RiotGear

Yeah, sorry my bad. When I saw your post earlier, I thought it was Twogunkid posting.

You realize the Jem'Hadar were winning that fight right. Like one Jem'Hadar dropped multiple Cardassians. Also worth noting that as shown here said Cardassians are strong enough to toss around Quark who while smaller than some still has the proportions ( height and weight of a grown man ). In other words Cardassians are not weak. As a counter point here is a clip of human Boromir, even after injured and Hobbits dropping Uruk-Hai, which are basically the super soldier version of Orcs. and here Samwise a Hobbit gardener takes out a small group of Orcs.

Either method can be used to generate Orc strength, so I'm not sure one is a more correct method. Again, one of the problems with trying to translate game mechanics into real life terms. Also what table are you using get 3x. 17 is not 3x more than 8. At the table I can find. Gives lifting capacity for STR 10 at 100lbs and 260 for STR 17 ( 230 for STR 16 ). That's closer to 2.5x stronger. Even if we use 3x stronger that should put them in the physical ballpark of the Jem'Hadar and their opponents. And the Orcs still lack the unit cohesion, tactical skill, and the ability to turn invisible that the Jem'Hadar ha

I am somewhat wary of trusting game mechanics. We have more than enough lore where humans, halflings, etc take out Orcs and it's not uncommon in fiction for those "heros" to have started the story as farm boys and the like. Also using game mechanics Orcs get a +2 to strength stat boost. 2 is like 11% percent of 18 which is natural high for a human. I think the average human is said to have 8 or 10 strength, depending on the source used. So an Orc is roughly 10-20% stronger than your average human. That is a far cry from Vulcan that are 3xstronger than humans.

Generic fantasy Orcs also have more instances of being defeated by humans, halflings etc. Think about all the times such things have happened in D&D. Either way you look at it. Your point about Jem'Hadar losing to humans etc. Doesn't hold a lot of weight, when you realize the same is true for the Orcs. Except the Orcs are less organized, more prone to infighting, are less intelligent, and can't turn invisible. The Jem'Hadar have all of the Orcs advantages and none of their weaknesses.

Dude stop, humans can go three days with out water. Would you cry foul at a human wrestler hydrating before or during a match? How about eating a protein bar? If the Jem'Hadar have been keeping up on their regular ration of White, than they can Shroud, it's not like they have to take a hit to cloak. In every major battle Orcs fell to men, elves, and dwarves. Half Orcs dropped to Hobbits at the battle for the Shire. This of course only applies if we are using Tolkien only Orcs, instead of generic fantasy Orcs. Which have been gelled by all manner of things.

Dude, they die with out White. They have been genetically engineered to need it. Denying them White as a base line is like saying the Orc do not get food, rest, medical aid etc. We are taking about small unit melee fights, not the ability to wage war on a grand scale. Though the Jemycan clearly do that as well. The Dominion lost because of Devine intervention on the part of the Prophets, not on the failures of Jem'Hadar as soldiers. You pointed out the species that had beat the Jem'Hadar in melee combat, I did the same for the Orcs.

Few things here. As you mentioned we don't see Croc again for some time, so we actually don't know what kind of damage he took initially. He could have been passed out, half dead and saved by his healing factor. Also Batman also survived and while Batman is tough. He is not ok with a building being dropped on him tough. Which means that they ( Batman and Croc ) were likely trapped by rubble/debris not that it landed directly on them. We don't see impact the way we do with Mikey's feat. Shiva was able to handicap herself because of the skill gap, not the toughness gap. Again she doesn't have the same skill advantage here.

Do you have an example of Croc walking off a building being dropped on his head? Or better yet an example of Shiva doing so? Because until you have the later. The durability gap is still huge, even if Shiva has the striking power to hurt tougher opponents. Scaling Shiva off Cass works to a degree, but if she doesn't have feats of her own. It's still makes her reaction speed far more suspect then Mikey's. She maybe be able to beat Cass on account of other factors/stats/experience. Also the way these panels are drawn it might be high ends aim dodging, not straight up bullet timing. It's really impressive, but not the same thing.

It maybe used as a narrative substitute for addiction, but they have a literal biological need for White, sure they can survive without it for a bit, but most humanoids can go a bit without food too. If the Jem'Hadar don't have White are the Orcs coming into the match half starved? We see the Jem'Hadar operate without direct orders from Founders or Vorta. They are told to wrestle yes, but also to win. If they are not given specific instructions on how to achieve that goal, they are going to employ the most tactical plan they can muster. They can lose to all those species, but it's worth noting that all those species consider the Jem'Hadar to be physically dangerous, to the extreme. Also most of those loses are against highly skilled individuals and many of the races you mentioned are vaguely superhuman in their own right. Even the Ferengi. In the episode you mentioned "Magnificent Ferengi" we see a Ferengi throw a knife hard enough to embed it in the wall of a space station built from advanced metals. In "Last Outpost" a couple of Ferengi manage to physically drop Data, an android strong enough to bend metal and hold back speeding cars. Also remember we aren't dealing with 40k Orks here. These are run of the mill Tolkien-esque Orcs, that lose to men, dwarves, elves, halflings etc. In other words Orcs that are in no way physically superior to Jem'Hadar and lack the unit cohesion, tactical acumen, and extra powers of their opponents.

Do we have examples of Shiva dodging gunfire point blank? Croc doesn't have any noticable skill? Does he have the toughness to have a brick building dropped on his head with enough force to collapse said building and be perfectly fine?

The Jem'Hadar need Ketrocel White to live. Think of it as part medication and part food. Would you call a wrestler eating breakfast before a match, outside aid? Or call a diabetic wrestler taking insulin before a match outside aid? The Founders haven't ordered them to do anything here. And their standing orders are basically win. Jem'Hadar have a tactical mindset and are literally built for stealth and come from an empire that wages war through deception. The prison camp fights were about training and knowing their enemy. Jem'Hadar also routinely take out Klingons. Worf is a top tier combatant, so is Kirk. Remember Worf is a literal fighting champion and Kirk took out Khan, who is something like five times stronger than a none enhanced human. Infighting you say like if they couldn't find their opponents in a wrestling wrong they may just fight each other. That works in the Jem'Hadar's favor as well. It shouldn't be a bad pull, as it's that discipline that will allow them to work as a team and out think the Orcs.

Shiva tends to carry limited to no weapons. So even if she is more skilled than Mikey she's going to have to over come the gap in physical stats. For reference and with a thanks to @RakaiThwei Mikey's physical abilities. In other words Mikey is not only skilled in his own right, but also capable of smashing apart advanced alien metal, dodging near point blank range gun fire, and walking off having a building dropped on him. The stat gap is gonna be bigger in Mikey's favor, than the perceived skill gap in Shiva's favor.

Firstly it should be noted that the Jem'Hadar may well have the physical ability to fight with the Orcs and that, that combined with greater use of skill, tactics, and coordination in said fight would allow them to win. The Jem'Hadar are capable of fighting with species such as Vulcans. Who are not only stronger than Klingons, but Spock a half Vulcan had the physical strength to bend, crumple, and shatter metal with blows. This is how strong Spock is, Thing is though, the Jem'Hadar don't need to simply brawl, their Shroud/personal cloak and the ability to think and fight as a team. Give them other options. Chances are if they cloaked the Orcs would think they had run away with magic and exit the ring. Leaving the Jem'Hadar as the last ones standing in the ring. The Jem'Hadar could use a single unshrouded Jem'Hadar to lead the Orcs away and achieve the same results. Also being being able to turn invisible allows the Jem'Hadar to pick there moments. In other words even if the Orcs would win a fist fight and that's a big if. The Jem'Hadar don't half to sit there and brawl.

Are you judging based on the physical abilities of the actors playing Brock and Stone Cold or the physical abilities of the characters they are playing? We are not talking about giving them super powers in the sense of luck manipulation or the like. Just simply applying their physical feats how we have been for everybody else. Nobody has has questioned Green Arrows inhuman accuracy or Black Panther tossing around big cats and breaking metal. Even the athletes used as examples in this category are well above real world humans. Rocky is a hard puncher in a universe where the average heavyweight hits with 800 PSI. Spread across a four inch fist. That means the average heavyweight in the Rocky-verse is hitting with a ton and a half of force. All I'm saying is none of these characters are real and none of them are real world base line humans. So we shouldn't judge the WWE characters any different then we do a character from any other franchise/property.

In that case so are comic books and movies. If we are judging these characters on physical achievements than the completely fictional ones lose badly. Heck in that case Lesnar and Austin don't even have to worry about the bear because it's just pixels on a screen.

Batman has gone H2H against Killer Croc and stun the Hulk with a kick, Daredevil flipped a limo, Cassandra Cain karate chops swords in half, Batman was able to catch and hold a multi-meter long falling concrete column. In other words comic book peak humans and pro-wrestlers are in the same-ish tier.

I'd argue that they don't break the rules any worse than the blatantly superhuman feats being used for everyone else in this slot. A slot includes folks the likes of Black Widow and members of the Batman Family.

Funny things is, it's not really a joke. Their is no reason not to treat WWE like any other fictional universe. It'd be like saying bears can't do what the Cocaine Bear did or that in the real story the movie is based on the bear simply OD'd on cocaine.

They kinda can. Brock strength wise scales roughly to guys like Braun Strowman who flipped over a big rig truck or Mark Henry who held back a car with his legs. They also both have wins over Undertaker who in universe is a demonic undead necromancer wizard who can shoot fireballs, create mist, and control electricity etc. There is also that commercial where Brock F5s a shark. In other words. They maul the bear, the real question is, who wins when they fight each other.

Johnny's training methods include borderline death traps, he is likely more familiar with amusement parks, may have better reaction time, and is generally more acrobatic. All in all this might be better tailored to Lawrence's skill set, than Wick's.

Brock beats the bear. Steve beats Brock.

Seven is a pragmatist and a perfectionist. If building the best monster is what is needed for her team to succeed and for her to return to her home dimension and friends. Than she is gonna build the best damn monster she can. Also the challenge asks. Which scientists can build the best monster, not which one would try and build a monster in character.

Norm's a robot and while he serves as an antagonist in the story, he isn't really a monster. At least not in the way something like a Borg drone is.

Yeah, but it's an off the shelf mask and a pair of coveralls. Heat Miser has a more unique and custom outfit. We've all seen multiple people dressed like Myers, I don't think I've ever seen a Heat Miser costume.