Mythbusters: CBUB

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

The most telling thing is that no one, at all, has ever produced any example of Dragon Ball Z characters moving at c. All these claims are from still comic panels (which is ridiculous for obvious reasons) or extrapolating from stuff like "Well... this character moves this fast, and this character is twice as strong as that guy so... light speed yay!"

 

 

 

 

just like people GUESS Sentry went to the sun and back in 8 minutes, I see what you mean, but you guessing is just the same, i don't care if a panel implies ftl, unless it is stated it can't be real? wrong, based on your logic, nothing has been proven unless someone says it specifically.

 

Going by that logic, When Brolly was killed in the second movie, Brolly is shot out towards the sun in less than a 10 seconds and so can we assume that the shots are ftl, yet they aren't? Yet people have been seen to dodge, block, or deflect the blasts before?

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

I think it is Gohan, then Goku, then Gotenks

 

 

Goku has trained as SSJ#, Gotenks just became a SSJ# when he never even reached SSJ2

well considering Super Buu would own Goku, no he is not stronger then SS3 Gotenks

[Indolent]

just like people GUESS Sentry went to the sun and back in 8 minutes, I see what you mean, but you guessing is just the same, i don't care if a panel implies ftl, unless it is stated it can't be real? wrong, based on your logic, nothing has been proven unless someone says it specifically.

 

Going by that logic, When Brolly was killed in the second movie, Brolly is shot out towards the sun in less than a 10 seconds and so can we assume that the shots are ftl, yet they aren't? Yet people have been seen to dodge, block, or deflect the blasts before?

Eh, Marvel's known to be far more scientifically accurate than DBZ as well. Plus, there were conversations during the whole process compared to the one panel of DarkSaiyajin's, which makes for more of a compelling case.

 

Okay, this example is sadly non canon.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

well considering Super Buu would own Goku, no he is not stronger then SS3 Gotenks

 

 

 

I don't recall Goku at SSJ3 fighting the same Buu that Gotenks fought?

 

I do recall Goku wanting the kids to fight because he was not going to be there forever. I do recall the Kai's witnessing SSJ3 Gotenks and then Goku saying, "well I can do that too"

 

as if to say that he is like them or that he is not taking their power as higher than his. In fact Goku further says this after he says that he probably could have taken fat Buu out, but then again let the kids fight.

 

But then Gohan turns Mystic and Goku looks surprised, as if to say oh shit, he is really powerful,

 

 

So why would Goku do that?

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Eh, Marvel's known to be far more scientifically accurate than DBZ as well. Plus, there were conversations during the whole process compared to the one panel of DarkSaiyajin's, which makes for more of a compelling case.

 

Okay, this example is sadly non canon.

 

scientificlly accurate is the wrong words, you mean Marvel is more detailed t fictional facts. I mean chi is a real energy so DBZ is more accurate than sun dipped gods and magic wielding people.

 

This is non canon, and I agree, lets just move on and enjoy the discussion.

[Guest Ruinus]

just like people GUESS Sentry went to the sun and back in 8 minutes, I see what you mean, but you guessing is just the same, i don't care if a panel implies ftl, unless it is stated it can't be real? wrong, based on your logic, nothing has been proven unless someone says it specifically.

 

No, the problem with that panel is that it's just that, a still image. Darksaiyajin345 tried peddling some bullshit about 1 panel equaling 1 second, and then when I showed this was ridiculous, he went to "oh, panels have different time lenghts, except this one that is 1 second because I say so". In the anime it actually shows the same event and it takes 6 seconds.

 

You can make assumptions, but only if your assumptions are based on solid ground. As I said, to date no one has shown any DBZ character being FTL, so all argument of "Well, this character was FTL so all these other stronger characters must be too!" is based on an unproven premise.

 

Going by that logic, When Brolly was killed in the second movie, Brolly is shot out towards the sun in less than a 10 seconds and so can we assume that the shots are ftl, yet they aren't? Yet people have been seen to dodge, block, or deflect the blasts before?

 

Of course not. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, simply because some beams are FTL doesn't mean all of them are. Either way, as far as I know, Broly is non-canon anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[Indolent]

scientificlly accurate is the wrong words, you mean Marvel is more detailed t fictional facts. I mean chi is a real energy so DBZ is more accurate than sun dipped gods and magic wielding people.

 

This is non canon, and I agree, lets just move on and enjoy the discussion.

No, its actually the correct words. Here's an example:

 

They have speedsters capable of going lightspeed, and yet, they make them go a slower speed while on planets like Earth out of fear because if they went full speed, the force behind said speed would tear the planet apart. Its why Silver Surfer limits himself on Earth.

 

In DBZ, we don't see that, instead, we see them fighting at full power, and at full speed. :/

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

I don't recall Goku at SSJ3 fighting the same Buu that Gotenks fought?

 

I do recall Goku wanting the kids to fight because he was not going to be there forever. I do recall the Kai's witnessing SSJ3 Gotenks and then Goku saying, "well I can do that too"

 

as if to say that he is like them or that he is not taking their power as higher than his. In fact Goku further says this after he says that he probably could have taken fat Buu out, but then again let the kids fight.

 

But then Gohan turns Mystic and Goku looks surprised, as if to say oh shit, he is really powerful,

 

 

So why would Goku do that?

Goku knew he wasnt a match for Super Buu or else he would not hae suggested fusing with Gohan

[DamagingRob]

Goku knew he wasnt a match for Super Buu or else he would not hae suggested fusing with Gohan

Or Vegeta. Heh.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

No, its actually the correct words. Here's an example:

 

They have speedsters capable of going lightspeed, and yet, they make them go a slower speed while on planets like Earth out of fear because if they went full speed, the force behind said speed would tear the planet apart. Its why Silver Surfer limits himself on Earth.

 

In DBZ, we don't see that, instead, we see them fighting at full power, and at full speed. :/

 

 

 

yes which is why mountains get crumbled in seconds. Your point? and why Goku always tries to fight somewhere open.

 

And How Sentry didn't give a crap and fought Hulk, yet windows were the only things broken, while people saw through their windows? Just how in Dragon Ball Z the reason energy attacks sometimes seem small or don't destroy the earth, is because they focus it and or redirect it.

Not trying to sound rude, really simply stating

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

Goku knew he wasnt a match for Super Buu or else he would not hae suggested fusing with Gohan

 

 

true, you have a great point, I agree with you.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

No, the problem with that panel is that it's just that, a still image. Darksaiyajin345 tried peddling some bullshit about 1 panel equaling 1 second, and then when I showed this was ridiculous, he went to "oh, panels have different time lenghts, except this one that is 1 second because I say so". In the anime it actually shows the same event and it takes 6 seconds.

I was not trying to peddle Bullshit it made sense because the aura over laps It was meant to be shown as a huge speed feat and I didn't just says so the anime is wildly considered non cannon and even with a 30X multiplier he still exceeds light speed even with your fact and the 6 seconds in the anime assuming he was going all out as a ssj1.

60,112 km/s X 30= 1,803,360 km/s

Even with lower than 50X multipliers and above 20X multipliers he still achieves light speeds

[Indolent]

yes which is why mountains get crumbled in seconds. Your point? and why Goku always tries to fight somewhere open.

 

And How Sentry didn't give a crap and fought Hulk, yet windows were the only things broken, while people saw through their windows? Just how in Dragon Ball Z the reason energy attacks sometimes seem small or don't destroy the earth, is because they focus it and or redirect it.

Not trying to sound rude, really simply stating

My point is: If they're actually going full speed, and if they're light speed like a few people claim, why isn't the majority of the surface of the planet severely devastated from their fights, let alone not destroyed? Simply because the physics in DBZ works differently. This everyone should know, and is why I say Marvel's more scientifically accurate. Realism if you will.

 

Hrm, Sentry did destroy several blocks when he fought Hulk with his energy blasts. Which, last I checked, is more than broken windows. And people didn't see through their windows, NYC was evacuated. I'm perfectly aware of this aspect.

[Indolent]

I was not trying to peddle Bullshit it made sense because the aura over laps It was meant to be shown as a huge speed feat and I didn't just says so the anime is wildly considered non cannon and even with a 30X multiplier he still exceeds light speed even with your fact and the 6 seconds in the anime assuming he was going all out as a ssj1.

60,112 km/s X 30= 1,803,360 km/s

Even with lower than 50X multipliers and above 20X multipliers he still achieves light speeds

Actually, if the anime doesn't contradict the manga, it can be used. Its still canon.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Actually, if the anime doesn't contradict the manga, it can be used. Its still canon.

It does contradict it SOMEtimes, not a lot tho, but yes both are applicable, I'd like to point out that the surface does get messed up. That is why they fight in baron wastelands that are like a million miles wide but are like a few miles away lol. In any DBZ fight mountains are blown apart like nothing, and that happens when they are blocking the opponents attacks.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

My point is: If they're actually going full speed, and if they're light speed like a few people claim, why isn't the majority of the surface of the planet severely devastated from their fights, let alone not destroyed? Simply because the physics in DBZ works differently. This everyone should know, and is why I say Marvel's more scientifically accurate. Realism if you will.

 

Hrm, Sentry did destroy several blocks when he fought Hulk with his energy blasts. Which, last I checked, is more than broken windows. And people didn't see through their windows, NYC was evacuated. I'm perfectly aware of this aspect.

 

 

Valid argument, indeed, but even so if Goku fought there, best believe his attacks alone would cause the city way more damage. light speed would not destroy the planet's surface but would damage it for sure.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Gotenks only needs to be 5X stronger than his ssj1 form to move ftl considering 60,112 X 5=300,560km/s

So even if ssj2 was only a 5X! boost he still would go FTL and if ssj2 was only a 5X boost Goku would have been able to kill Perfect Cell with a X5 kaioken combo with ssj.

[Guest Ruinus]

I was not trying to peddle Bullshit it made sense because the aura over laps It was meant to be shown as a huge speed feat

 

Again, it isn't artistic license to show out his path? I guess the giant Japanese letters that are sometimes scrawled along the panels is also real?

 

and I didn't just says so

 

"There is no 1 panel= a second thing for the manga but the panel times vary and that one panel was a second"

 

Here. The anime also shows the auro overlapping (not that I see what this has to do with anything), and it takes 6 seconds to do the same.

 

the anime is wildly considered non cannon

 

The anime is canon, the only things I am aware of that are non-canon are the Broly movies for some reason.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Again, it isn't artistic license to show out his path? I guess the giant Japanese letters that are sometimes scrawled along the panels is also real?

 

 

 

"There is no 1 panel= a second thing for the manga but the panel times vary and that one panel was a second"

 

Here. The anime also shows the auro overlapping (not that I see what this has to do with anything), and it takes 6 seconds to do the same.

 

 

 

The anime is canon, the only things I am aware of that are non-canon are the Broly movies for some reason.

1. Aura lines are different then the letters. Those are sound effects not energy that the characters create.

2. I have been using your statistics and still get FTL speeds with the multipliers as low as X5.

3. There are huge chunks of the anime that are non cannon the entire Garlic jr saga for one most of Goku vs Freeza for 2.

[Guest Ruinus]

Gotenks only needs to be 5X stronger than his ssj1 form to move ftl considering 60,112 X 5=300,560km/s

So even if ssj2 was only a 5X! boost he still would go FTL and if ssj2 was only a 5X boost Goku would have been able to kill Perfect Cell with a X5 kaioken combo with ssj.

 

30X multiplier he still exceeds light speed even with your fact and the 6 seconds in the anime assuming he was going all out as a ssj1.60,112 km/s X 30= 1,803,360 km/s Even with lower than 50X multipliers and above 20X multipliers he still achieves light speeds

 

Gotenks SSJ3 vs Super Buu

 

Look at that amazing FTL battle!

 

As I've said a few times now. No one has ever shown the DBZ fighters moving or fighting at FTL speeds, the only "evidence" for such things is like Darksaiyajin345 "Well if we multiply their speeds by this amount then they are light speed!"

 

I'll post this again:

Power Levels

Gotenks: 250,000,000

Ssj Gotenks: 300,000,000

 

Difference of 50,000,000 (20%)

 

Another Power level:

SSJ Gotenks: 35,000,000

SSJ3 Gotenks: 75,000,000

 

SSJ Gotenks: 38,000,000

SSJ3 Gotenks: 41,000,000

 

Difference of 40,000,000 and 3,000,000 (114% and 7%) respectively

 

Yet a third Power Level:

Super Gotenks - 1,500,000,000

Super Gotenks 3 - 4,500,000,000

 

Difference of 3,000,000 (200%)

 

A fourth Power Level:

gotenks full power super sayain 585,000,000

gotenks super sayain 3 power level 970,000,000

 

Difference of 385,000,000 (65%)

 

So the increase in power levels is between 7% and 200% which means his speed increases between 64,319 km/s to 180,336 km/s. He's still short of light speed.

 

[Guest Ruinus]

1. Aura lines are different then the letters. Those are sound effects not energy that the characters create.

2. I have been using your statistics and still get FTL speeds with the multipliers as low as X5.

3. There are huge chunks of the anime that are non cannon the entire Garlic jr saga for one most of Goku vs Freeza for 2.

 

1. But the artist can still make a single still panel with the lines crossing over the Earth to show his path, but not necessarily the time it took.

 

2. Here is Gotenks SSJ3 fighting Super Buu. Show me the FTL. I dare you.

 

3. And yet this part isn't non-canon, because it deals with things that happen in the manga.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

Gotenks SSJ3 vs Super Buu

 

Look at that amazing FTL battle!

 

As I've said a few times now. No one has ever shown the DBZ fighters moving or fighting at FTL speeds, the only "evidence" for such things is like Darksaiyajin345 "Well if we multiply their speeds by this amount then they are light speed!"

 

I'll post this again:

Power Levels

Gotenks: 250,000,000

Ssj Gotenks: 300,000,000

 

Difference of 50,000,000 (20%)

 

Another Power level:

SSJ Gotenks: 35,000,000

SSJ3 Gotenks: 75,000,000

 

SSJ Gotenks: 38,000,000

SSJ3 Gotenks: 41,000,000

 

Difference of 40,000,000 and 3,000,000 (114% and 7%) respectively

 

Yet a third Power Level:

Super Gotenks - 1,500,000,000

Super Gotenks 3 - 4,500,000,000

 

Difference of 3,000,000 (200%)

 

A fourth Power Level:

gotenks full power super sayain 585,000,000

gotenks super sayain 3 power level 970,000,000

 

Difference of 385,000,000 (65%)

 

So the increase in power levels is between 7% and 200% which means his speed increases between 64,319 km/s to 180,336 km/s. He's still short of light speed.

 

Fake power levels when you watch Superman battle it never looks FTL but no one questions that it is or isn't all your doing is taking everything that is non cannon and saying well the people who made these PLs only showed a 7-200% increase and despite what the Daizenshuu and the characters themselves state about how chi works and the multipliers work.

[Guest Ruinus]

I know they aren't official, I even stated so the first time I posted that. I find it funny though that people don't use PL threads when they don't work for you (in this case, not showing increases of x50) and yet make up their own when trying to get other people's strenghts.

 

Either way, I linked you to the Gotenks SS3 vs Super Buu fight. So you will no doubt show all the FTL fighting.

[Guest Darksaiyajin345]

I know they aren't official, I even stated so the first time I posted that. I find it funny though that people don't use PL threads when they don't work for you (in this case, not showing increases of x50) and yet make up their own when trying to get other people's strenghts.

 

Either way, I linked you to the Gotenks SS3 vs Super Buu fight. So you will no doubt show all the FTL fighting.

For one I cant watch it im at school and they block videos. But I will at home and the difference is I have NEVER shown a power level that wasn't official from the Daizenshuu heck some of your power level listings shows Gotenks weaker than Freeza saga ssj Goku. So don't say I throw out power levels that I don't agree with we can't give a number for Gotenks power. And after looking at some other supposed FTL battles a lot of the fights in DBZ seem extremely fast.

[Guest Ruinus]

I never said you did. There was a "you" in my sentence, but there was also a "people", you was just poor wording.

 

But sure, I've got a class to get to too, so I will wait. Or someone else in here can look at that video and show the FTL scenes.