Comics Mechanics

[Guest sirmethos]

a lot of people don't seem to get it, so i'm posting this in a thread of it's own, so i can simply link to this thread as an explanation.

 

 

in comics we have 'Comics Mechanics', which means that there is Always someone who is at an advantage, and others who are at a Disadvantage.

 

the 'hero' of the comic advantage, which means that the hero always wins. he might get temporarily beaten down once or twice, but sooner or later, he wins.

 

the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage, the opposite of the 'hero' advantage

 

the 'important to the plot' Character sheild, similar to the 'hero' advantage. someone important to the plot will generally win, and prove how extremely powerful they are, until they get beaten in the end. until the Plot is finished, the characters protected by this, will not die. <- Superboy-Prime is an excellent example of this

 

the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage, a character like Magneto, Apocalyse, Captain Atom, etc. that was created with powers that make them so powerful that using their full powers would end the story in 3 pictures, are generally 'limited' in some way. Captain Atom mentally limits himself, Magneto has his inner struggle, Strong Guy has a weak heart, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

when you pick up a comic, let's for the sake of example say it's a Spider-Man comic, then Spider-Man will win whatever fight he gets into, because he has "the 'hero' of the comic advantage", in the same comic, you have Spider-Man fighting against Venon, an opponent who is superior to Spider-Man in pretty much every way. in that comic, Venom Will lose, because he has "the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage".

 

it doesn't matter that Venom is superior to Spider-Man, and that he would, in a realistic fight, wipe the floor with him. simply because Spider-Man is the hero, and Venom is the villain.

 

 

now, let's take another example:

 

let's say you pick up another comic, this time, for the sake of the example, it's a Superman comic with Superman fighting Darkseid.

 

now, aside from the advantage and disadvantage mentioned in the last example, why does Darkseid not use some of his Many stated powers, to simply destroy Superman? Darkseid is a powerful Telepath, he could easily destroy Supermans mind with a single thought, or make him a mindless slave, but why doesn't he do that? Darkseid also has the power to revert the evolutioniary patterns of an organism, which means, in simple terms, that with a single thought, he could transform Superman into a single-cell microbe. but why doesn't he do that?

 

the answer is that both Darkseid, Captain Atom, Major Force, and any other character even close to those levels of power, are restrained by "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage", which means, that they will never actually Use their full powers(or anything close to it) during a comic, simply because it would ruin the story, it would make things boring.

 

no one wants to read a comic with just two pages, showing Captain Atom swoop in and destroy the villain with a single thought, or seeing Superman get turned into an amoeba by Darkseid, they want to see action packed battles, they want to see the hero struggle, and win in the end. they Don't want to see the hero effortlessly take care of all the problems within the first page of the comic, or randomly get beaten by the villain in the span of 2 pictures. However, despite all these things, Darkseid Does have Powerful psionic powers, and the power to revert the evolutionary process of organisms, he Does have the power to travel in time, and a whole list of other powers he pretty much never uses, just as Captain Atom Does have the power to create and destroy a universe, and X-Man Does have nigh-unlimited psionic power.

 

 

 

there is a lot more to Comics Mechanics than i have explained here, but these are the rough basics and should give people a general understanding of what Comics Mechanics actually is.

 

if it turns out there is a need to explain more, i will add to this thread in the future.

[G4hardcore]

Sounds about right.

[Guest Omega11]

1. I don't know that I completely agree with the Spider-Man/Venom example. I think Spidey should indeed frequently(if not always) win those encounters. Peter is much cleverer and more intelligent than Brock(or Gargan) and knows the specific weaknesses of the symbiote.

 

2. The "Too powerful to be interesting" typically leads to P.I.S. and C.I.S.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Another good example of this is Secret Invasion.

Ms. Marvel beating a Sentry/Hulk Skrull?

[Guest God-Speed_88]

I have a feeling that this is directed towards me because you want to use that stupid "creating a universe" feat .

 

When I debate in a fight I think its fair to look at a characters high and low end feats, in order to judge roughly what they're capable of. Not say HE CAN CREATE A UNIVERSE SO HE BEATS EVERYONE EVEN THOUGH HE DOESN'T IN COMICS BUT THATS BECAUSE ITS MECHANIC....

 

I understand your whole hero will prevail over villain. Main characters in the plot won't lose etc etc.

 

But saying Major Force can destroy/create a universe is retarded. You clearly have seen this one feat on another board and spunked. Neither Major Force nor Captain Atom have shown this level of power since then.

 

Go and read Generation Lost, or when Kyle killed MF and come back to me with a more realistic view of their powers.

 

Also please lose the smugness.

[Guest sirmethos]

I have a feeling that this is directed towards me because you want to use that stupid "creating a universe" feat .

 

When I debate in a fight I think its fair to look at a characters high and low end feats, in order to judge roughly what they're capable of. Not say HE CAN CREATE A UNIVERSE SO HE BEATS EVERYONE EVEN THOUGH HE DOESN'T IN COMICS BUT THATS BECAUSE ITS MECHANIC....

 

I understand your whole hero will prevail over villain. Main characters in the plot won't lose etc etc.

 

But saying Major Force can destroy/create a universe is retarded. You clearly have seen this one feat on another board and spunked. Neither Major Force nor Captain Atom have shown this level of power since then.

 

Go and read Generation Lost, or when Kyle killed MF and come back to me with a more realistic view of their powers.

 

Also please lose the smugness.

 

 

well, a large part of it Was copy/pasted from a post directed at you( http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....40&start=40 last post on the site), since i didn't really want to type all that one more time, but the captain atom example is just as valid as the rest.

 

and who's smug? i'm simply explaining a concept, that several people on cbub seem to have trouble grasping, in a thread of it's own so i can simply link to this thread, instead of having to retype the explanation time and time again.

 

 

when i debate, i start out using their Powers and Skills. every single character from comics, has a 'list' of stated powers and skills. thus we can look at those and simply compare them. if those powers/skills are too equal to easily find a winner, then we can start looking at feats.

 

and, when looking at Feats, i always keep in mind that the various feats are affected by the story. for example, Spider-Man lifting a tank that easily weighs more than 10 tons, though everyone knows that his strength is 10 tons, thus, since that feat obviously lies outside of his actual capabilities, it goes under Comics Mechanics and is useless.

 

this is the main thing that people seem to have trouble grasping.

 

in debates with Superman, we have 'feats' from several different versions of Superman listed in the same debate, despite the different versions actually having different capabilities. Pre-Crisis Superman was a lot more powerful than Modern day Superman, and Spider-Man had different powers after his encounter with the Queen, as wel as after The Others, modern day Sabretooth is significantly more powerful than earlier versions(before he died that is), etc. etc. etc.

 

 

however, any character, as said, has a list of Stated Powers. no matter what happens in the stories, as long as their powers are not stated to have changed, still have the same Stated powers, regardless of whether they use those powers or not.

[Guest God-Speed_88]

well, a large part of it Was copy/pasted from a post directed at you( http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....40&start=40 last post on the site), since i didn't really want to type all that one more time, but the captain atom example is just as valid as the rest.

 

and who's smug? i'm simply explaining a concept, that several people on cbub seem to have trouble grasping, in a thread of it's own so i can simply link to this thread, instead of having to retype the explanation time and time again.

 

 

when i debate, i start out using their Powers and Skills. every single character from comics, has a 'list' of stated powers and skills. thus we can look at those and simply compare them. if those powers/skills are too equal to easily find a winner, then we can start looking at feats.

 

and, when looking at Feats, i always keep in mind that the various feats are affected by the story. for example, Spider-Man lifting a tank that easily weighs more than 10 tons, though everyone knows that his strength is 10 tons, thus, since that feat obviously lies outside of his actual capabilities, it goes under Comics Mechanics and is useless.

 

this is the main thing that people seem to have trouble grasping.

 

in debates with Superman, we have 'feats' from several different versions of Superman listed in the same debate, despite the different versions actually having different capabilities. Pre-Crisis Superman was a lot more powerful than Modern day Superman, and Spider-Man had different powers after his encounter with the Queen, as wel as after The Others, modern day Sabretooth is significantly more powerful than earlier versions(before he died that is), etc. etc. etc.

 

 

however, any character, as said, has a list of Stated Powers. no matter what happens in the stories, as long as their powers are not stated to have changed, still have the same Stated powers, regardless of whether they use those powers or not.

 

I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think that is a very realistic feat to use and I love Cap. Atom.

[Guest sirmethos]

I understand where you are coming from. I just don't think that is a very realistic feat to use and I love Cap. Atom.

 

 

of course it's not realistic, it's comics. but realistic or not, that level of power is a part of his Stated Powers.

 

Unlimited ability to Absorb and Manipulate Energy. that single word, Unlimited, means that he is more powerful than 99% of other characters in comics.

 

Silver Surfer has limits, Beyonder has limits, X-Man has limits, Scarlet Witch has limits, Franklin Richards has limits. their limits might be obscene, but they are limits nonetheless.

 

 

the only Limit, that Captain Atom has on his power, is his own imagination. now i don't know about you, but i can imagine a whole lot.

[Guest God-Speed_88]

of course it's not realistic, it's comics. but realistic or not, that level of power is a part of his Stated Powers.

 

Unlimited ability to Absorb and Manipulate Energy. that single word, Unlimited, means that he is more powerful than 99% of other characters in comics.

 

Silver Surfer has limits, Beyonder has limits, X-Man has limits, Scarlet Witch has limits, Franklin Richards has limits. their limits might be obscene, but they are limits nonetheless.

 

 

the only Limit, that Captain Atom has on his power, is his own imagination. now i don't know about you, but i can imagine a whole lot.

 

Yeah but if he absorbs to much he moves through time as we have seen several times before. Hence his imagination can only cope with so much.

 

I'm not doubting he is a very powerful character. Beyonder level, no chance.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

My counter argument is that just because someone is more powerful/better doesnt mean they are going to win. Tell that to the Patriots when they lost to the Giants, or when Mike Tyson was knocked out the first time by Buster Douglass. Everyone had their money on Tyson

[Guest victim36]

My counter argument is that just because someone is more powerful/better doesnt mean they are going to win. Tell that to the Patriots when they lost to the Giants, or when Mike Tyson was knocked out the first time by Buster Douglass. Everyone had their money on Tyson

Those are situations were there is a logical chance of victory. Where the nessecary requirements to win are not beyond the underdog's ability. A "puncher's chance" if you will.

 

sirmethos isn't talking about a close fight. He's talking about people being so powerful that there is no way that their opponents should be able to win. To use Darkseid as an example; if he can reverse evolution with only a thought, then Superman should never be able to touch him. However, this would make Darkseid to powerful, unbeatable. So he gets "nerfed" for the sake of the story.

 

Same thing happens in DBZ. The bad guys have been able to blow up planets since the end of the Sayian Saga. But, despite their power levels becoming hundred of thousands of times stronger, the ultimate attack of the lead villian is still a planet buster. The Z fighters are constantly fighting bad guys who are stronger and faster than the one before. Yet the devestation never significantly increases, why? Because, if the destructive force evolved properly the stories in the latter end of series would be incredibly short and very bleak for mankind. So the powers are tweaked.

 

Remember no matter how powerful a character is, if there is no justifiable conflict then there is no story. If Hulk never got beat down, if Darkseid always won, or if Galactus was never fought off the stories would be forgettable.

 

It has to keep readers engaged, or what's the point of writing it.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Those are situations were there is a logical chance of victory. Where the nessecary requirements to win are not beyond the underdog's ability. A "puncher's chance" if you will.

 

sirmethos isn't talking about a close fight. He's talking about people being so powerful that there is no way that their opponents should be able to win. To use Darkseid as an example; if he can reverse evolution with only a thought, then Superman should never be able to touch him. However, this would make Darkseid to powerful, unbeatable. So he gets "nerfed" for the sake of the story.

 

Same thing happens in DBZ. The bad guys have been able to blow up planets since the end of the Sayian Saga. But, despite their power levels becoming hundred of thousands of times stronger, the ultimate attack of the lead villian is still a planet buster. The Z fighters are constantly fighting bad guys who are stronger and faster than the one before. Yet the devestation never significantly increases, why? Because, if the destructive force evolved properly the stories in the latter end of series would be incredibly short and very bleak for mankind. So the powers are tweaked.

 

Remember no matter how powerful a character is, if there is no justifiable conflict then there is no story. If Hulk never got beat down, if Darkseid always won, or if Galactus was never fought off the stories would be forgettable.

 

It has to keep readers engaged, or what's the point of writing it.

No trust me I agree 100 %, I was saying that is my counter argument for people using comic mechanics for their side of the debate

[Guest sirmethos]

No trust me I agree 100 %, I was saying that is my counter argument for people using comic mechanics for their side of the debate

 

 

i don't know about other people, but i only use Comics Mechanics when Comics Mechanics are actually involved.

 

ie. when people start using the results of fights in comics, as an argument for why their chosen character would win the fight.

 

 

for example, Darkseid loses to Superman, or Silver Surfer loses to... well, pretty much Any earth bound hero/character, etc.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

i don't know about other people, but i only use Comics Mechanics when Comics Mechanics are actually involved.

 

ie. when people start using the results of fights in comics, as an argument for why their chosen character would win the fight.

 

 

for example, Darkseid loses to Superman, or Silver Surfer loses to... well, pretty much Any earth bound hero/character, etc.

If it is something obvious like Darkseid vs Superman, in all honesty Darkseid would win he is in a whole othe league, so I understand the comic mechanics argument. But if it is a closer fight like Superman vs Captain Marvel for example, I'd use my counter if someone brought up mechanics in a fight like that.

[Guest sirmethos]

It was suggested to me that I copy this post I made, to this thread, because it explains things in a more easily understandable way(though personally I don't see how it's more easily understandable).

 

Anyway, here it is:

 

 

 

I have heard of comic mechanics. This was a good explanation. However, by saying this completely applies to every time a hero beats a villain, are you saying we should scrap all of the statistics between heroes and villains? So if I went and made a fight right now, Superman vs Darkseid, you would vote for Darkseid? Even though this is a massive assumption, and I could be wrong, I doubt you would vote for Darkseid.

 

If you made a match between Superman and Darkseid and that match is a straight up fight, then yes, I would vote for Darkseid.

 

In a straight up fight, there is nothing Superman can do to beat Darkseid, while Darkseid has countless ways to defeat Superman in a matter of seconds.

 

If it's not a straight up fight, then depending on the circumstances, I might change my vote.

 

A race for example, say... Three times around the earth. Superman would get my vote every time, simply because Darkseid has no real Super Speed.

 

 

 

Also, I'm not saying we should immediately scrap anything, what I'm trying to say with my explanation about Comics Mechanics, is that instead of simply taking everything at face value, at least keep in mind the capabilities of the characters and consider if it is within the parameters of those capabilities.

 

 

For example, Spider-Man defeating Firelord, or Black Panther defeating Silver Surfer, just to use some more extreme examples.

 

With those two examples, the capabilities(powers and skills) of the characters are so mismatched that there is no way in hell Spider-Man or Black Panther would have won those fights without Comics Mechanics.

 

Likewise, in a straight up fight, there is no way in hell Superman would beat Darkseid, unless he has Comics Mechanics on his side.

 

 

 

In debates like the ones we have here on CBUB, I start by looking at the capabilities of the characters, before I start even Considering various feats.

 

If the capabilities are not roughly equal, then there is no reason to start looking at feats in the first place.

 

 

Lobo vs. Wolverine. extremely mismatched, no reason to look at feats.

 

Superman vs. Hyperion, roughly equal capabilities, now we have to look at their feats/history in order to determine a winner.

 

 

also, when looking at Feats, again keep the capabilities in mind.

 

A comic shows Spider-Man(with no mention of any power-ups), lifting 50+ tons, not possible within the capabilities of the character, hence feat is useless.

 

Comic shows Spider-Man easily dodging gunfire from half a dozen thugs with automatic weapons, well within the capabilities of the character, hence, Good feat.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

A comic shows Spider-Man(with no mention of any power-ups), lifting 50+ tons, not possible within the capabilities of the character, hence feat is useless.

http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....showtopic=14230

Also if it is canon it counts

[Guest sirmethos]

http://www.electricferret.com/forum/index....showtopic=14230

Also if it is canon it counts

 

I already read your thread, I agree with the reasoning of it and I do take that into account.

 

The problem with that, is that when people post scans in order to give proof of various feats, they take them out of context, and thus we have no way of determining whether we're talking about a situation where the character would have an adrenaline rush, or simply a case of bad writing and Comics Mechanics.

 

 

For example, as a strength feat for Spider-Man(a month or two ago) someone posted a scan, with a single image of Spider-Man lifting an object with an estimate weight of 50 tons.

 

Now, how are you going to argue that that specific case, is a case of Spider-Man having an adrenaline rush? easy, you can't.

 

In order to actual take the Adrenaline rush into account, people need to show some of the context when posting scans or talking about feats, otherwise, it's just not usable.

[Ivan]

This is why I hate the CBUB. This thread right here. This one. Look at what you've done. You want comic book characters to win all their fights. No, actually, you want sirmethos to win all his arguments, you don't give a flying f*ck about comic book characters. They're just a tool for you to use to feel smart on the internet. Never in my life did I think I'd read an argument that makes John Byrne's car door argument look like the sanest thing anyone on the internet has to say about Superman.

 

However, despite all these things, Darkseid Does have Powerful psionic powers, and the power to revert the evolutionary process of organisms, he Does have the power to travel in time, and a whole list of other powers he pretty much never uses, just as Captain Atom Does have the power to create and destroy a universe, and X-Man Does have nigh-unlimited psionic power.

 

Why are these seldom-seen uber powers, which contravene the basic nature of the characters in question, an exception to the rule, when Spider-Man lifting 50 tons is not? Because sirmethos decrees it. Pure and simple. You've set yourself as the sole arbiter of what is acceptable, which normally I wouldn't mind because I like you and I think you're intelligent and funny, but goddammit this style of thinking just highlights every single thing that is wrong with people who argue about superheros on the internet. No, those characters can NOT do those things, or they'd be doing them all the time, ever. You've got it ass-backwards, because your argument frames the writers and storylines as hindrances to the "true" nature of a character, rather than being the entire goddamned point for the characters existence.

 

If Darkseid can travel time, he'd be doing it, all the time. Period. Per Degaton can travel time, and he's not got one tenth the ambition Darkseid has. If Darkseid could travel time, there would be no need for a truce with New Genesis. To say that rarely seen and rarely used powers are a part of a characters core set of abilities is to ignore everything relevant about that character because you want to have a dick-waving contest, and need to stack the odds in your favor beforehand.

 

It just frustrates me. Why? You've clearly read many comics in your life. What can possibly be fun about steamrolling random 14 year olds on the internet who have received the bulk of their Batman knowledge from your message board posts, rather than ever having read an actual Batman comic? You're so much better than this shit!

 

Look, I'm venting, and I don't mean for this to be a personal attack. You know enough about comics to be part of the LBFA crowd- to actually enjoy the works and discuss them with intelligent people, and yet you cling to debates on CBUB where you need entire footnote posts just so you can win fights with newbs, only your "victories" are all meaningless because they don't know the difference between Kryptonite and Corbomite. What gives? By all rights you should've tired of these jerks years ago. Ugh. I'm getting old.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

I have to disagree Ivan.

 

Characters "forget" their powers all the time.

 

Darkseid is an extremely powerful telepath right? Well in Superman/Batman, Batman has a password Darkseid needs, so what does Darkseid do? He interrogates him physically. Why wouldn't Darkseid just use his telepathy to rip the information from Batman? For the sake of the plot that is why.

 

Instances like that happen all the time.

 

Now for you to say the CBUB is full of people who don't know the difference between Kryptonite and Corbomite is bullshit. When are you on the CBUB forums? The idiots you are thinking of stick to writing CBUB matches. The most frequent members that go on the forum are intelligent people.

 

Really though, it seems like you see what a few CBUBers do and say, and stereotype the whole CBUB. It's f*cking ignorant what it is. You've been on EF since like day one? So you have seen your fair share of idiots, but that doesn't mean the WHOLE CBUB is like that. Someone that is as smart as you shouldn't spew such ignorant shit. As I said the most frequent CBUBers that go on the forum, do not fit the criteria you are bashing the whole CBUB for.

 

Besides that, no one blindly accepts what sirmethos, or what anyone says on CBUB(unless the answer is painfully obvious). To say everyone listens to sirmethos because he decrees it, is the same for me to say that people bash the CBUB because you and the admins make it cool. People to think the CBUB is full of morons, then I challenge them to get into the debates, and see if that doesn't change their opinion.

 

edit: Then again this will all go in one ear and out the other. Why do I bother sometimes

[C.T.]

Actually the whole CBUB is like that. We have countless threads of who would beat who and with another thread saved up to explain why and we rarely, if at all, talk about personalities.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Actually the whole CBUB is like that. We have countless threads of who would beat who and with another thread saved up to explain why and we rarely, if at all, talk about personalities.

We are on two different CBUBs then.

 

edit: Then again I'm pissing in the wind right now, I'll cut my losses.

[Guest Soberguy]

Sorry Hayes, Ivan is absolutely correct. The vast majority of CBUB arguments - and certainly the really heated ones - inevitably devolve into a bunch of idiots screaming about feats and power levels.

 

Really, the problem is inherent to the CBUB in general. Comic characters vary WILDLY in the abilities depending on the writer and time period in which a story was written. Beyond that, directly comparing relative powers in such an environment is next to impossible. Who is a better archer: Green Arrow or Hawkeye? Who knows? Who can tell? Yet here we have whole threads dedicated to trying to argue it by referencing outlandish feats from some obscure one-off no one ever read before.

 

Anyhow, I suppose my conclusion is that the CBUB should be closed down forever and never spoken of again. Someone get on that, okay?

[Guest bigballerju]

Ivan does have a point. I have said this whole comic mechanics crap is stupid since it first started being used on CBUB months ago. For once like Nova said on another thread can we just talk about our favorite stories or why we like certain characters more in threads?

 

Oh and Hayes your just asking for it. Ivan has always been on the CBUB forums even if he doesn't post that much and by the way we have some very talent people that write matches.

 

What your angry because certain things happen in comics that don't make sense or aren't right? So what?! Who gives a damn its a fricking comic book and its always going to have certain things that aren't right. Thats why we love comics so we can enjoy the stories we love and laugh at the horrible ones.

 

Hell I thought it was funny when Black Panther put that hold on Surfer. I laughed my ass off and didn't bitch about powers.

 

For once can we talk about our superheroes personalities like Nova said? You know like I love Damien as Robin because he is literally Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and Dick put together. Oh by the way whoever keeps saying heroes always wins in comics hasn't picked up a comic in years.

[Guest Hayesmeister5651]

Ivan does have a point. I have said this whole comic mechanics crap is stupid since it first started being used on CBUB months ago. For once like Nova said on another thread can we just talk about our favorite stories or why we like certain characters more in threads?

 

Oh and Hayes your just asking for it. Ivan has always been on the CBUB forums even if he doesn't post that much and by the way we have some very talent people that write matches.

 

What your angry because certain things happen in comics that don't make sense or aren't right? So what?! Who gives a damn its a fricking comic book and its always going to have certain things that aren't right. Thats why we love comics so we can enjoy the stories we love and laugh at the horrible ones.

 

Hell I thought it was funny when Black Panther put that hold on Surfer. I laughed my ass off and didn't bitch about powers.

 

For once can we talk about our superheroes personalities like Nova said? You know like I love Damien as Robin because he is literally Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and Dick put together. Oh by the way whoever keeps saying heroes always wins in comics hasn't picked up a comic in years.

Not angry at all.

 

If you want to gab about personalities then start a thread for it. I don't see how you two claim personalities aren't considered. Anytime Superman is in a fight, it is pointed out that he won't go FTL on Earth because the damage it will cost. Is that not a part of his personality? How about the fact when Hal Jordan is brought up, I mention his cocky-ness will screw him over, is that not a part of his personality.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

of course it's not realistic, it's comics. but realistic or not, that level of power is a part of his Stated Powers.

 

Unlimited ability to Absorb and Manipulate Energy. that single word, Unlimited, means that he is more powerful than 99% of other characters in comics.

 

Silver Surfer has limits, Beyonder has limits, X-Man has limits, Scarlet Witch has limits, Franklin Richards has limits. their limits might be obscene, but they are limits nonetheless.

 

 

the only Limit, that Captain Atom has on his power, is his own imagination. now i don't know about you, but i can imagine a whole lot.

 

 

Thats not true, that just means that he won't run out of gas, but someone more powerful will tear him up easily still.

The thing with you and others is you take everything at face value, when it shouldn't. Magento has unlimited energy, but try telling me that he will beat up Surfer who has less than infinite enrgy.