baneblade

Assumption is dangerous bro. I did not assume anything. Zeus does not a particular 'standard' medium have. He's been in Marvel, the movies, literature, DC, and perhaps even other comic publishers. Seid has a 'standard', the mainstream comic version is THE version. When you deal with the stats this way, I also assumed Zeus at his strongest. ANd then what is he at his strongest? Which feat? I would think the feat from Immortals where he simply vanquishes Apollo as punishment is an impressive feat, and one that Seid can easily ape. I am not saying in the same manner, all I am saying is, Seid has weilded power beyond a 'greater' 'God' in my opinion, one that actually created him! Source knew about him, Zeus is likely to be ignorant of him. He will almost definitely underestimate him (mostly does his opponent, leave for Clash or Wrath of the Titans). It is only logical that against Seid, he acts within his 'characteristics'. Again, clarifying, it is not the power that beats Zeus, it is Seid's machinations. If schemes and power takeovers have worked against Zeus in multiple occasions, Seid is but a smidge above that when you consider contingencies.

I could have agreed with that point on Zeus, if it wasn't for the multiple fallibilities he has shown in different media (DC comics, literary works, movies etc.). Even that point aside, Darkseid not known for his level-headedness is quite incorrect bro. His level-headedness was what brought him to outsmart his own 'maker'. A maker that in my honest opinion is past Zeus in smarts and even power. If anything, Zeus has every fallibility that Source had and that is stretching it. Seid literally played that chess on a grand scale. If not for PIS, he had actually triumphed in Final Crisis, again, past the Source. I think with that experience and fail-safe mindset, Zeus has more on the plate here than he can truly digest.

Yes, he was but it just does not end there. He was not 'enhanced pre-conforntation', but became enhanced essentially when he got in proximity of the Source. That was the whole point: He would not face Source head on, a being in my estimate smarter, and more powerful than Zeus. With Zeus, and his destructive legendary temper, Seid's machinations would get an A, as I deduce honestly, that he would not take Zeus head-on, if at all Zeus was more powerful.

What everyone missed, (or I missed if someone stated) is that Darkseid took a being far more powerful than Zeus. Zeus is a deity at best, and has a history in various appearances and media, to wield a power-set that is at best 'varying'. At best, his most effective application of power has been to blow things in combat, and transport himself from one place to another, or simply vanquish a lesser God or being, again with the same power set, his God-endowed thunder/energy/signature. Darkseid faced off the Source, who single-handedly created the New Genesis universe; and single-handedly wiped it out as well. Seid did not match his power, but contained it, and with a little experiment, took it for himself. It was the comic-block of 'hooks' that prevented him to wield it onward and win. He didn't use a contraption borrowed, but had a 'concoction' of sorts prepared with his brains, and used it to win the fight. The Source, need I say is also 'smart' and balanced in thinking. The only loophole was his over confidence. That was one loophole that Seid well knew and exploited. With Zeus, and his short temper, one that is synonymous between his versions and various media, (leave for the Clash of the Titans 'docile Zeus'), Seid will have a fab time manipulating him. Seid knows full well what Zeus can do head on. In real comic terms, don't expect Seid to rush in like a fool and overpower the greek gods, but plan, execute a sequence of plans, involving perhaps greek gods' neglected underlings even, and then win the battle and Olympus. It is true, it will happen, (and as Sirmethos pointed out, actually did on a certain scale).

The one 'Prime' thing everyone on this post has either forgotten or does not know, or I have skimmed through and missed someone else mentioning, is that Prime just does not have 'strength, heat vision and blow this n' that' and vulnerability and speed, and regeneration', but energy absorption on a scale never seen before in the 'Superman' family. Geoff Johns stated clearly, and it is probably even mentioned now on power scale stats, that Prime is a being 'beyond realities'. He is not your regular Superman or Superman on Sun juice; he is Superman times 3; This means most forms of energy, and even mystics are redundant against him. Ex: Mr. Mxzyptlk's magic, a Guardian's full discharge of energy, and for that matter Monarch's was unable to kill him. While Bill has proven to be tough, and yes, packs varied powers, he has not shown that 'range' yet. I honestly do not know if Bill will ever show that range. I think we have seen all there is to be seen about him, and Prime still has no 'ceiling', according to Johns. Hence, Prime is more, much more than Bill can muster up or throw at him. Lets say Bill scores with a knock-out. In honesty, I would count a true rumble to be one where the opponent is down for the count. In that regard, Bill won't stand a chance. I just think Bill does not pack enough punch to take out a being who traverses realities, inadvertently keeps absorbing and transforming energy, and that too, various types of energy. In honest take, Prime will take this, whether by 'real' application, or on paper.

Lookin' forward to it myself bro. One of these posts, one of these days, an' we will be into it.

Key stranglehold bro. Been away a while. Hope all is well n' hale with you

Just to add 2 cents in: is it possible to consider these folks on the list? Katana Hawkeye Black Widow Ozymandias

Shiva, is still from a Batman title bro. Plus, Iron fist has 'powers' as they are a huge part of his 'eventual' wrap-ups in a fight. Maybe you might want to re-consider the list again, for martial artists without powers.

Where is Karate Kid on this list? Wouldn't be complete with out Karate Kid.

Well writ Legacy bro. THESE X-men do not stand a chance. Best and Dust (might) make it out alive solely based on experience with varied challenges and Beast's smarts. It is either of two choices for Beast: Die or escape. As for Stroke, he wins in two situations: If he kills even two of them, and escapes (which he will), or kills em' all period. For the X-men, (These ones) there is no win situation here. Most of that is due to their 'unfamiliarity' with a conniving, calculating, consistently 'adapting' opponent like Slade. He will probably have them run into each other within the first few seconds; enough for Beast to decipher that they need to get away from this situation pronto. DS either by default, or by full ownage.

It is a fairly simple solution: Rider wins. I would dare say even hands down. Why? Because while a 'zombified mind' Dante was appointed by sick Lucifer and given an incentive and packs the extras, Rider has been appointed by 'much more' than just Lucifer. Rider's powers are limitless, if the object of his 'vengeance' is guilty. In this case, even if Dante does not have a mind intact, it is still a sowing ground for Lucifer's bidding. That is all Rider needs to expend as much power as he needs to effect one of many of his 'tools' to win this. Rider all the way.

Superman, (especially in recent outings) will be just too much for Goku to handle. Hackneyed fight. Can't rate since bro who posted this didn't know to post this kind of thing in the Rumbles. Cheers bros.

Hi there bro Deltaforce. I had been stressing on some points here all along. Having mutliple character's fighting prowess pinned did not help him. It happened a few times, with Moon Knight, with Punisher, even DD or Spiderman, whose own styles he had pinned down. Hence I have stressed on that pivotal point that makes a doorway of possibility; or a loophole, that Taskmaster, in spite of those mutliple abilities went down, to a fighter who did not have multiple abilities, leave alone did not expect the attack. Thereby, stating that against someone like Bats, he'll just win, is not a good deduction. Bats practically 'beat himself' when he dropped someone like Promotetheus; there is no solid statement that HE WILL fall to Taskmaster. I am only doing the math, and not just adding my opinion. Batman is as smart a combatant and as improvising as Taskmaster will ever have faced. Those odds, plus Bats has Damian, at leats should have stopped the statements that Taskmaster will just win, in spite of him faltering to lesser (even stated officially as lesser at the time of publication of those storylines). I just do not see him simply winning. Least reasonably, I would have said I'll flip a coin. Most reasonably, Bats will take it. Good debate going bros. (Even after the match has ended).

Couldn't help seeing this again. Your list literally made me crack up bro. LOL.

Nicely done. By the by, who's brobrobrobro? LOL.

As for the matchup: 1) Baller saying that Damien is useless just about explains his own question about 'us' ignoring the stats of Tasky. Damien is NEVER USLESS ANYWHERE. He may have the impulsiveness of a brat, but as rightly (again) pointed out by Legacy, his character development has gone much farther since then. 2) Batman doesn't know K'un L'un, but so he didn't know Karate Kid's much much enhanced fighting style(s), or didn't know the fighting style of the Amazons. It is only subjective Nova bro, that it is a matter of a few seconds with someone the caliber of bats to improvise by taking a lick, or watching a feint. It is moreover, the wielder of the art who we are questioning about. Tasky. My humble two cents again: (and I know comicbookfan and Legacy X have hit good points, so my points are something on the side, or in addition) - If Tasky has highlights, he has lows which truly outshine those highlights; one of those lows ALWAYS, is when a fighter loses to a LESSER fighter, and that too either with minimal distraction or plain outright, it puts in 'degrees' that can just not be ignored if he is fighting someone like Bats. Example scenario: Think about it, when he faced off Moonknight at his lowest ebb, he had several fighting skills, most notably Cap's and Panther's down and still went down. Same goes when he was almost killed by Punisher. - Baller bro has concerns that Bats has lows, but apart from Prometheus (who is consistently tearing apart profiles as highlighted rightly by Legacy bro) nothing has been stated so far. Plus, Bats put Prometheus down in future outings, making the initial win a bit convoluted as in, Bats improvised even over Prometheus, who had even updated his 'skill database' on Bats. That meant that Bats not only adjusted even his own fighting style over Prometheus' improvisation, but literally 'beat himself'. Hence bros, one may wield a fighting discipline, it his inner ability and his improvisation from opponent to opponent that matters. Moreso, it is his history that announces aloud what he is truly, solidly capable of. Bottom line (trying this again bros.): Taskmaster has a wide range: high to low. With someone like Batman, I would never ever go out and say: Tasky will use his accumulated skills to simply beat him. At a far stretch, I will flip a coin. At a crunch, I will play down stats and either come up to a hard fought, dragged out win or draw or loss, and with Damien thrown in, I will especially begin to reconsider, if Tasky can keep up long enough, leave alone win. Bats affects his opponents like no one does (my opinion, but one I know that is projected loudly by scribes from both companies even). My take is Bats will win in a hard fight. Out of 5, I will give Bats 3 chances. With Damien, I won't even consider it. The only factor favouring Tasky would be storyline convenience IF, (HUGE IF) Damien errs and is taken hostage. Smartly, IFS should not be even considered, and thereby, my take is Bats team all along. The consolation is, (out of a lost respect for Tasky), Tasky could escape, or blindside them to vanish. That's about it. He is not winning this.

I agree bro. Fully agree.

What I see my good bros. is that we are trying to swerve around things here: Legacy X rightly gave instances where Bats improvises about par. Whether Kid Flash didn't manouver well, or was duped; whichever way you cook it, Bats played it that way. That is the exact thing we are trying to stress. Tasky ain't that. He has proven to be fallible. I will try to put it into perspective as best as I can here: Tasky's range is too wide in terms of effectiveness and fallibility. Where he faced off 2 Caps, and downed some credible fighters, he also lost to fighters who he wasn't supposed to lose to. Whether he chose not to do this or that works only and only if it is part of the plan. If it isn't and its actually working against him, then it becomes an excuse. Lets not state what Moonknight is as bro Baller said, bottom line, he was stated to be not at par with Tasky, but still beat him batty. Punisher is not half as credible a H2H fighter as Deadpool or well, Tasky himself, yet managed to drive a knife through Tasky. That shouldn't have happened. Deadpool may be a good fighter, but Tasky is still stated as above him. He still fell to him, even with Pool's self imposed handicap. My rule: These are not moments you just overlook because he has done something good. You consider them, and when I do, I do the math and see that he is really good, but he's also been beaten, by lesser. My derivation: With such far ranging stats on either end of the bank, I WILL NEVER GO OUT AND SAY; OH, TASKY WILL ROLL OVER BATS (and with Damian in tow, no less). To be fair, I will perhaps say that I will flip a coin. My personal take is that Bats is a badder, more accurate and smarter hitter. I go with him off the 'bat'. Your take should in fairness be: Tasky's done good, but he has his downers. An' this is Bats, call him overrated, or right on the ball, he's probably the smartest innovative fighter who Tasky will face. A coin flip would have been fair, instead of the statement that Tasky will just casually do it. And lets all keep the respect going here. Good debate going bros.

In addition to what bro comicbookfan said: 1) Taskmaster losing to Storm is not bad, if he faced her head on. Where were his special 'escapist skills'? Why did he stare at her power build up, and then get crushed by it? What happened with the Avengers? What happened with Moonknight? What happened with Deadpool? All I see is one bottom line: Where he extensively planned and marginally succeeded, he failed miserably on these other counts. That is not something I can say for Deathstroke or even Bane. 2) Batman being outsmarted? Go ahead bro and list something for me, where he was outsmarted in the course of a plan, or battle. I know this: even if you do manage it, its gonna take you some serious digging. Kindly do not even bother to list the 'R.I.P' storyline, as per Morrison himself, it has a convoluted end, suggesting both his unpreparedness, and his non-preparedness, which by the way is attributed to his 'blind love'. 3) Smart is where smart counts bro. As comicbookfan said, 'smarter' than Pym, I agree. Bats is not smarter than Pym. A better battle strategist than Pym? Yes he is. That is what I have implied by smarts all along, just in case I didn't come across clearly. Also bro, kindly do not mention me as being anti this or that. Even if you didn't imply it, it sounded like that to me.

Alright bro. Your opinion n' mine on two different ends. Respect.

Not in this time and universe bro, not in any for that matter. Respect n' regards.

Baller bro. I know it is only opinion at the end of the day, but in my mind, it counts. I know Taskmaster's feats. I have only stated the fallibility because they are severely undermining and conflicting with his history and his billing. He is an escape artist along with being a H2H fighter. In the many nooks and crannys of the broken city where the heavy sparring was going on, it should have been easy for him to elude the build up and vanish. But no, Marvel had to use him as fodder and show an out of character fear and complete loss of brain functions to be manhandled by Storm. My questions are these bro: 1) He has repeatedly shown that any tiny piece of the plan deviating means a loss (Moonknight?) 2) He has indeed fought these heroes to a standstill, but when his chips were (mostly) heavier than theirs, not at random or even necessarily unprepared. On one or two instances, yes, he displayed impressive ability, which is why I came to respect the character. 3) DD, Spiderman, Cap are not higher in intellect than Batman. His string of 'intelligence driven' contingencies off or on the fly, or even his ability to innovate with various forms of tech, and even make it, trumps them all combined. This is a gray area where we are obviously disagreeing, and should leave it there. I am only doing the math, looking at character history more than anything. Bats is usually the one to fall in the end even if the chips are down; don;t know if I can say the same for Spiderman. Whether that comes from their difference in roles driven by power sets or not, it is a stat in favour of Bats, period. 4) Taskmaster's sparring results while 'hopeful' were severely conflicted by his losses, (Moonknight, Avengers, Deadpool) whereby each instant conflicted his established abilities. My take would have been: I would have left the character's integrity intact, not broken it down by folks he is supposed to trump. Sorry, Bats has no conflicting moments as these. Losses for him stem from being blindsided, or ganged up on, or extensively pre-planned setups. Can never say the same for Taskmaster, who inspite of extensive billing has been manipulated (Civil War), beaten by lesser (Moonknight), and has seen his planning fall apart completely with one chunk going loose. Humbly, it is my opinion that way bro. Always good debating with you though it has been a long time.

Hey Baller bro. I would like to agree with you, but a merc. that has the insane knowledge and ability to adapt to a fighting style instantly could only go down in the most casual manner due to 2 things: 1) PIS 2) He is 'susceptible Susceptibility is what Bats thrives on. Take Deathstroke for instance; he is susceptible, but his list of losses (mostly) come out of team-ups or blindsides. There is no 'embarrassing' loss that was not explained or covered up. It just puts a strong noticeable dent in a character's billing when you show him go down to even an equal, the way Taskmaster did to Pool. Not only that, in the Civil War storyline, it was quite nonsensical, that where he could have easily 'escaped' Sue Richards, he was just dumbstruck to move, letting her roll all over him. I am not saying Taskmaster is a casual everyday butt wipe, but I am saying he has shown a strong susceptibility, and that is the window Bats thrives on. Bats is not Deadpool, he calculates, schemes 10 steps ahead at all times. Even the new Bats (Grayson) has somewhat adapted to this method. You just can't say that Bats will go down to Tasky because Tasky has those capabilities. You have to match up to outings, and experiences and then decide where the fight is likely headed. I am with Bats in this fight, even if I count out Damian. Sorry, call me frustrated with the way characters are treated, but I lost my faith in Taskmaster during his last whimsical loss. I know its not fair to him, but it will sure as hell not be fair period for us to use that 'over-billing' and make him steamroll someone like Bats who is probably the smartest opponent Taskmaster will ever face.

Sometimes, there are moments in comic history that just dispel myths or long standing perceptions in a few panels. Tasky fell victim to just a scenario. This is my honest take: Taskmaster (like many B-level but billed as over the top villains) is overrated. I regarded him as a big deal. Until I saw him lose (rather embarrassingly too) to Deadpool who 'outshone' his 'copying' skills handily before putting him in an embarrassing setup and embarrassing trap. Everything about it was embarrassing. While I personally found it 'distasteful' for Tasky to go down like that, it was documented, and on record, that a fighter like Deadpool who had a long hard fight with Bullseye (who is rated easily and perhaps rather wrongly too, below Taskmaster in H2H and close range fighting) out did Taskmaster rather embarrassingly, rather easily. Lets not even go into schemantics here. Here in this setup (which is OK by the way), we are here talking about a duo who are absolute in H2H, close range/long range combat, and while Damian is still young, there is Bats. I actually do not believe that there are folks here who are dispatching the duo like it was bread n' butter. That said; Taskmaster will not win. He will lose. The only compensation or benefit of doubt I can give is this: 1) If Damian acts out of line (which he has tendency to do, to be fair), and gets taken hostage or on knife point, Tasky wins. 2) There is no other scenario here for Taskmaster to bring to the table what can take Bats out. My two cents, Bats wins, except only for the rather huge consideration of an erring Damian, in which case it would be a cheap win for Tasky. Since that is only a 'supposition', the technical win belongs to Bats and Co.