baneblade

Comic history, common sense, schemantics, all point to one result: Superman wins this one.

There is no question of remorse here since both do not hold back. One comment stated that Hawkeye will strike first. Lets all remember that Queen killed even against the wish of his teammates. So, there is no advantage there to any one. What it will really come down to is experience, and opponent quality, since both have set aim, and almost identical mechanism in terms of combat : bow and arrow and other randomly used projectiles, if any. In that regard, I would have edge towards Queen, chiefly due to his experience with one opponent, Deathstroke. While Queen did not 'technically' beat him, he did match wits with him, (even though it was Stroke's insane ploy all along). Also, Queen was trained by (probably) the most combat-sound assassin around. However, since this is not your regular urban setting, a backdrop where Arrow operates best, I will call it fairly, and call it either a draw, or flip a coin. Hawkeye's up and close combat skills do outdo Arrow's, unless Arrow demonstrates them extensively in a future issue. Even though I believe Hawkeye won't be able to kill him, I do believe Arrow will take more licks, in part due to his setting in a terrain he knows full well, but can not do much to improvise in, leave for using weaponry. Hence, in a true benefit of doubt scenario, I will rather flip a coin, simply because this is an island setting and one fighter has an advantage by a hair over the other, and vice versa.

H2H : Even Crossbones: While the fact stands that Crossbones has gone toe-to-toe with Cap., it also stands that marginally, Cap mostly had the leverage. It also stands that he has been defeated by Cap/Steve Rogers. Bane: While the fact stands that Bane has battled Bats on numerous occasions, they fought to a draw, in a truly conclusive bout. The other bouts either had distractions, or an unfair advantage was involved. Smarts: Bane Crossbones has battle smarts. Period. In terms of extended smarts, he has shown fallibility in plans (Diamondback). That means his own formulated plan almost bit him in the behind. Bane's plans and ability to deduce are second to none. While he has made mistakes, they have been offset by his agendas underneath his 'agendas'. He has also been stated as a mind brilliant enough to match Batman's. If anything, I would give 'improvisation' smarts to Bane. The longer the battle goes, I opine Bane gets the advantage, and he will drag the match to see more of Bone's arsenal. He also thinks like Bats, and will probably in a worst case scenario, have cranked out simulations of attack and escape like he displayed with his battles with Bats. Strength: Bane Someone who could just break Killer Croc's arm is not an just any opponent in closed quarters. It means that along with those smarts, Bane has the strength to fuel his tactics. Crossbones' feats of strength do not outpace Bane in this regard. Bane, even sans venom,. bust through solid metal (Secret Six). That is something that lends him a huge advantage when coupled with his battle smarts and reflexes. Although Crossbones will also adapt along the fight, and know Bane's strength and speed stats, I will still lend the marginal advantage to Bane. Speed/Reflexes: Even Both have demonstrated that they have the reflexes to fight Cap and Bats. That goes to say a lot. Whether one outpaces the other marginally will depend on how they apply the other factors going into the fight Experience: Crossbones While Crossbones has been wringing it out for a lifetime, so has Bane. I am basing this to be even solely on Crossbone's single opponent in Cap., who is as credible an opponent as Bats. Even though Bane has fought more opponents singularly (Ras Al Ghul), Crossbones experience with 'guiding' a ring of henchmen through a full fledged battle puts him at par with Bane, who will rely mostly on smarts and deductive reasoning to use his pawns into the fight. Opponent Quality: Bane Crossbones' chief opponent remains Rogers. While Rogers is slated to be at par with Bats in H2H, Bats lends something extra to his battles, including cheats and a mind that always ticks in the most inconceivable ways to fend off opponents. Oft Bats found himself on the short edge, merely due to Bane's smarts. Although this is a marginal advantage, it counts heavily in this high octane bruiser. Weapons: Crossbones Bane may adapt on the fly, but Crossbones 'lives n' breathes' weapons. Even if Bane can crank it up a notch, and deduce Crossbone's ability, he will not trump him here. This is Crossbone's domain. If I base it purely on 'stats' Bane wins. However instead of purely going off stats, I base my opinion mostly on the advantage of 'brains over brawn'. Both are battle savvy, both well versed in combat. Bane is however, smarter and by extension, a tactician who will formulate more failsafes than Crossbones. His skills of observation and using what is at hand are better. Again, it is my opinion, but I believe Bane takes this, even if by margin.

1. I (for one) never stated he's a 'planet buster' from the outset. I only opined, that he 'could be', 'possibly is', since by 'extension', if he repeatedly screams (keeping in view he can shatter a mountain with but an exuded tone), he will possibly reach the core. Soil crumbles, basic fact. Hence, based on comic history, he isn't a planet buster. But by comic fact comparison, and power stats, if you do 'comic math', there is nothing saying, a character has to blow up a planet with one shot, period. Lets remember, that Bolt's and Vulcan's energy discharge contributed (among other things) toward a tear in the cosmos. That goes to say a lot, even by adding up two power sets. Simply put, and this is purely opinion, and no stated fact bro, that if Bolt focuses on a particular region, and keeps on venting those chords at it, he will do much much more than raze top soil. You also, can not underestimate his electron control re-channeled through his power. That is a factor that makes his power all the more destructive. 2. Over hype is actually an overstatement in Black Bolt's case bro. Marvel ruined this great character with a PISy take: WWH. That is why the fight was not even shown on panel, even though that BB was a Skrull. I am not (for one) saying that i do not accept the result of that fight with the Skrull, but I can always opine it as PIS. See bro, Black Bolt's power is so destructive, that Hulk withstanding him at close range, leave alone giving lame one liners like 'I wanna hear you scream' is next to impossible. (Keeping in view what's taken Hulk down before). What's to stop Bolt's sound waves knocking Hulk out, if not destroy him? I strongly opine: nothing. Hulk can't exactly close his ear lobes (like Doomsday). Bolt should win. But, with that lame take with a Skrull, Marvel 'dented' Black Bolt's character for good. No one wants to hear he was a Skrull, at the back of the head, it will always be King Bolt, just might end up that way against Hulk. Lots of opinions bro. Of course, you can argue the opinion, but don't 'stop' folks from giving em', that is what keeps the wheel churning on this site.

Again, in no scientific terms, but pure 'comic' reasoning, Black Bolt can shatter mountains with a semi-sound, with a mere whiff of breath. By extension, a scream would do double the damage. Now triple it, lets say, in a state of mental anguish. The range of the scream, and his focus would certainly not only raze the landscape, but 'almost' crack the core. See, it is soil, and when he directs that power into one direction, lets say downward, all it has to do is keep tossing aside dirt and breaking a lot of rock. I don;t say he will 'bust the planet' in one attempt or two. But repeated attempts, why not? This is by the by, aside form the topic.

Wholly agree, UNLESS.... PAK writes HULK, then Hulk will be PIS'iest one there is

Its more like; i came here to see your reputation destroyed by Greg Pak. Pak is the PISiest one there is.

I never intended to say that you are philosophical in your statement, I only intended to say that the implications are so. As for the opinions, I readily stated that we have ventured into a well of discussion, one that has no outcome. Based on opinion, it will go this way and that. I will try my best to put all in a capsule (from my side). See, Juggernaut, felt Black Tom's ailment, so much so that, out of element, he had some form of empathy that affected his 'handi work'. Ex; Not feeling the same rage toward Spiderman, even from his past embarrassment, and allowing him to take a few shots here and there: bottom line, avoiding confrontation with only the agenda to help Tom on his mind. That is feelings made incarnate. That is how comics describe them. That is in my opinion, the purpose of comics, to 'display it all for us' the character's tendencies, and emotions, and then translating them into actions for us to see. If there is an action that was even off panel, it is described, pictorially, or by reference so that we are all on the same page. Anything other than that, is only supposition, or derivation of self. Manhattan's actions simply state (to me and to no doubt an open audience), that he puts his feelings and emotions into the backdrop, and lets his deductions, reasoning and longing for balance do the work. That is why he let Silk Spectre go. That is why he let those things happen. I was only intending to put forth comic history. Let us take Batman for ex: If Batman had the power of a Lantern, do you really believe he would let people die there? Would Wolverine, or Cyclops, or even the one they call as cold as they come, Mr. Fantastic? My answer, keeping in view comic history, and not venturing into any open grounds of thought will be: Yes. They will defy the fates, and they will defy the fore tellings to save as many as they could there. Would they let a culprit walk away? Never. If your answer to any of these is yes, or even if you say that we can't know, then you are truly associating an open philosophical ground into the answer. Pure comic logic, character history and tendency state that they will each act out of heart, not merely out of reason, with a few variations, give and take. Manhattan won't. If he sees a child being crushed under a trailer, just because he sees a near future where she is involved in a crisis, he will (most likely) let it happen. Now, if he feels guilt right there, and I have openly said he does feel it, and if there is an extra iota of grief that is off panel, then it is non circumstantial. What is a factor is, what he has been known to do in a similar situation. It is a no brainer bro, he will let it slide, as long as the balance, or his derivation or reason is met. Hell, he was even 'non-feeling and totally reckless in respecting Silk Spectre's feelings, when he thought pleasure should be derived to a maximum! Who does that bro?! Only someone who does not feel, by extension. Lets say he feels, (and I think I am running a boring loop here) but it might as well not be there, since what he acts on is not what he felt, but what he did per his reasoning. I am sorry, I think I can't convince anyone of it, if they were not in the first place. I tried though. I still think this is pure opinion, although I am trying to quote as close as possible from the source material, and not my own head n; heart. It's what Manhattan would do eh?

Perhaps I should have stated a bit more accurately, or in detail Apologies there. 'Without feeling' I did not see as 'without emotion'. What you have done bro, is open the dreaded philisophical can, and which we know, is pretty much an endless well. Manhattan's emotion, and 'longing' to remain 'somewhat' in touch with his human side made him do some of the things he did, but other things that he did directly countered those emotions, making the need for precision, and following a secular tone, depending entirely on deduction, greater than emotion or longing. Ex: He let things happen that anyone else in his place would not, given that power. The emotion he felt at most was guilt, whereby he felt directly responsible for the condition of his ex, but in that also, if you check detailed commentary which none of us will be able to anymore I guess), much of that was not just due to personal feel or longing, but because his approach had a flaw. See what he said to Silk Spectre on Mars, and you will see my point. True, Moore said that Manhattan did not interfere with the 'great disaster' in part due to his realisation that he was 'smaller' than the plan of things, or God, but he also was an emotionless fella, who let the events play out, choosing the 'balance' over life. Choosing calculations, over anguish, or choosing the derived best option over gut feeling. Hence, it is not really about whether he can or can't feel, but what his next and most likely action is, making the feeling or his emotion useless and only a gauging commodity. Ex: Batman chose to fly out of Gotham the moment his heart could not comprehend the drenching loss he faced in wake of the quake. He came back the moment he got his bearings back, and re-tuned his heart to withstand the anguish and put the need of the people first. If Manhattan was in his place, he would fly, or stay, based on his derivations next, only after going through his 'feelings'. Yet whatever he chose, fly or stay, would be final. Even if you cite Silk Spectre convincing him to go to earth, leaving Mars behind, it was not her at all, not in the least. Moore cited that as God, and an epiphany, that enlightened Manhattan and showed him his 'lesser place', and showed him a small definition of 'miracle'. Even upon going to earth, Manhattan left alive ozzy, killed 'Sach, and let the disaster happen. Hence, calculations, not feeling drives this cold hearted fella.

Realistically, and per stated powers, Bolt should with a scream, knock Hulk out. Even if Hulk has regenerative ability, his senses leaving him does not count in that. If Bolt's scream could enters Hulk's head, it would do more than just shatter his eardrums. It would affect his neurons and motor functions long enough to render him unconscious, if not kill him. Not only than, since Hulk is not Doomsday, this exercise would just repeat itself when Hulk woke up and charged again. However, with comic PIS, and a history that severely does injustice to this regal character, Bolt will lose, as the fight will occur off panel, and then lame excuses will come up that oops, Bolt is not King Bolt, but a knock off Bolt. etc. In my opinion, Bolt will win, by KO, if not victory by slaying. Per comic PIS, Hulks wins.

Braniac will win this fight but not in the 'slugfest method that folks are gearing toward'. See, Braniac per the setup, wins, not just by stats. 1) Braniac, per the setup, knows Apocalypse, which is why he discloses the quick fact sheet to him. Apocalypse does not know him. That means that Braniac's various contingencies are already in effect when he lands there. He does not have to 'pound Apocalypse to win'. He will instantly send out his lifeless drones first, overtake the information grid of the city (if not the whole planet), giving Apocalypse enough distraction. Plus, as he 'foresaw' this, being a Coluan, he will most definitely have fail safes in place to deal with Apocalypse 'mind games'. 2) Apocalypse will try to approach him and pound at him. If you recall, and this is braniac 13, he is almost untouchable. In his slugfest with Superman, who I think is physically faster and tougher than Apocalypse in a head on attack, Superman's blows just glanced right from Braniac's surface. The reason explained was not just because Braniac 13 was tougher, but a bring that utilized the spectra of different dimensions of existence, drawing from them, and existing in them at once. He just could not be touched. By the time Superman figured out how to beat him, with much aid from backup sources not used routinely, but which knew Braniac well enough to chase him off, Braniac left a mark, a huge one, where the state of Metropolis did not change. Sorry, Apocalypse is powerful, but his lack of knowledge and Braniac 13's 'foreseen' confrontation with him, will see Braniac 13 get the first round, if not the full war. In any case, as comic history had repeatedly had it, even if Apocalypse got the advantage, realistically, Braniac 13 would escape with much valuable sources and knowledge to confront the mutant another day. But ah, The Horsemen are another factor. Until it is substantiated how powerful each of them has really become, and what proximity they are in to help Apocalypse directly, I would assume per comic history, that Braniac 13 has already done his homework,. penetrated the grid, of the planet, and will give them enough to deal with. However, till we can not determine these factors, Apocalypse is on his own. (Also, lets not forget, taht each Horseman's powers will only explain what they can accomplish: Apocalypse's experiments have always had good and bad results, ex: though with a mad on to kill, the writers themselves explained that both Wolverine and Hulk were also 'sluggish' under his control). Keeping in view all this, lets not forget Braniac's biggest and most unpleasant surprise, his reduction tech. He is after all, here to enslave and miniaturize a city, (speaking comic history again). His victory therefore lies in realistic terms, achieving that end, not going into a fist fight. In that , the setup goes fully in favour of Braniac 13. Not obliteration, but acheiving his objective.

First most, there is no stated feat where Juggernaut was 'replaced' into an instant of advantage by Cyttorak. Ex: World War Hulk, Ex: Spiderman. It would seem that Cyttorak at the time was busy. If we simply take character history into account, then certainly Juggernaut will die, even if momentarily, and maybe long enough for Manhattan to leave, and Juggs to get resurrected another place at another time. Lets say for the benefit of doubt, that Cyttorak does indeed 'instantly effect' Juggs resurrection/material being replacement, then we go into the 'marginal' advantage factor. Juggs at the core, somewhere down there can be 'bothered' mentally if not physically, he can have cravings, can have 'feelings'. Manhattan is beyond any of those. All he has to do is, after effecting Juggs demise twice, or thrice, figure out that something is helping him reform, start a loop, and then watch endlessly as Juggs gets moshed, then resurrected. Hence, if the factor is who beats whom, then even marginally Manhattan wins. Hence, if the factor would have been strictly about who leaves the room, then 1) Assuming Cyttorak is all that 'involved', it is a draw 2) Realistically taking comic history and seeing delays in Cyttorak's involvement, (other than powering Juggs), then Manhattan leaves the room and wins. If the factor is who simply wins: 1) Taking comic history in queue, Manhattan takes it in a blink 2) Giving a huge benefit of doubt to Juggs and Cyttorak's relationship, Manhattan still wins by margin and relative comparative factors. More times than not thus, Manhattan wins.

Goku wins, again. Ohhhhhh the irony, ohhhhhhh the perfidy!!!!

That image in your post, LOL.

Bane was stated to be at Batman's level even at this point in time. Those are scribe views, and were even stated in newspapers, (following scribe views also, of course), as this was the 2nd round of 'tragic' news from DC after Superman's death and was obviously big enough to hit mainstream newspapers and even the TV. Jean Paul was the only one who he did not beat (and so couldn't Bruce even after elevated training from Shiva) due to a mix of underestimation, and Paul's driven brutal approach in combat. Bane became 'better yet' following those events, so did Batman. That is why, when they had their first re-match, they went to a draw. (Well, till Bane took the smarter road of distraction seeing that it was to no avail to fight right there and then). I did take into account the fact that this was very 'Knightfallish', even if I missed that fact between the lines of the setup. Cheers.

You are incorrect there bro. Superman has used his full potential. Why do you think he sundipped in a few seconds. That is something that did require 'full speed ahead'. When he donned the cosmic armour no other being on earth was supposed to be able to withstand, his full potential of endurance came into view. Also, after a sundip, which was nearly only a few secs., Superman devastated Braniac with one thrust. And that Braniac version was coupled with Imperiex' energies, a feat near impossible for others. And yes bro, Supes can take anything Goku will throw at him. Lets not forget, on top of his more evolved, expansive powerset, he is the smarter, experienced, level headed combatant, even though Goku may be a disciplined and smart fighter. On top of that even, there is the 10 min. sundip. It will literally slaughter Goku,

Bane is dangerous even without venom pumps. The venom only turns it up several notches. Even without venom, Bane held out against Batman to a draw, (true he's been knocked around by him too, but he's also pulled an even fight). His prowess, adaptability, and willingness to throw anything else in harm's way to distract Murdoch. This scenario goes totally against DD. - Bane is 'drawing him' out. As if Bane's physical abilities weren't enough to engage DD, this scenario has Bane plotting it out, and will most likely first use an array of explosions, kidnappings, brutal murders, to get DD on the run, and then hunt him down when he's at his most vulnerable. Bane will (a'la Knightfall), keep DD too distracted, too exhausted to let him even get in decent punches here. - This is a first time confrontation, at Bane's time and Bane's place, DD is severely disadvantaged. - DD could with his radar sense see that Bane is watching, and could be aware that there is a lumbering looming and yet observing opponent. (I am throwing that as a forced advantage or saving grace for DD here) Even then, it will at best, buy DD precious few minutes before Bane gets the drop on him - Clearly, Bane is also smarter. He was smart enough to deduce Batman's abilities, not to mention his ID. He will either uncover Murdoch, or gauge his abilities from the get go, seeing his over the top reflexes in the heat of battle. - Scenario wise, ability wise, smarts intact, Bane has everything going for him here; DD is pretty much fighting in a Knight-fall-esque setup, that will see him lose in a final, brutal encounter. By the by, good setup.

Hackneyed match. Superman wins.

While the setup is writ well, it is a bit lopsided as it clearly and readily gives Doom the advantage. Prep, plus extras. Doom will take it. That's for the match As for some of the other points randomly mentioned by fellow ferretters on this post: 1) Beyonder is powerful but also one fo the biggest fools I have ever come across in the villainous gallery 2) Adam's bloodline doesn't necessarily mean 'blood' physically. Bloodline meant to state the heritage of the family with regards to assuming those powers generation to generation. Physical blood has nothing to do with it. (Unless DC does something stupid) 3) With an upfront fight, I still won't say Doom will just go down, but he definitely won't win. Adam has shown a higher than normal resistance both telepathic and magical, especially when angered. His power grows, and so do his other faculties. All in all, Doom will take this, because he has done his math. In true comic implication, that blood thing won't work, but per this setup it did, so best of luck to Adam hitting a hasty retreat 3)

Yup bro, and fandom is what it was, and always will be: unreasonable

Promoting the non-ethical method of playin' JJE eh? (That's Judge, Jury, Executioner). if everyone thought this way bro, imagine where society would be right now. I see what you are trying to say, but that's one thing that makes the S man 'human' and vulnerable, his moral code.

If you recall, Sentry vs Hulk became a 'draw', technically speaking. That was Sentry holding back (per Greg Pak), citing that he didn't go over to the other side, like Void. Most of that matchup was a strength/slugfest test. In that, Superman's opponent list comprises a more 'powerful' opponent; say, Superboy Prime. Hulk's doesnot. Superman's list therefore, and experience also has faster opponents (Doomsday, Darkseid, etc.) who match reflexes with him routinely. Hulk's doesn't. There is more than one factor here, that suggests that Hulk will never get to that level of rage he needs to dent Superman.

Two things work against Vega here: His vanity, and subsequent instant loss of composure the moment he is struck, and Scandal's healing factor. It has also not been determined what skills she houses, and for how long (yet). Math is: Her powers and sizable experience trump Vega's formidable but conflicted close range skills. Scandal will take this.

The fight is of all things, coming down to a close range tussle. Prometheus stomps.

Grodd is more the deciding factor than anything else. Add in the fact, that the Rogues are more co-ordinated and have dealt with Flash most f their criminal lives, the 6 go down, quite hard.