Master Chief vs Darth Vader

[Guest American Dragon]

A battle in space on a distance planet. 2 scenarios.

 

1. Darth Vader has his light saber and Master Chief is using an Energy Sword in a 1 on 1 fight.

2. Master Chief has help from the ODSTs and Vader gets help from the Storm Troopers in an army fight.

 

Who would win.

[Guest Dreadlock]

I think the ODSTs would beat the Storm Troopers simply because the Storm Troopers can never seem to hit sh*t with their blasters. But I think Darth Vader would absolutely ra-pe Master Chief.

[Skirmisher]

A battle in space on a distance planet. 2 scenarios.

 

1. Darth Vader has his light saber and Master Chief is using an Energy Sword in a 1 on 1 fight.

2. Master Chief has help from the ODSTs and Vader gets help from the Storm Troopers in an army fight.

 

Who would win.

Scenario One all numbers are in minute:second:millisecond format

0:00:00 ~ Battle starts, Vader and Chief ignite their weapons

0:00:02 ~ John starts to move across the gap between him and Vader.

0:00:10 ~ John is within just a few meters of Vader, to the Spartan the Sith has barely moved.

0:00:15 ~ John swings in with his Sword in a blur of motion, just as Vaders hand starts to point at him.

0:00:20 ~ John cuts off Vaders hand moments before the Sith attempts to Force Choke him.

0:00:22 ~ The Spartan reverses the direction of his upward cut and slashes down across Vaders body.

0:00:26 ~ Vaders sword arm come clean off and he has a deep burning wound across his chest.

0:00:30 ~ John swings again at the now helpless sith, and decapitated him.

0:00:40 ~ Vader doesn't understand what just happened.

0:00:50 ~ John starts to walk away... and starts to relax.

0:01:69 ~ Vaders headless corpse falls to the ground, his head rolls to face the spartan.

0:02:16 ~ The Spartan calls for a Pelican to come pick him up.

0:05:47 ~ Command radios back that they're sending a Pelican to pick him up.

0:13:29 ~ Vader stares at the man who killed him as his last second of life fades.

1:58:33 ~ John hides the body somewhere, probably chucking it unceremoniously into the bushes.

2:45:92 ~ Pelican radios the Chief, indicating that it's close, and will be another couple minutes.

5:25:68 ~ Pelican comes in for a VTOL landing.

6:01:36 ~ Pelican lands and opens back ramp, the Chief jumps on board.

8:00:29 ~ John flies off into the sunset...

 

 

Scenario Two can't give time estimates here unfortunately... so lets go Deadliest Warrior on their troops...

 

Storm Trooper

Main Weapon

E11 Blaster Rifle, IIRC somewhere it was calced that Blasters at an Average setting have an amount of Joules roughly equal to a high powered rifle. Which would make them One hit One kill weapons for hitting any vital area, and significant wounding for anywhere else. Even though Stormtrooper Aim was fairly good, their weapons were oft plagued by targeting errors.

 

Secondary Weapon

SE-14r Light Imperial repeating pistol. As a smaller lighter weapon it shouldn't have the same punch as the Troopers Larger Rifle. Though it there was a lucky shot then I would guess the pistol could kill in the first hit. This like the Rifle may have also had faulty targeting equipment...

 

 

 

 

Armour

They wore a form fitting Plastoid shell with an insulating and fragmentation resistant body glove. Normally this Body armour was only really good at resisting Primitive projectile weapons, as well as saving troopers from Glancing hits from Blasters strong enough to kill them. However if Ballistic Projectiles were of sufficient size or were Armour Piercing in nature they would sail through the armour like it were nothing But Plastic.

 

Grenade

Baradium Core Thermal Detonator. Though these were powerful grenades, they were designed not to be lobbed or thrown, but rather placed against targets such as walls or doors. And though powerful their range was only out to 5m, although this was it's kill radius, it did not have a casualty radius. This would no doubt incinerate anyone who was caught in it's blast radius, but then again it would have to be set up and put on a timer.

 

 

ODST

Main Weapon

M7S Submachine Gun, unfortunately for the ODST this weapon doesn't have oversized rounds (quite the opposite), and although it's bullets are FMJ, does not have any special Armour Piercing qualities... Though they can spam their targets to death eventually, they might as well be facing off against Jackals with their shields up...

 

Secondary Weapon

M6C/SOCOM, truly this is the weapon that will win it for the ODST's. The M6C offers an Oversized round that does have Armour Piercing qualities. As well, the rounds are designed to Penetrate Armour, but not Exit the target, which could mean that the round was designed to Tumble within the target causing Massive Cavitation. With this weapon it would be as if the Stormtroopers were not even wearing any armour. Not only that but this was a Very Accurate weapon, capable of accurately hitting targets at long range for pistols at 40m to 50m, and as high as 115m.

 

Armour

ODST Body Armour is designed to resist both Kinetic and Thermal Weaponry. By combining Ballistics grade Ceramic materials with the Super Hard Titanium-A metal (it is classed as a superalloy) as well as a Kevlar body glove, and environmental sealing. I am sure that their armour could take a direct hit from a Blaster at average strength, much like Modern Ceramic inserts can take High Powered Rifle rounds and protect from the first hit.

 

Grenade

Just like standard Fragmentation Grenades today the "Frag" has a casualty radius of 15 meters, with a fatality radius of 5 meters. Though due to the qualities of their opponents armour I would assume that these ranges would be significantly reduced (by 75% maybe) leading instead to a theoretical casualty radius of 3.75 meters, with a fatality radius of 1.25 meters against Stormtroopers. However the advantage the ODST has over the Stormtrooper is that they can carry more (3 frag vs 1 TD) as well as Throw their grenades.

 

 

Comparison

Main Weapons goes to the Stormtrooper

Secondary Weapons goes to the ODST

Armour goes to the ODST

Grenades goes to the ODST

 

All in all if an ODST were to re-equip their main weapon with something heavier, like the Assault Rifle, then they would also win the Main Weapon category. But aw it stands, they would win ~700 out of 1000 battles. Meaning that they are much more likely to support the Chief with he tackles Vader.

 

 

That said... Modern Rifles pwn Jedi/Sith... Also, SMG pwns Jedi/Sith... 15 rounds per second, at Velocities of 1100+ meters per second... this puts Blasters and their 40 to 200 meters per second, Semi-Auto Rate of Fire to utter shame... As well, most Force Users are rather cocky about their ability to block projectiles and as such wear little armour (Vader not included)

[Guest force_echo]

Scenario One all numbers are in minute:second:millisecond format

0:00:00 ~ Battle starts, Vader and Chief ignite their weapons

0:00:02 ~ John starts to move across the gap between him and Vader.

0:00:10 ~ John is within just a few meters of Vader, to the Spartan the Sith has barely moved.

0:00:15 ~ John swings in with his Sword in a blur of motion, just as Vaders hand starts to point at him.

0:00:20 ~ John cuts off Vaders hand moments before the Sith attempts to Force Choke him.

0:00:22 ~ The Spartan reverses the direction of his upward cut and slashes down across Vaders body.

0:00:26 ~ Vaders sword arm come clean off and he has a deep burning wound across his chest.

0:00:30 ~ John swings again at the now helpless sith, and decapitated him.

0:00:40 ~ Vader doesn't understand what just happened.

0:00:50 ~ John starts to walk away... and starts to relax.

0:01:69 ~ Vaders headless corpse falls to the ground, his head rolls to face the spartan.

0:02:16 ~ The Spartan calls for a Pelican to come pick him up.

0:05:47 ~ Command radios back that they're sending a Pelican to pick him up.

0:13:29 ~ Vader stares at the man who killed him as his last second of life fades.

1:58:33 ~ John hides the body somewhere, probably chucking it unceremoniously into the bushes.

2:45:92 ~ Pelican radios the Chief, indicating that it's close, and will be another couple minutes.

5:25:68 ~ Pelican comes in for a VTOL landing.

6:01:36 ~ Pelican lands and opens back ramp, the Chief jumps on board.

8:00:29 ~ John flies off into the sunset...

Wtf? Are you crazy? Jedis have extremly enhanced reflexes, I see Vader Completly anal r@ping Master Chief. Also if youre gonna have ODSTs instead of regular Marines, then I suggest you use Imp. Commandos instead of regular Stormtroopers.

[Guest force_echo]

Damn, double post.

[Indolent]

Wtf? Are you crazy? Jedis have extremly enhanced reflexes, I see Vader Completly anal r@ping Master Chief. Also if youre gonna have ODSTs instead of regular Marines, then I suggest you use Imp. Commandos instead of regular Stormtroopers.

Spartan Time ftw. -.-

[Guest force_echo]

Spartan Time ftw. -.-

What is Spartan Time?

[Indolent]

What is Spartan Time?

I'll let Skirmisher explain this...

 

Not good at explaining this. Sorry.

[Guest thetrekker]

I'll let Skirmisher explain this...

 

Not good at explaining this. Sorry.

Oh boy. this'll be good. Force, have you ever heard of the spartan laser? Yah, this'll be good.

[Guest force_echo]

Oh boy. this'll be good. Force, have you ever heard of the spartan laser? Yah, this'll be good.

OFC, Ive played the games.

[Indolent]

Splaser = Light Speed Laser. Well, close to Lightspeed as it can only go Lightspeed in a vaccum but nonetheless... and its able to punch through meters of Titanium A, which is a far superior alloy to that like of titanium. Pretty useful weapon.

 

Besides that...

 

Spartan Time is... where the Spartan perceive the world as moving at a crawl. They have reflexes that match this, allowing them to move while the world's a blur to them, which in turn allows them to move as a blur in ones' eyes as their speed is greatly enhanced in addition to their reflexes. Their thought process is also enhanced. -.- Meaning, they can move before you do and they can get to you before you're even able to make a move, just as you're slightly beginning to move. This is why Skirmisher posts that first scenario.

 

Kay, I tried. -.-

[Guest force_echo]

Splaser = Light Speed Laser. Well, close to Lightspeed as it can only go Lightspeed in a vaccum but nonetheless... and its able to punch through meters of Titanium A, which is a far superior alloy to that like of titanium. Pretty useful weapon.

 

Besides that...

 

Spartan Time is... where the Spartan perceive the world as moving at a crawl. They have reflexes that match this, allowing them to move while the world's a blur to them, which in turn allows them to move as a blur in ones' eyes as their speed is greatly enhanced in addition to their reflexes. Their thought process is also enhanced. -.- Meaning, they can move before you do and they can get to you before you're even able to make a move, just as you're slightly beginning to move. This is why Skirmisher posts that first scenario.

 

Kay, I tried. -.-

Yeah I get it, you explained pretty well, but Vader has one of the fastest reflexes in SW, even with that bulky armor, as evidence of his killing of many Jedi Knights/Masters. Im pretty sure he would be able to react pretty quickly in leui of Master Chief's assault. Plus hes more skilled at lightsaber than MC is at energy sword. Granted, MC is much stronger than Vader, but Vader has access to ranged attacks like force push, Saber throw, lightning, etc. Plus, blaster bolts are energized plasma volts, they go around 2,200 kilometers per second, its just movie mechanics that they seem to go so slow, how exciting would a firefight be if you could barely see the bolts?

[Indolent]

Yeah I get it, you explained pretty well, but Vader has one of the fastest reflexes in SW, even with that bulky armor, as evidence of his killing of many Jedi Knights/Masters. Im pretty sure he would be able to react pretty quickly in leui of Master Chief's assault. Plus hes more skilled at lightsaber than MC is at energy sword. Granted, MC is much stronger than Vader, but Vader has access to ranged attacks like force push, Saber throw, lightning, etc.

He still has to trigger the same thought at the same speed in order to be able to do anything. Spartan Time slows this down. Its like that 2 or .2 (Don't remember which) second delay thing. -.-

[Guest Ruinus]

Scenario One all numbers are in minute:second:millisecond format

0:00:00 ~ Battle starts, Vader and Chief ignite their weapons

0:00:02 ~ John starts to move across the gap between him and Vader.

0:00:10 ~ John is within just a few meters of Vader, to the Spartan the Sith has barely moved.

0:00:15 ~ John swings in with his Sword in a blur of motion, just as Vaders hand starts to point at him.

0:00:20 ~ John cuts off Vaders hand moments before the Sith attempts to Force Choke him.

0:00:22 ~ The Spartan reverses the direction of his upward cut and slashes down across Vaders body.

0:00:26 ~ Vaders sword arm come clean off and he has a deep burning wound across his chest.

0:00:30 ~ John swings again at the now helpless sith, and decapitated him.

0:00:40 ~ Vader doesn't understand what just happened.

0:00:50 ~ John starts to walk away... and starts to relax.

0:01:69 ~ Vaders headless corpse falls to the ground, his head rolls to face the spartan.

0:02:16 ~ The Spartan calls for a Pelican to come pick him up.

0:05:47 ~ Command radios back that they're sending a Pelican to pick him up.

0:13:29 ~ Vader stares at the man who killed him as his last second of life fades.

1:58:33 ~ John hides the body somewhere, probably chucking it unceremoniously into the bushes.

2:45:92 ~ Pelican radios the Chief, indicating that it's close, and will be another couple minutes.

5:25:68 ~ Pelican comes in for a VTOL landing.

6:01:36 ~ Pelican lands and opens back ramp, the Chief jumps on board.

8:00:29 ~ John flies off into the sunset...

 

^Assumes Vader won't see any of this coming. Very odd against an opponent who has no Force ability.

 

Comparison

Main Weapons goes to the Stormtrooper

Secondary Weapons goes to the ODST

Armour goes to the ODST

Grenades goes to the ODST

 

Odd.

 

Why do the grenades go to the ODST? The thermal dets have a range of 5 meters, and by your own guess the radius of the frag is 3.75 with a kill radius of 1.25. Oh wait, you think the thermal dets can't be thrown? Odd, considering that the article says:

 

"but they were designed to be placed manually against hardened targets as petards, rather than lobbed as grenades or mortar rounds^"

 

They can be thrown, but against hardened targets they are placed up against them. The thermal dets are better.

And them you assume the ODST armor is better for some reason. Sure, we'll go with that. Unfortunately the ODST die because their only effective weapon, their pistol, has maxiumum effective range of 30 to 50 meters, and a max range of 60 to 115 meters, while the E-11 has a range of 300 meters. So, by your own argument, the only effective weapon the ODST have require them to be 185 meters inside the range of the enemy weapons.

 

All in all if an ODST were to re-equip their main weapon with something heavier, like the Assault Rifle, then they would also win the Main Weapon category. But aw it stands, they would win ~700 out of 1000 battles. Meaning that they are much more likely to support the Chief with he tackles Vader.

 

Actually, as it stands, Vader holds MC up in the air with a Force Grip (something that he actually does) while some stormtroopers blast him, and the others blast the ODST from outside their own weapons range.

[Skirmisher]

Spartan Time is... where the Spartan perceive the world as moving at a crawl. They have reflexes that match this, allowing them to move while the world's a blur to them, which in turn allows them to move as a blur in ones' eyes as their speed is greatly enhanced in addition to their reflexes. Their thought process is also enhanced. -.- Meaning, they can move before you do and they can get to you before you're even able to make a move, just as you're slightly beginning to move. This is why Skirmisher posts that first scenario.

 

Kay, I tried. -.-

Good enough, a better example is using the car-crash scenario. Because what fuels their Spartan Time is Extreme amounts of Adrenaline which they naturally go into automatically before combat. The Adrenaline Rush they get heightens their perceptions so that the world looks as though someone were playing it in ultra slow motion. Now this has happened to normal people, except normal people 1) can't stay in an Adrenaline Rush for long, and 2) Can't really do jack squat in it because despite their Slow Motion sight, their bodies are still moving in normal time...

 

Spartans don't have these problems... they are capable of staying within an Adrenaline Rush for as long as is required in battle (though I would think that Prolonged intense non-stop battles might be tiring) AND they move as if that was their proper timeframe, moving at an equal level of speed to their enhanced perception of time. As such to anyone watching them while they Spartan Time, it appears as if they are moving in a Blur of Motion.

 

What this means for the fight is this. Vader, although a Force User, has only marginally improved Reflexes and Perception, thanks to his years of training, he Might have the Option of using Force Speed to try and Match the Chiefs Spartan Time, but as it's a a Skill and not a Natural Ability the Chief would automatically have a one up on him...

 

Reaction times

Regular Human ~ 0.200 seconds

Trained Human ~ 0.150 seconds aprx

Spartan Human ~ 0.020 seconds

 

 

^Assumes Vader won't see any of this coming. Very odd against an opponent who has no Force ability.

Clairvoyance is only a Plot Related Skill of Force Users

Precognition in battle only allows the user to anticipate what their opponent will try to do...

 

Which leads (unfortunately) a Naruto Example..... There was this one batle in Naruto between the resident Emo Sasuke and the ADHD supposed protagonist Naruto, at (IIRC the name) the valley of the end? Sasuke had always been able to beat his opponents because his Eye's could tell him everything about his opponents moves before the tried their moves, like force battle precognition. He could anticipate his opponents and seemingly out speed them and then beat them... Then Naruto fights him and gets his Obligatory ShÅnen Power Boost with his Fox Cloak, which Amps up his speed to insane levels... Although Sasuke can anticipate what Naruto will do, he cannot keep up with the insane speed, and himself gets his ass handed to him until he uses his Obligatory ShÅnen Power Boost to even the fight up... However they were not really fighting to the death, and were just kids really... Here we have to hardened killers who want to kill with the first or second hit.

 

Which is why the Chief wins...

 

 

Odd.

 

Why do the grenades go to the ODST? The thermal dets have a range of 5 meters, and by your own guess the radius of the frag is 3.75 with a kill radius of 1.25. Oh wait, you think the thermal dets can't be thrown? Odd, considering that the article says:

 

"but they were designed to be placed manually against hardened targets as petards, rather than lobbed as grenades or mortar rounds"

 

They can be thrown, but against hardened targets they are placed up against them. The thermal dets are better.

Ok, basically I gave Grenades to the ODST's because although they are less deadly 1) they have more ammo, and 2) are actually designed to be used as a throwing weapon.

 

Sure you can chuck a Thermal Detonator, but who knows why they wanted it as a Petard instead of a lobbed grenade... if could be that in throwing it, it screws up the mechanism and has a higher chance of becoming a dud due to impact. As well, a cylinder isn't the best object to bounce around corners and such. and Lastly the Colour of them... Rarely are you going to be in a situation where your surroundings are 100% white, meaning that they will see said grenade flying and any Marine worth their salt would dive away from it, and chances are they're going to see it As it's thrown AND see it sailing at them. Which would give them enough time to gtfo of the way or even shoot it out of the air (you can do it in halo)...

 

And besides a 3.75m casualty radius can still kill if those Troopers aren't tended to, and with the mentality of the Stormtrooper Corp, that Casualty Radius would be an out right kill, as the trooper bleeds out...

 

So comparison

Kill Radius

Frag ~ 3.75m

ThDe ~ 5m

Winner ~ ThDe

 

Ammo

Frag ~ 3

ThDe ~ 1

Winner ~ Frag

 

Throw

Frag ~ Yes, and bounce into hard spots

ThDe ~ Not supposed to but can

Winner ~ Frag

 

Camo

Frag ~ Matt Dark Olive

ThDe ~ Bright and Shiny White

Winner ~ Frag

 

3 out a 4 means a win to the Fragmentation Grenade.

 

 

And them you assume the ODST armor is better for some reason. Sure, we'll go with that. Unfortunately the ODST die because their only effective weapon, their pistol, has maxiumum effective range of 30 to 50 meters, and a max range of 60 to 115 meters, while the E-11 has a range of 300 meters. So, by your own argument, the only effective weapon the ODST have require them to be 185 meters inside the range of the enemy weapons.

Except that ODST's do not engage in Long Distance Firefights across open terrain. Sure Blasters have better ranges than the ODST's weapons, but that just means that the ODST's would take the fight to the Stormtroopers. More than likely the ODST's would have been deployed to areas that would allow them to fight in Close Combat with cover. Such as bombed out cities, mountains regions, dense forested areas, etc. Not to areas like wide open grasslands devoid of even a hill for as far as the eye can see...

 

When you fight you have to take terrain into consideration, and where these soldiers are most likely to be deployed and encounter one another.

 

That leads me to think that they would probably encounter each other in an situation similar to this:

 

 

Rather than a place like this:

 

 

 

And that would mean that that extra 185m of range would be useless, and that Stormtroopers would easily be in range of their Pistols.

 

 

Actually, as it stands, Vader holds MC up in the air with a Force Grip (something that he actually does) while some stormtroopers blast him

Except he doesn't... Remember when I talked about Obi-wan doing the EXACT SAME THING to General Grievous? (Minus the grip) Sure Vader does Lift people into the air with his crush to show off, however IIRC he has never done this in combat situations... He can't, because either he doesn't want to finish his fight too soon or he never thought about it in combat before. In either case that's not PIS, that's CIS, and Character Induced Stupidity is still valid in the CBUB.

[Guest force_echo]

He still has to trigger the same thought at the same speed in order to be able to do anything. Spartan Time slows this down. Its like that 2 or .2 (Don't remember which) second delay thing. -.-

Where do you get his power? From books? Cause im pretty sure Vader can match MC's reflexes, if not faster.

[Guest force_echo]

Good enough, a better example is using the car-crash scenario. Because what fuels their Spartan Time is Extreme amounts of Adrenaline which they naturally go into automatically before combat. The Adrenaline Rush they get heightens their perceptions so that the world looks as though someone were playing it in ultra slow motion. Now this has happened to normal people, except normal people 1) can't stay in an Adrenaline Rush for long, and 2) Can't really do jack squat in it because despite their Slow Motion sight, their bodies are still moving in normal time...

 

Spartans don't have these problems... they are capable of staying within an Adrenaline Rush for as long as is required in battle (though I would think that Prolonged intense non-stop battles might be tiring) AND they move as if that was their proper timeframe, moving at an equal level of speed to their enhanced perception of time. As such to anyone watching them while they Spartan Time, it appears as if they are moving in a Blur of Motion.

 

What this means for the fight is this. Vader, although a Force User, has only marginally improved Reflexes and Perception, thanks to his years of training, he Might have the Option of using Force Speed to try and Match the Chiefs Spartan Time, but as it's a a Skill and not a Natural Ability the Chief would automatically have a one up on him...

 

Reaction times

Regular Human ~ 0.200 seconds

Trained Human ~ 0.150 seconds aprx

Spartan Human ~ 0.020 seconds

 

 

 

Clairvoyance is only a Plot Related Skill of Force Users

Precognition in battle only allows the user to anticipate what their opponent will try to do...

 

Which leads (unfortunately) a Naruto Example..... There was this one batle in Naruto between the resident Emo Sasuke and the ADHD supposed protagonist Naruto, at (IIRC the name) the valley of the end? Sasuke had always been able to beat his opponents because his Eye's could tell him everything about his opponents moves before the tried their moves, like force battle precognition. He could anticipate his opponents and seemingly out speed them and then beat them... Then Naruto fights him and gets his Obligatory ShÅnen Power Boost with his Fox Cloak, which Amps up his speed to insane levels... Although Sasuke can anticipate what Naruto will do, he cannot keep up with the insane speed, and himself gets his ass handed to him until he uses his Obligatory ShÅnen Power Boost to even the fight up... However they were not really fighting to the death, and were just kids really... Here we have to hardened killers who want to kill with the first or second hit.

 

Which is why the Chief wins...

 

 

 

Ok, basically I gave Grenades to the ODST's because although they are less deadly 1) they have more ammo, and 2) are actually designed to be used as a throwing weapon.

 

Sure you can chuck a Thermal Detonator, but who knows why they wanted it as a Petard instead of a lobbed grenade... if could be that in throwing it, it screws up the mechanism and has a higher chance of becoming a dud due to impact. As well, a cylinder isn't the best object to bounce around corners and such. and Lastly the Colour of them... Rarely are you going to be in a situation where your surroundings are 100% white, meaning that they will see said grenade flying and any Marine worth their salt would dive away from it, and chances are they're going to see it As it's thrown AND see it sailing at them. Which would give them enough time to gtfo of the way or even shoot it out of the air (you can do it in halo)...

 

And besides a 3.75m casualty radius can still kill if those Troopers aren't tended to, and with the mentality of the Stormtrooper Corp, that Casualty Radius would be an out right kill, as the trooper bleeds out...

 

So comparison

Kill Radius

Frag ~ 3.75m

ThDe ~ 5m

Winner ~ ThDe

 

Ammo

Frag ~ 3

ThDe ~ 1

Winner ~ Frag

 

Throw

Frag ~ Yes, and bounce into hard spots

ThDe ~ Not supposed to but can

Winner ~ Frag

 

Camo

Frag ~ Matt Dark Olive

ThDe ~ Bright and Shiny White

Winner ~ Frag

 

3 out a 4 means a win to the Fragmentation Grenade.

 

 

 

Except that ODST's do not engage in Long Distance Firefights across open terrain. Sure Blasters have better ranges than the ODST's weapons, but that just means that the ODST's would take the fight to the Stormtroopers. More than likely the ODST's would have been deployed to areas that would allow them to fight in Close Combat with cover. Such as bombed out cities, mountains regions, dense forested areas, etc. Not to areas like wide open grasslands devoid of even a hill for as far as the eye can see...

 

When you fight you have to take terrain into consideration, and where these soldiers are most likely to be deployed and encounter one another.

 

That leads me to think that they would probably encounter each other in an situation similar to this:

 

 

Rather than a place like this:

 

 

 

And that would mean that that extra 185m of range would be useless, and that Stormtroopers would easily be in range of their Pistols.

 

 

 

Except he doesn't... Remember when I talked about Obi-wan doing the EXACT SAME THING to General Grievous? (Minus the grip) Sure Vader does Lift people into the air with his crush to show off, however IIRC he has never done this in combat situations... He can't, because either he doesn't want to finish his fight too soon or he never thought about it in combat before. In either case that's not PIS, that's CIS, and Character Induced Stupidity is still valid in the CBUB.

Alrighty, where to start. First off Vader's reflexes are not "marginally" enhanced, they can deflect bolts going at up to 22,000 kmph, less than 1% of light speed but still. Basically a friggin padawan moves this fast, now take Vader who kills Jedi Masters for a moderate excercise, oh btw this brings me to your Force Choke reference: When mono a mono Vader uses the force choke quite often, and you got a person who can easily match Spartan reflexes. Add to that better close range experience and a wide array of powers and MC gets completly destroyed. Now the gernade issue, In the Stormtrooper armor, they are cylindrical thermals, these are for structural purposes. But, Stormies also carry standard infantry thermals that are neither shiny, white, or cilyndrical. These military grade mofos have a blast radius of 20 meters, and unlike frags COMPLETLY OBLITERATE EVERYTHING IN THE RADIUS, thermals are mini-nukes. Ok, now the armor issue, yes ODSTs have beast armor, I know, but Stormie armor is pretty impervious to ballistic weapons so unless an ODST pulled out a Splaser, theyre not gettin through.

[Skirmisher]

Alrighty, where to start. First off Vader's reflexes are not "marginally" enhanced, they can deflect bolts going at up to 22,000 kmph, less than 1% of light speed but still. Basically a friggin padawan moves this fast, now take Vader who kills Jedi Masters for a moderate excercise, oh btw this brings me to your Force Choke reference: When mono a mono Vader uses the force choke quite often, and you got a person who can easily match Spartan reflexes. Add to that better close range experience and a wide array of powers and MC gets completly destroyed. Now the gernade issue, In the Stormtrooper armor, they are cylindrical thermals, these are for structural purposes. But, Stormies also carry standard infantry thermals that are neither shiny, white, or cilyndrical. These military grade mofos have a blast radius of 20 meters, and unlike frags COMPLETLY OBLITERATE EVERYTHING IN THE RADIUS, thermals are mini-nukes. Ok, now the armor issue, yes ODSTs have beast armor, I know, but Stormie armor is pretty impervious to ballistic weapons so unless an ODST pulled out a Splaser, theyre not gettin through.

Ok, Show me where it states that Blaster Bolts travel at 6100 m/s. Please, because From everything I have seen they move Much, Much slower than that. They fire at average velocities of 40 to 200 m/s for most Infantry Grade Weapons.

 

As well, Vader still needs to See his target and then Lift his hand up to preform the Choke. Even with his reflexes he would still be Too Slow to counter the Chief.

 

No, they don't carry such 20m radius Grenades, please provide Evidence that they do.

 

As well, I covered EXACTLY what the Stormtrooper armour was Capable of, and Flat out stated that an SMG was going to do Shit all against it. But their Pistols are designed to punch though armour and would act as if that Plastoid armour were nothing but Plastic... As well, I also stated that the Frag Grenade would have it's effectiveness severely reduced. I have taken Everything into account, and Still see ODST's pwning Stormtroopers.

[Guest thetrekker]

Just to jump in here on the grenade issue.

This is a Merrson Munitions Class-A Thermal Detonator

It is highly illegal except for military personal. It has a range of 20 meters obliterating everything. It is camoed as you can see. If the Stormtroopers had this, then would *insensitivity*.

 

Unfortunatly, they have these.

A Bradium-core code key thermal detonator. It has a range of 5 meters and adjustable time settings anywhere from 6-18 seconds. It has a key code (to activate it) that only stormtroopers know. It is not camoed.

 

I am not saying they will lose because of this, I am mereley stating facts.

[Guest Ruinus]

Clairvoyance is only a Plot Related Skill of Force Users

Precognition in battle only allows the user to anticipate what their opponent will try to do...

 

Which is why the Chief wins...

 

Naruto=/=Star Wars

 

Can that Sasuke hold people up in the air with telekinesis? Can he choke people with his mind? No? Then it doesn't matter, and the example is moot.

 

BTW, I like your example, as it hows the MC attacking immediately and the exactly the knowledge needed to kill Vader (giving him some sort of pre-battle intel on how to kill him) but doesn't assume Vader has the same intel and suddenly starts choking MC from a distance.

 

Ok, basically I gave Grenades to the ODST's because although they are less deadly 1) they have more ammo, and 2) are actually designed to be used as a throwing weapon.

 

Sure you can chuck a Thermal Detonator, but who knows why they wanted it as a Petard instead of a lobbed grenade... if could be that in throwing it, it screws up the mechanism and has a higher chance of becoming a dud due to impact. As well, a cylinder isn't the best object to bounce around corners and such. and Lastly the Colour of them... Rarely are you going to be in a situation where your surroundings are 100% white, meaning that they will see said grenade flying and any Marine worth their salt would dive away from it, and chances are they're going to see it As it's thrown AND see it sailing at them. Which would give them enough time to gtfo of the way or even shoot it out of the air (you can do it in halo)...

 

And besides a 3.75m casualty radius can still kill if those Troopers aren't tended to, and with the mentality of the Stormtrooper Corp, that Casualty Radius would be an out right kill, as the trooper bleeds out...

 

Again, no. The grenade can be thrown, but against hardened targets it placed against it. It doesn't say anything about throwing it turning it into a dud. Also, what the hell does it matter if you can blow up the grenades mid-flight in Halo? (AFAIK this is purely from Halo: Reach and if so, I don't see why SPARTAN blowing up grenade mid flight =/= ODST blowing up grenade mid flight). Either way:

 

Coruscant Nights II pg 23:

But even as he wondered at their naivete, another object hurtled at him. The pattern of ripples it made in the force told him it was a ntoher small round object, most likely another grenade- and this one, he sensed, was impact sensitive.

 

...

 

And one of the stormtroopers fired another blaster bolt, but not at him. The energy pulse struck the grenade arcing toward him, and detonated it.

He'd been sucker-punched Even realized. The luma had been meant to distract him, to let them get inside his guard with their real attack. The shock wave hammered him, lifting him and hurling him back. He collided against a support column with a terrible impact. The Force had protected him from immediate vaporization, but the pillar had been a surprise. He felt his bones snap and his organs burst when he hit the unforgiving fibreplast.

The stormtroopers can actually fire on their own grenades (and whatever this was, it seemed to be a different grenade than the standard issue).

 

Also, the frag grenades would only hurt the stormtrooper if it slices in through the black body glove.

 

Except that ODST's do not engage in Long Distance Firefights across open terrain. Sure Blasters have better ranges than the ODST's weapons, but that just means that the ODST's would take the fight to the Stormtroopers. More than likely the ODST's would have been deployed to areas that would allow them to fight in Close Combat with cover. Such as bombed out cities, mountains regions, dense forested areas, etc. Not to areas like wide open grasslands devoid of even a hill for as far as the eye can see...

 

When you fight you have to take terrain into consideration, and where these soldiers are most likely to be deployed and encounter one another.

 

That leads me to think that they would probably encounter each other in an situation similar to this:

 

Rather than a place like this:

 

And that would mean that that extra 185m of range would be useless, and that Stormtroopers would easily be in range of their Pistols.

 

Right, so of course you assume that the terrain favors the ODST, and not the stormtroopers, even though there is no such statement in the OP? You also assume that the ODST are always the ones who are going to get the drop on the stormtroopers, or that the stormtroopers won't engage the enemy from farther out? Hell, even the cover doesn't matter, as the thermal dets would vaporize them away, and the ODST behind it too.

 

Even then, the M6C has 12 rounds in it, the E-11 has 500, the ODST will start running out of shots faster, and will have to be reloading more often.

 

Except he doesn't... Remember when I talked about Obi-wan doing the EXACT SAME THING to General Grievous? IIRC he has never done this in combat situations

 

[Indolent]

Where do you get his power? From books? Cause im pretty sure Vader can match MC's reflexes, if not faster.

Are you assuming Vader can just move as fast as Master Chief?

 

Because Master Chief's Spartan Time is where he moves first and is faster. -.-

 

Vader doesn't move as a blur and he still has that 2/.2 second delay thing to get through before he can make a move.

 

Can you see how I'm seeing this? o.o

 

And no... blaster bolts are so much slower than bullets... -.-

[Guest force_echo]

Ok, Show me where it states that Blaster Bolts travel at 6100 m/s. Please, because From everything I have seen they move Much, Much slower than that. They fire at average velocities of 40 to 200 m/s for most Infantry Grade Weapons.

 

As well, Vader still needs to See his target and then Lift his hand up to preform the Choke. Even with his reflexes he would still be Too Slow to counter the Chief.

 

No, they don't carry such 20m radius Grenades, please provide Evidence that they do.

 

As well, I covered EXACTLY what the Stormtrooper armour was Capable of, and Flat out stated that an SMG was going to do Shit all against it. But their Pistols are designed to punch though armour and would act as if that Plastoid armour were nothing but Plastic... As well, I also stated that the Frag Grenade would have it's effectiveness severely reduced. I have taken Everything into account, and Still see ODST's pwning Stormtroopers.

Ok, basically blaster bolts are plasma energized by a light beam, the plasma comes from Tibanna gas packs, light comes from power packs. You basically have intense Beta radiation, except much much slower, beta radiation travels near the speed of light and free electrons from the energized plasma fires at the standard movement of electrons through space, 22,000 kmph. Theres also a force power called Force Reflex, which further enhances a Jedi's superhuman reflexes. Like I said before, blaster bolts moving at snails pace, is bs mechanics.

[Guest force_echo]

One more thing, jedi prerecognition, like a Spider Sense. Dont give me bullshit about how this is not canon either, Anakin's pdraces are just one of many examples I can dig up.

[Skirmisher]

Ok, basically blaster bolts are plasma energized by a light beam, the plasma comes from Tibanna gas packs, light comes from power packs. You basically have intense Beta radiation, except much much slower, beta radiation travels near the speed of light and free electrons from the energized plasma fires at the standard movement of electrons through space, 22,000 kmph. Theres also a force power called Force Reflex, which further enhances a Jedi's superhuman reflexes. Like I said before, blaster bolts moving at snails pace, is bs mechanics.

Ok... Blasters are not Laser Weapons... they're charged plasma blasts... That means that they don't travel anywhere Near the Speed of Light, though with enough energy they could get really close...

 

What it means is that the More powerful the shot, the faster it goes... But from evidence in the Movies... an Average Anti-Personnel Blast only travels at roughly 40m/s there are some instances where higher powered rifles fire much faster, in the 100 to 200 m/s range of speed... And then there's the Most powerful Blasters used by Infantry the Long Blasters which can cut a man in half at long range, and are seen with Velocities approaching that of conventional firearms... but that's not the case here...

 

They're firing E-11's and all usual times that you see a Jedi/Sith parrying shots is from close range small arms... at such ranges the firer wouldn't have though to increase the Power of his bolts because that wastes ammo.

 

Also there's this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RKONrE4j_U

 

Notice that there was one trooper who DODGED the Blast Just as it was being parried by Kiadimundi? This would mean that Said Blaster Bolt could not have been traveling anywhere near the 6100m/s that you think they travel... and Basing it off of other calcs that have shown speeds as slow as 40 m/s then it is Likely that their Standard Blasts move THAT slow, and could be Dodged or Parried by highly Skilled people, without the use of the Force... the Force only allows them to Anticipate Where the attack will come from and allow them with their skill to move their blade to where the attack will be...

 

 

One more thing, jedi prerecognition, like a Spider Sense. Dont give me bullshit about how this is not canon either, Anakin's pdraces are just one of many examples I can dig up.

Force Precognition only allows them to Anticipate what will happen moments into the future... With Anikens Pod Race, it allowed him to know instinctively that he would have to make a turn left or right, or that there were Jagged rocks up ahead...

 

It isn't a Spider Sense... it only allows them to Anticipate what will happen... it's up to their Natural skills and abilities after that, and that's why Jedi and Sith Train the shit out of themselves with loads of Physical Work... The more trained their bodies are the better they are to react to what they anticipate...

 

Except here a Spartans Natural Abilities are Many Times Greater than a Jedi/Sith's and there is no way in hell that they could keep up with a Spartan in combat, unless they were to Actively use Force Speed... Except Vader has NEVER shown the ability to use Force Speed... and I doubt that he could use it with his mechanical limbs....

[Guest sirmethos]

a good example of the Jedi reflexes is Qui-Gon catching JarJars tongue in Ep.1.

 

also, Anakin in the Pod Races, already at the age of 9(and probably earlier) he had the 'superhuman' reflexes necessary for Pod Racing. it is logical to assume that with training, his reflexes increased when he was older.

 

also, since it "allows them to anticipate what happens", once could logically assume that Darth Vader would anticipate the Master Chiefs attack and either Force Push him away, slash him with the Lightsaber as he attacks, simply catch him with Grip, or as Vader generally did to counter faster opponents "use the Force to pull out anything from his surroundings that wasn't nailed to the ground and fling the improvised missiles at his opponent".

 

 

 

 

and i can't remember who said that Vader would use Force Lightning... but Vader was not able to use that technique, so no he wouldn't.