....

[The Void]

....
 

1. This is current /classic Thor
    
2. They all really want to win.

This is just a fun and civil debate.

[The Void]

I'll go first...

[The Void]

Okay let me first start off saying that Thor may have trouble fighting Black Adam..I mean this is the f##king Black Adam. The same Black Adam that solo'ed most of the heros in DC. Even though he is an anti-hero, he is a very ruthless one and showed it many times. Here is a good example of his ruthlessness..

 

 

Not only that, but Black Adam's speed may be a problem for Thor. IIRC Black Adam was able to hang with speedsters such as Jay Garrick. Even though Jay Garrick is not the fastest Flash, he is still REALLY FAST! But I believe Sentry can counter Adams speed if Thor and Sentry work together.

 

But anyways. We heard the ole' saying that Thor holds back against all mortals on Earth. People like Hulk give Thor hell, but still Thor holds back because he knows he may kill Hulk. Thor also holds back against villains that the Avengers face.

 

But here is where not only Thor, but Cap too states that Thor holds back against mortals.

 

 

Black Adam is in no way NO MORTAL. Even though morals are on, Thor would find out that Black Adam is one hell of a opponent and will fight at his best, because that is what Thor does.

 

Here is just one example of Thor not holding back against a mortal and this is Thor in character/morals. Here he makes his lighting powerful enough to hurt the Chaos King.

 

 

I believe if Thor finds out Adam is one hell of a opponent then he will fight like the God he is..

 

 

 

Now Martian the Manhunter would be another problem. His telepathy, phasing and diverse powerset in general. But that is where I believe Sentry comes into play.

 

MM is weak against fire...Correct me if I am wrong. Sentry has produced a lot of fire in the past, a lot of fire that it nearly covered the island of Manhattan with his fight against World War Hulk. Now that was Sentry not able to control himself...This is Sentry with his mind intacted. This is the Sentry who was at genius level.

 

As said before, MM's telepathy may be problem, but again thats where Sentry comes into play.

 

Its been stated in comics that you need Sentry's permission to get access into his mind. The likes of Xavier has stated you need his permission to get into his mind. Now we all now how great of a telepathy Xavier is, one of the greatest if not best on Marvel Earth. And if memory serves me correctly Black Adam has resisted MM's telepathy. I believe the Sentry can too. And I also believe the Sentry can be a physically match for MM.

 

Whew...That was a lot. Your turn sirmethos.

[xLEGACYx]

Is this for just the two of you or can others comment?

[The Void]

Is this for just the two of you or can others comment?

 

Just the two of us. You can still comment.

[Guest sirmethos]

"I believe Sentry can counter Adams speed if Thor and Sentry work together."

 

Sentry is going to be busy with Martian Manhunter, who is just as fast as Adam(if not faster).

 

 

"Black Adam is in no way NO MORTAL"

 

Black Adam is just as much a "mortal" as the Hulk is. I.e. a normal human, that has been given god-level powers.

 

 

 

"MM is weak against fire...Correct me if I am wrong. Sentry has produced a lot of fire in the past,"

 

1. No, J'onn is not weak against ordinary fire(that weakness disappeared after the storyline with Fernus.

 

2. Even if J'onn still had that weakness, Sentry doesn't know about it.

 

 

"The likes of Xavier has stated you need his permission to get into his mind. Now we all now how great of a telepathy Xavier is, one of the greatest if not best on Marvel Earth. And if memory serves me correctly Black Adam has resisted MM's telepathy. I believe the Sentry can too."

 

1. J'onn is both a much more powerful, and a much more skilled telepath than Xavier(or any other telepath from Marvel Earth for that matter).

 

2. No, Black Adam did not resist J'onn's telepathy. He pushed all of his pain(that was the cause of his rage in WW3) into J'onn's mind, and J'onn was temporarily overwhelmed by it. Once J'onn recovered, he went back and pushed his own pain, of losing the entire population his planet, into Adam's mind. Which overwhelmed Adam.

 

 

"And I also believe the Sentry can be a physically match for MM."

 

Sentry is possibly a match in terms of Strength, Speed and Durability, but he doesn't have any counter for J'onn's intangibility.

 

That said, with both of them being high level telepaths, it's more likely that it will be a telepathic battle, rather than a physical one.

 

 

 

For Telepathy, J'onn is pretty much a winner here. While Sentry has some impressive defenses, Martian Manhunter has broken through worse. Including Spectre's mental defenses, Mageddon's mental defenses, and the Angelic Overmind(something that only The Great Evil Beast) has managed before.

[The Void]

"Sentry is going to be busy with Martian Manhunter, who is just as fast as Adam(if not faster)."

 

 

 

This is true, but the fighters can possibly attack a different opponent, I'm just saying.

 

 

Black Adam is just as much a "mortal" as the Hulk is. I.e. a normal human, that has been given god-level powers.

 

When using the Shazam powers he is no where near a mortal. Hulk doesn't even come close to the power of Black Adam. He is basiaclly a entity empowered by the six gods and Thor would see that. If he does go back into human form, than I am pretty sure Thor would see him as no threat, but in his Shazam form Thor would see him as a big threat. The Void was mortal who can turn into a powerful being, but Thor saw him as a threat.

 

 

 

 

1. No, J'onn is not weak against ordinary fire(that weakness disappeared after the storyline with Fernus.

 

2. Even if J'onn still had that weakness, Sentry doesn't know about it.

 

What type of fire is he weak against?

 

1. J'onn is both a much more powerful, and a much more skilled telepath than Xavier(or any other telepath from Marvel Earth for that matter).

 

2. No, Black Adam did not resist J'onn's telepathy. He pushed all of his pain(that was the cause of his rage in WW3) into J'onn's mind, and J'onn was temporarily overwhelmed by it. Once J'onn recovered, he went back and pushed his own pain, of losing the entire population his planet, into Adam's mind. Which overwhelmed Adam.

 

1. That can be debatable...

2. I see.

 

 

 

Sentry is possibly a match in terms of Strength, Speed and Durability, but he doesn't have any counter for J'onn's intangibility.

 

That said, with both of them being high level telepaths, it's more likely that it will be a telepathic battle, rather than a physical one.

 

 

1. For intangibility I believe Sentry has been able to use it before. Now he just used it once, but if MM does use intangibility then I believe Sentry will use his to counter it.

As you can see the bulllets are going right through him.

 

2. Good point.

 

For Telepathy, J'onn is pretty much a winner here. While Sentry has some impressive defenses, Martian Manhunter has broken through worse. Including Spectre's mental defenses, Mageddon's mental defenses, and the Angelic Overmind(something that only The Great Evil Beast) has managed before.

 

Do you have a scan of MM breaking through the Spectres and Overminds mental defense? Also another telepathic feat of the Sentry is making everyone on Earth forgetr about him. Sentry's telepathic abilities potentially planetary.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Team 2 FTW. Adam and Thor would be a good match, but I can comfortably say MM would be Sentry, then he can help out Adam.

 

Just my two cents.

[Guest sirmethos]

"This is true, but the fighters can possibly attack a different opponent, I'm just saying."

 

True, but if they switch then Thor is screwed. Since he can't defend himself against J'onn's telepathy.

 

And likewise, Adam would have a hard time defending himself against Sentry's telepathy.

 

 

"When using the Shazam powers he is no where near a mortal. Hulk doesn't even come close to the power of Black Adam. He is basiaclly a entity empowered by the six gods and Thor would see that. If he does go back into human form, than I am pretty sure Thor would see him as no threat, but in his Shazam form Thor would see him as a big threat. The Void was mortal who can turn into a powerful being, but Thor saw him as a threat."

 

Hulk is a being of potentially unlimited power.

 

Black Adam, like Thor, has a static, finite, power level.

 

While Black Adam is, as a baseline, more powerful than Hulk. Hulk is potentially more powerful than both Adam and Thor.

 

Again, Black Adam is just as much a "mortal" as Hulk is. Or Blue Marvel, if you want another example.

 

 

"What type of fire is he weak against?"

 

"After regaining control over himself when he became Fernus, J'onn has stated that he no longer fears ordinary flames and that the only fire that can trigger his fear is fire of psychic or mystical power."

 

 

"1. That can be debatable..."

 

It's a debate I'm more than willing to take up.

 

 

"1. For intangibility I believe Sentry has been able to use it before. Now he just used it once, but if MM does use intangibility then I believe Sentry will use his to counter it."

 

Good point. But again, the fight between J'onn and Sentry, will most likely be a telepathic one.

 

 

"Do you have a scan of MM breaking through the Spectres and Overminds mental defense?"

 

 

 

 

I don't have a scan of the Overmind feat, but it happened during the Zauriel limited series(I don't have the comic readily available).

[xLEGACYx]

Sentry has blocked his existence from all on earths minds but manhunter has communicated a detailed situation and plan to all on earth and coordinated a strike against Meggadon.

[The Void]

It seems I'm going to have my hands full...

 

"This is true, but the fighters can possibly attack a different opponent, I'm just saying."

 

True, but if they switch then Thor is screwed. Since he can't defend himself against J'onn's telepathy.

 

And likewise, Adam would have a hard time defending himself against Sentry's telepathy.

 

Actually sirmethos I pretty much think Thor can resist MM's telepathy. He resisted Moondragons telepathy in the past twice...Moondragon who is one of Marvel's best telepaths.

 

Here he frees himself from Moondragons mental manipulation..

 

Here a direct mental blasts from Moondragon's Mind Gem are equally useless against Thor.

 

And also here he resists the Stranger's mind-blast where Moondragon could not....

 

 

So I think it's safe to assume Thor has pretty good telepathic resistance and could resist MM's telepathic powers.

 

 

 

 

"Hulk is a being of potentially unlimited power.

 

Black Adam, like Thor, has a static, finite, power level.

 

While Black Adam is, as a baseline, more powerful than Hulk. Hulk is potentially more powerful than both Adam and Thor.

 

Again, Black Adam is just as much a "mortal" as Hulk is. Or Blue Marvel, if you want another example."

 

 

My major point is that if Black Adam pushes Thor to his limits than Thor will no longer consider him a 'mortal'. I mean if you read comics with current Thor it seems like Thor wants to really hurt people and also his fight with Tony Stark in his Thorbuster...Thor seemed like he wanted to kill Tony. Now Black Adam>Tony Stark in Thorbuster. He's not going to looking at a person who can take on both Superman and Captain Mavel as a mortal.

 

Also we don't know enough about Blue Marvel.

 

"After regaining control over himself when he became Fernus, J'onn has stated that he no longer fears ordinary flames and that the only fire that can trigger his fear is fire of psychic or mystical power."

 

 

"1. That can be debatable..."

 

It's a debate I'm more than willing to take up.

 

 

"1. For intangibility I believe Sentry has been able to use it before. Now he just used it once, but if MM does use intangibility then I believe Sentry will use his to counter it."

 

Good point. But again, the fight between J'onn and Sentry, will most likely be a telepathic one.

 

1.Hmmmm...Okay.

2. I mean Charles telepathic abilities are at planetary level. While on Earth Charles was able to sense the X-Men weakening in their fight in outer space (also he notes that he is not at full power). He was also able to scan stars and accidentally learned of an alien invasion, unaided by Cerebro....Those are good telepathic feats IMHO...

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have a scan of the Overmind feat, but it happened during the Zauriel limited series(I don't have the comic readily available).

 

It looks like Spectre could have been weakened.

[Guest bigballerju]

Good debate between both of you. Stranglehold has a point on the telepathy part about Thor. Thor has shown telepathy resistance on some occasions. It just depends on how Thor is written since one minute he is written to show how powerful he is and the next he is written to put another character over.

 

Sentry didn't make everybody on Earth forget him by will or because he knows how to. That happened by accident and was triggered. Sentry hasn't shown the ability to even be able to use telepathy on a Charles Xavier or Martian Manhunter level. He isn't even close. Just thought I would mention that.

 

Keep up the debate because so far it's close.

[The Void]

Thanks bigballerju.

 

But you should note that Profs X has stated he could not enter Sentry's mind without permission.

[Guest sirmethos]

"Actually sirmethos I pretty much think Thor can resist MM's telepathy. He resisted Moondragons telepathy in the past twice...Moondragon who is one of Marvel's best telepaths."

 

He has also been held under Moondragon's mind control.

 

 

"2. I mean Charles telepathic abilities are at planetary level. While on Earth Charles was able to sense the X-Men weakening in their fight in outer space (also he notes that he is not at full power). He was also able to scan stars and accidentally learned of an alien invasion, unaided by Cerebro....Those are good telepathic feats IMHO..."

 

Martian Manhunter has(on multiple occasions) scanned every mind on earth in a few moments.

 

He has also taken out hundreds of White Martians(all of which are high level telepaths themselves), ending up with mind-wiping all of them.

 

When he was fighting Malefic(his brother), he made telepathic contact with The Source.

 

It was revealed that J'onn was telepathically keeping all of the dead martian race, from passing on to the after life. He did that subconsciously.

 

 

As an extra 'weapon' against Sentry, in a telepathic battle. J'onn can change the physical structure of his brain. Like he did to make himself capable of understanding the Joker's mind(by changing his own brain, to make himself as insane as the Joker).

 

According to Xavier, Shapeshifters are extremely difficult to use telepathy on(Xavier is unable to scan Mystique's mind).

 

On top of that, J'onn has several thousand years worth of telepathic skill and experience. Where Sentry has almost none.

 

As shown by Sinister against Nate Grey, Skill and experience can beat even superior power(and there is nothing to suggest that Sentry is a more powerful telepath than J'onn).

[The Void]

 

He has also been held under Moondragon's mind control.

 

But he resisted it and freed himself. He also resisted Strangers control yet Moondragon couldn't resist it...And I posted a scan of Thor resisting one of MD mind attacks and she said his rage was too strong.

 

 

Martian Manhunter has(on multiple occasions) scanned every mind on earth in a few moments.

 

He has also taken out hundreds of White Martians(all of which are high level telepaths themselves), ending up with mind-wiping all of them.

 

When he was fighting Malefic(his brother), he made telepathic contact with The Source.

 

It was revealed that J'onn was telepathically keeping all of the dead martian race, from passing on to the after life. He did that subconsciously.

 

I heard of that one and Xavier could do it too.

 

1. Xavier was able to go up against Dark Phoenix in a mind battle on every plane of existence simutaneously. He was also able to get into the mind of Ego the Living planet.

2. I would like to see a scan of this please or at least the issue # where it happened.

3. Impressive feat man, can I also have a scan or issue number for this also.

 

But here another good telepathic feat from Charles...He was able to get inside Galactus Psi shields and force 9 billion skrulls inside his mind and he did it all the way from the moon...

 

To me that is impressive.

 

 

As an extra 'weapon' against Sentry, in a telepathic battle. J'onn can change the physical structure of his brain. Like he did to make himself capable of understanding the Joker's mind(by changing his own brain, to make himself as insane as the Joker).

 

According to Xavier, Shapeshifters are extremely difficult to use telepathy on(Xavier is unable to scan Mystique's mind).

 

On top of that, J'onn has several thousand years worth of telepathic skill and experience. Where Sentry has almost none.

 

As shown by Sinister against Nate Grey, Skill and experience can beat even superior power(and there is nothing to suggest that Sentry is a more powerful telepath than J'onn).

 

 

1. What's that going to do against the Sentry?

2. Isn't that because Shape Shifters use different minds and I am pretty sure Xavier has scaned Mystique's mind before.

3. This is Stable minded Sentry, meaning he will know how to use his powers and Sentry has used his telepathy abilities offensively before and those who try to enter his mind risk having a bad side effect like the Void entering their mind. Like what happened to Emma Frost.

4. His telepathic abilities are above Xavier. That's a good start.

 

Anyways your turn.

[Guest bigballerju]

Stable minded Sentry has still not shown the ability to use telepathy on a Xavier or Manhunter level.

[Guest MarxzVulpez]

A few questions here

1.) Can all of them breathe/ survive space? I know Thor can, and i think MMH, not sure about the other two (if they could, that would eliminate BFR)

2.) Thor has the God Blast correct? And if so, wouldn't he use it if he was desperate enough?

3.) Can someone give me a list of Sentry's powers I'm not that familiar with him. Maybe MMH's too?

[comic_book_fan]

sentry is no xaiver i am not sure about mm they seem alot closer xaiver was reading everymind on earth by the time he was 12 and xaiver is the most powerful telepath on marvel earth. and he has beat thor in every encounter i have seen them in and has done so easly.

and his power is currently doing so again in uncanny avengers.

he has beat sentry as well.

[The Void]

Do you still wanna continue this...sirmethos?