

We don't see his hands at all, so it's odd to assume he is doing anything. Later on, in the same movie, he starts throwing shit at Luke while his hands are still on his lightsaber. It's pretty obvious that he can use his powers without moving his hands around when necessary.

That Scene

He directs the Telekinesis with his Saber, as well as leaving himself open to attack in certain throws. If Luke hadn't been so easily pushed back by random junk thrown at him or had been a more skilled fighter then Vader wouldn't have used those attacks.

I also see a Spartan as being worth 20 of those Soldiers.

Side Note: This I think is the Video Canon record of what a Thermal Detonator looks like and sounds like when it goes off, and what can clearly be seen from it's detonation is that it is more of a High Energy Explosion rather than a miniature nuclear fireball that incinerates everything in it's blast radius...

Though as for right now, it's a Game Trailer, and we know how much they can change from debut to release *cough* Force Unleashed *cough*

The name they chose for that is all that bugs me. Spartan Time. With time capitalized... why not just say heightened reflexes?

Because there is a difference. It's not just their Reflexes but the Whole mixture of abilities that fold into one...

They have a Slowed Perception of time.

They have Heightened Reflexes

They have Incredible Speed

"Spartan Time" is like the spot on the Tier System Between Merely Hightened Reflexes and Matrix Level Bullet Timers... If a Spartan were to be able to See Bullets then I am sure that they could dodge gunfire After it has left the Barrel. As it stands a Spartan would wtfpwn in Star Wars due to the fact that Blaster Bolts move Much slower than Conventional Firearms, AND they're Extremely Bright Projectiles

September 12, 2010

Johns Maximum Speed has been shown (In Mk6 armour) to be 105kph.

Acceleration takes place within the first 30m of running, after that the runner has reached his/her maximum velocity. Thus it would take the Chief 30m to go from 0 - 105kph. Which means that he is roughly accelerating at 30m/s. If Vader and John were to engage at 10m which is unusually long range for a Sword Fight, then the Chief could theoretically be up in Vaders Face in 0.333 seconds. At a more reasonable distance of 5m it would only take him 0.166 seconds to bridge the gap between them.

I don't actually see Vader being able to defend himself against the Chiefs attacks, as after the Chief could probably fight as strong and as fast as Mace Windu in the Clone Wars Animated Cartoon... If you gave him a Plasma Sword at those speed, then Vader doesn't stand a chance...

By "afar" I meant, "Hey, look at that seven foot tall Armored guy from across the battlefield!"

Also, this situation could be used interchangeably, since both Vader and MC are viable leaders for their squadrons of soldiers, and we have no idea how they meet each other for said sword fight.

Please don't tell me that Marvel has a Power called "Spartan Time"... because although it's not a Mystic/Mutant/Meta "Power" that you'd find in comic books, it is well supported within the Novels. Go Check out my Spartan/Sangheili Respect thread.

They coined the term within the story, describing their extremely heightened perception of time and their ability to keep up with it.

Because there is a difference. It's not just their Reflexes but the Whole mixture of abilities that fold into one...

They have a Slowed Perception of time.
They have Heightened Reflexes
They have Incredible Speed

"Spartan Time" is like the spot on the Tier System Between Merely Hightened Reflexes and Matrix Level Bullet Timers... If a Spartan were to be able to See Bullets then I am sure that they could dodge gunfire After it has left the Barrel. As it stands a Spartan would wtfpwn in Star Wars due to the fact that Blaster Bolts move Much slower than Conventional Firearms, AND they're Extremely Bright Projectiles

Or...you could just call it "Heightened Reflexes" and the end result would still be the same.

Also, relax. I wasn't trying to insult The MC...

EDIT: And no, Marvel doesn't have a power called "Spartan Time," if that makes you feel any better...

September 12, 2010

That Scene

He directs the Telekinesis with his Saber, as well as leaving himself open to attack in certain throws. If Luke hadn't been so easily pushed back by random junk thrown at him or had been a more skilled fighter then Vader wouldn't have used those attacks.

I also see a Spartan as being worth 20 of those Soldiers.

2:24

He doesn't direct all of the attacks though. He simply looks at the first one (the large pipe looking thing that Luke slices mid-flight, and at 2:44 he's in a lock with Luke and still sends a box hiting him in the head. At 2:51 he lowers his saber and begins unfastening the other pipe thing behind him, but at the same time (2:52 another box hits Luke from behind and again at 2:54) and at 2:56 we still see his saber lowered.

Side Note: This I think is the Video Canon record of what a Thermal Detonator looks like and sounds like when it goes off, and what can clearly be seen from it's detonation is that it is more of a High Energy Explosion rather than a miniature nuclear fireball that incinerates everything in it's blast radius...

Irrelevant to discussion, as that game takes place 3,500+ years before the movies, and one instance of a thermal detonator doesn't equal all thermal detonators. Also again, what's with this slow bullet shit? You did, AFAIK, ONE example of a slow moving bullet, and then declared that all of them move slow? In the Battle of Geonosis the rounds were covering the 10km distance in fractions of seconds.

Skirmisher · September 12, 2010

2:24

He doesn't direct all of the attacks though. He simply looks at the first one (the large pipe looking thing that Luke slices mid-flight, and at 2:44 he's in a lock with Luke and still sends a box hiting him in the head. At 2:51 he lowers his saber and begins unfastening the other pipe thing behind him, but at the same time (2:52 another box hits Luke from behind and again at 2:54) and at 2:56 we still see his saber lowered.

There was only ONE thing he didn't throw with hand gesture, although they had locked their blades. This would give Vader enough time to concentrate for that One Second he would need to set the object on course. Except in a Battle with the Chief, he would get No Quarter, No Free time... In fact I doubt Vader would Ever get the chance to use his Force abilities in the face of the onslaught that the Chief could unleash on him... and that's assuming that Vader Could in fact move fast enough to block any of the Chiefs attacks.

Also again, what's with this slow bullet shit? You did, AFAIK, ONE example of a slow moving bullet, and then declared that all of them move slow? In the Battle of Geonosis the rounds were covering the 10km distance in fractions of seconds.

No, IIRC I said that at Average Power Settings with an Average Blaster Rifle their bolts move fairly slow.

The Battle of Geonosis perhaps equipped their Clones with enough ammo to fire for long periods of time at their Maximum Power settings (Normally only 10 shots which is why they don't use it that often) As well, they were using Long Rifles, which are Much more powerful than standard Blasters used by Stormtroopers.

Also I doubt that they were fighting at 10Km... Show Proof that they were that far away before Blindly using Wookieepedias Maximum Range for any blaster and substituting it into your theories.... I am guesstimating that they were only about a km away from each other at the battle of Geonosis.

Basically the More power the Blaster has the Faster the Blaster Bolt goes, Except I am guessing that SOP for Stormtroopers was to Dial their Blasters down to an Ammo Conservation mode. As such getting only 50x more shots than at Maximum Power. It also seems that the Blaster Bold Speed is Exponentially increased with higher power, as bolts can go from 40m/s at average setting to who knows.

So that basically means that In pretty much Any situation Conventional Modern Firearms beats Blasters at Speed Easily. But High Powered Blasters at their Maximum Setting beat the Best Conventional Modern Firearms...

Edit: Wait, got it right here... Ruinus don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining... because that Distance WAS NOT 10 KILOMETERS... I would guess that it's more like a couple hundred meters at best...

So that would mean that in said fraction of a second their bolts were traveling a few hundred meters, putting their Best Rifles at par with or under Modern Conventional Rifles... I also guess that they may have actually dialed their blasters up to Max setting to get that far, as well as do damage to the many Vehicles that were present within the enemy lines....

September 13, 2010

There was only ONE thing he didn't throw with hand gesture, although they had locked their blades. This would give Vader enough time to concentrate for that One Second he would need to set the object on course. Except in a Battle with the Chief, he would get No Quarter, No Free time... In fact I doubt Vader would Ever get the chance to use his Force abilities in the face of the onslaught that the Chief could unleash on him... and that's assuming that Vader Could in fact move fast enough to block any of the Chiefs attacks.

Bullshit. Again he has locked blades with Luke he throws on at his head, and later on when he lowers his blade the throws 2 things at him without moving his hands.

Also again, I like how you assume that MC has all the intel required on Vader to know to attack as fast as possible, and yet Vader doesn't have the same intel.

Edit: Wait, got it right here... Ruinus don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining... because that Distance WAS NOT 10 KILOMETERS... I would guess that it's more like a couple hundred meters at best...

So that would mean that in said fraction of a second their bolts were traveling a few hundred meters, putting their Best Rifles at par with or under Modern Conventional Rifles... I also guess that they may have actually dialed their blasters up to Max setting to get that far, as well as do damage to the many Vehicles that were present within the enemy lines....

Oh woops, it looks like you don't know what perspective is. Even better, considering that your image occurs before this, there aren't any battle droids at the feet of the Spider Droids yet. At 6:16 you can see a Battledroid in relation to the Spider Droidand it is WAY smaller than your image scaling.

They were farther away than you think. Also, again, no reason to assume they dailed up their shots, or that the DC-15s are their best weapons.

Even going by your firgure of a few hundred meters (100) those bolts aren't taking an entire second to cross the distance. If they are crossing it in .1 seconds, then that is km/s speeds.

Skirmisher · September 13, 2010

Bullshit. Again he has locked blades with Luke he throws on at his head, and later on when he lowers his blade the throws 2 things at him without moving his hands.

Also again, I like how you assume that MC has all the intel required on Vader to know to attack as fast as possible, and yet Vader doesn't have the same intel.

1) He was Locking Blades with Luke for a full second, for a trained swordsman that is a Long Time, and plenty enough to see that Luke is fairly inexperienced with the Saber and that would be a perfect time to concentrate on other things.

2) I'm not giving the Chief ANY info. He sees a threat and he neutralizes it with extreme prejudice. Simple as that, it's not my fault that the Chief isn't affected by CIS like Jedi and Sith in general....

Why would the Chief allow his enemy to react? That's not in his character, and as such he would Blitz Vader As Fast, and As Soon as possible barring outside threats that he acknowledges.

Oh woops, it looks like you don't know what perspective is. Even better, considering that your image occurs before this, there aren't any battle droids at the feet of the Spider Droids yet. At 6:16 you can see a Battledroid in relation to the Spider Droidand it is WAY smaller than your image scaling.

They were farther away than you think. Also, again, no reason to assume they dailed up their shots, or that the DC-15s are their best weapons.

Meh, even so the distance is not that extreme, certainly not the 10km that you tried to pull on everyone...

Still, even if it were 500m those bolts took around 10 frames on average to cross the distance, which would put the time frame at 0.8 seconds* for a speed of 600m/s.

* Despite movie cameras frame rates moving at "24 frames per second" there are multiple frames that show no moment, and are only included to trick the eye. As such rather than 1 unique frame being 0.042 seconds in length the real number is more likely around 0.08 seconds per unique frame, if not more.

September 13, 2010

1) He was Locking Blades with Luke for a full second, for a trained swordsman that is a Long Time, and plenty enough to see that Luke is fairly inexperienced with the Saber and that would be a perfect time to concentrate on other things.

2) I'm not giving the Chief ANY info. He sees a threat and he neutralizes it with extreme prejudice. Simple as that, it's not my fault that the Chief isn't affected by CIS like Jedi and Sith in general....

Why would the Chief allow his enemy to react? That's not in his character, and as such he would Blitz Vader As Fast, and As Soon as possible barring outside threats that he acknowledges.

And that has what to do with the fact that he threw 3 things at him with no hand gestures?

Your scenario in the first page has MC already attacking Vaders hand (which as far as he knows does nothing) for no other reason than because you know what Vader can do with the Force. MC knows nothing of this, and as such wouldn't know to attack his hand until after Vader has Force Pushed him, or choked him.

Meh, even so the distance is not that extreme, certainly not the 10km that you tried to pull on everyone...

Still, even if it were 500m those bolts took around 10 frames on average to cross the distance, which would put the time frame at 0.8 seconds* for a speed of 600m/s.

*Despite movie cameras frame rates moving at "24 frames per second" there are multiple frames that show no moment, and are only included to trick the eye. As such rather than 1 unique frame being 0.042 seconds in length the real number is more likely around 0.08 seconds per unique frame.

Actually, since the bullets can reach farther back to the ships (which are 600+ meters in diameter) then yes, the bullets could be going farther. (Not 10km of course, but further than your initial 100 meters).

Also, source for that frame thing?

Skirmisher · September 13, 2010

And that has what to do with the fact that he threw 3 things at him with no hand gestures?

Wrong, only one object was thrown without hand gestures and that was when Vader and Luke were in the Blade Lock.

The other times that you are referring to Vader still motioned with his lightsaber to throw the objects.

This would indicate that if a Jedi/Sith has free time and feels safe in letting themselves become open to attack they can move objects without the need of their hands.

Your scenario in the first page has MC already attacking Vaders hand (which as far as he knows does nothing) for no other reason than because you know what Vader can do with the Force. MC knows nothing of this, and as such wouldn't know to attack his hand until after Vader has Force Pushed him, or choked him.

My First Scenario had the Chief attack his hand, because by then I expected his hand to be outstretched towards the Chief, milliseconds away from doing a Force Technique. A vulnerable hand is a good enough target to attack and it would significantly reduce his targets ability to counter him. The Chief wouldn't have targeted it because he Knew that Vader needs it to use the Force, he would have Targeted it because the Idiot stuck it out in front of his sword....

As for this supposed flow of information that you are trying to pin on me... what makes Vader know instinctively that he would have to Not use his hands to call the force, and even then if you say Precognition he would still take just as long if not longer to use the Force without a hand gesture...

Actually, since the bullets can reach farther back to the ships (which are 600+ meters in diameter) then yes, the bullets could be going farther. (Not 10km of course, but further than your initial 100 meters).

Also, source for that frame thing?

Whenever I pull video and dissect it with my film equipment, it shows me Exactly how much time is actually passing between shots. As well, I usually have to skip though many, many Cloned Frames to gather the Unique Frames for Actual Use...

As for the distance to the Globe Ships... Irrelevant as the time it takes the shots to travel between their lines is supposedly "10 Frames" taken from amateur film dissectors who got their numbers on a VCR or "Frame by Frame" on their DVD's.

Edit: I already gave them 500m for that analysis, which is Extremely Gracious... and it still only give them a speed of 600m/s...

September 13, 2010

Wrong, only one object was thrown without hand gestures and that was when Vader and Luke were in the Blade Lock.

The other times that you are referring to Vader still motioned with his lightsaber to throw the objects.

This would indicate that if a Jedi/Sith has free time and feels safe in letting themselves become open to attack they can move objects without the need of their hands.

Jesus *vulgarity*.

Start at 3:36

Vader lowers his saber.

At the same time a box hits Luke's back.

Another box hits him as he turns around.

The initial object behind Vader finally moves, Vader's hands are still in the same position as the first image.

My First Scenario had the Chief attack his hand, because by then I expected his hand to be outstretched towards the Chief, milliseconds away from doing a Force Technique. A vulnerable hand is a good enough target to attack and it would significantly reduce his targets ability to counter him. The Chief wouldn't have targeted it because he Knew that Vader needs it to use the Force, he would have Targeted it because the Idiot stuck it out in front of his sword....

As for this supposed flow of information that you are trying to pin on me... what makes Vader know instinctively that he would have to Not use his hands to call the force, and even then if you say Precognition he would still take just as long if not longer to use the Force without a hand gesture...

And as such, the scenario is wrong, as Vader doesn't need to use his hands to move things or choke people.

Again, jesus *vulgarity*. Show how MC is fater than Vader's thoughts, which are going to be influence by his precognition.

Whenever I pull video and dissect it with my film equipment, it shows me Exactly how much time is actually passing between shots. As well, I usually have to skip though many, many Cloned Frames to gather the Unique Frames for Actual Use...

As for the distance to the Globe Ships... Irrelevant as the time it takes the shots to travel between their lines is supposedly "10 Frames" taken from amateur film dissectors who got their numbers on a VCR or "Frame by Frame" on their DVD's.

If you've got the better equipment then show how many frames it takes according to your equipment.

Skirmisher · September 13, 2010

The initial object behind Vader finally moves, Vader's hands are still in the same position as the first image.

Ok, and Becasue he's now Free to not use his hands as he doesn't have to worry about getting cut down by the guy who's falling back from getting things thrown at him... So Your Whole Point is Moot.

And as such, the scenario is wrong, as Vader doesn't need to use his hands to move things or choke people.

Again, jesus *vulgarity*. Show how MC is fater than Vader's thoughts, which are going to be influence by his precognition.

Because despite having Precognition, Vader as well as Any other Force User still reacts as fast as any other Human.

Normal Human Reaction Time = 0.200 Seconds

Trained Human Reaction Time = 0.150 Seconds Max

Spartan Human Reaction Time = 0.020 Seconds Base

That's How the Chief wtfpwns Vader before he can Choke or Push him.

If you've got the better equipment then show how many frames it takes according to your equipment.

It takes awhile... I'm still working on your Anakin hitting Speeder Analysis...

September 13, 2010

Ok, and Becasue he's now Free to not use his hands as he doesn't have to worry about getting cut down by the guy who's falling back from getting things thrown at him... So Your Whole Point is Moot.

No, the whole point was:

Vader, as per Ep V, doesn't need hand movements to choke people. He killed Admiral Ozzel without any hand gestures over a viewscreen.

We don't see his hands at all, so it's odd to assume he is doing anything. Later on, in the same movie, he starts throwing shit at Luke while his hands are still on his lightsaber. It's pretty obvious that he can use his powers without moving his hands around when necessary.

Because despite having Precognition, Vader as well as Any other Force User still reacts as fast as any other Human.

Normal Human Reaction Time = 0.200 Seconds
Trained Human Reaction Time = 0.150 Seconds Max
Spartan Human Reaction Time = 0.020 Seconds Base

That's How the Chief wtfpwns Vader before he can Choke or Push him.

Action at 0 seconds.

Spartan reacts in .020 seconds

A trained human reacts .13 seconds later.

You are assuming that Vader sees the action at 0 second and reacts .150 seconds later, .13 seconds after MC.

However, Vader with pre-cog (even if he sees the action 1 second before it occurs), sees the action at -1 seconds. Even if Vader's reactions are at trained human levels of .150 seconds, then its actually.

Vader sees action occur at -1 seconds.

Vader reacts at -.85 seconds.

Action at 0 seconds.

Spartan reacts in .020 seconds

A trained human reacts .13 seconds later.

Even if Vader sees the action at -.5 seconds then it's still the same thing.

Vader sees action occur at -.5 seconds.

Vader reacts at -.35 seconds.

Action at 0 seconds.

Spartan reacts in .020 seconds

A trained human reacts .13 seconds later.

Vader is only slow if he sees the action (via precog) if he gets a -.1 second warning.

Skirmisher · September 13, 2010

Action at 0 seconds.
Spartan reacts in .020 seconds
A trained human reacts .13 seconds later.

You are assuming that Vader sees the action at 0 second and reacts .150 seconds later, .13 seconds after MC.

However, Vader with pre-cog (even if he sees the action 1 second before it occurs), sees the action at -1 seconds. Even if Vader's reactions are at trained human levels of .150 seconds, then its actually.

Vader sees action occur at -1 seconds.
Vader reacts at -.85 seconds.
Action at 0 seconds.
Spartan reacts in .020 seconds
A trained human reacts .13 seconds later.

Even if Vader sees the action at -.5 seconds then it's still the same thing.

Vader sees action occur at -.5 seconds.
Vader reacts at -.35 seconds.
Action at 0 seconds.
Spartan reacts in .020 seconds
A trained human reacts .13 seconds later.

Vader is only slow if he sees the action (via precog) if he gets a -.1 second warning.

Flawed use of Logic there...

The Moment that Vader does anything the Chief would react to it within 0.020 seconds. Vader then has to take his 0.150 seconds to react to what the Chief has done, such as close the gap between them and strike.

As by the calc of 7 punches per second at peek human and the fact that Pre-Augmentation Spartans were Peek Human, now being 10 times faster would mean that the Chief could land an attack in 1/70th of a second.

As well, you yourself have stated elsewhere that their Precognition does NOT actually give them a Clear understanding of what is going to happen in the Exact, just "Danger, move this way"... His mind would be screaming at him to gtfo so much that he wouldn't have the frame of mind to Force Grip the Chief.

So...

-1.000 seconds ~ Vader knows that the Chief is an extreme threat, and raises his lightsaber unaware of how powerful his foe really is...

-0.080 seconds ~ the Chief reacts to Vaders stance change and Rushes in.

-0.050 seconds ~ the Chief has cleared the small gape between him and Vader and attacks

-0.035 seconds ~ the Chief lands the first blow against Vader

-0.020 seconds ~ the Chief lands the Second blow against Vader

-0.005 seconds ~ the Chief lands the Third Blow against Vader

0.010 seconds ~ the Chief lands the Forth Blow against Vader

0.025 seconds ~ the Chief lands the Fifth Blow against Vader

0.040 seconds ~ the Chief lands the Sixth Blow against Vader

0.055 seconds ~ the Chief lands the Seventh Blow against Vader

Vader is now neatly Dead in a handful of pieces... Dead... gone and rotting.... more than he already was...

Edit: Even if you want to say that Vader Doesn't try to defend himself with the Saber (his main weapon) and goes Immediately for the Choke....

-1.000 seconds ~ Vader knows that the Chief is an extreme threat, and without moving his hands or anything starts to choke him

-0.080 seconds ~ the Chief reacts Feels his windpipe closing, and reacts instinctively towards the nearest threat