The Void

Hey a fellow Kanye West fan. Representing Chi-town. I'm going to like all your post for now on. As for the match...Batman wins.

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Batman only beat a mind controlled Shiva.

Good posts baneblade.

Who the hell said I was downplaying or ignoring both Elektra and DD. I actually gave round one to DD. As for Elektra, I was ONLY focusing on her fighting skills. Its fact that Elektra's fighting skills are NOT on par with Shiva. But I never said Shiva was superior to Elektra overall... No..I am not incapable of grasping anything. You guys are the ones trying to use Shiva's fight with Tim as a low showing for Shiva. If you count that as a win for Tim. Whatever, but don't try to use it as Tim being a better fighter than Shiva or a low showing for Shiva. I wouldn't even call that PIS, because again Shiva wasn't even serious at all. I ALREADY seen that post and I even said that second fight with them was irrelevant. You guys atre keep thinking I am saying Shiva is overall superior to Elektra or someone. But really I was only talking about fighting skills. Which this match, especially round two will mostly be about. I know Shiva can lose to someone that's physically stronger than her. She can lose to Batman, due to Batmans intellgence and equipement. But the thing is nether Batman, Elektra or DD are better fighters/martial artiststhan Shiva. Round 1-DD Round 2-Shiva Get what I am saying? No one is downplaying anything. You guys are just missing mt point The fact is Shiva is more skilled than both Elketra and Daredevil when it comes to martial arts. She has practiced more styles than both Elektra and Daredevil and has actually completed most her training's. Lets take away Elektras abilities/powers, equipment and level her down to just peak human and only let her rely on her martial arts skills and let her fight Lady Shiva. Who would win? That's my point. No one is downplaying anything...Shiva is a better martial artist than Elektra and she has fought many top tier DC martial artists like Richard Dragon,David Cain, Cassandra Cain, Shadow Dragon,Nightwing, Batman,etc... I'm going to bed.

I can't care what Methos or anyone said. I already said this million times that I was only comparing the fighting skills of Elektra and Shiva, not any other other Elketra's abilities. I ONLY said Shiva is a way better martial artist than Elketra. You and others were the ones that brought up stuff like Elektra's mental abilities. Again this fight will mostly be H2H, especially the second round. And I already told you about the situation between Tim and Shiva.

Its funny you talk about people ignoring stuff, when you guys are the ones ignoring the context of the scans between Shiva and Tim. Again the first time Shiva was training Tim and Shiva wasn't even serious or was trying to really hurt him. The second time Tim was enhanced. Both are irrelevant. So who's ignoring what? We brought up Supergirl because you guys tried to bring up Shivas losts and DD wins.

If you count that as a win then whatever. I can't change your mind. When Shiva was actually training him, even giving him advice and not going all out on him. No Shiva did not underestimate him..She actually told Tim that people will underestimate him due to his size. The only advantage DD has on Shiva is his equipment and radar senses. I actually gave round one to him. Shiva too can take DD down.

Elaborate please. Okay. That was my point in the first place.

The point I am trying to make is...Elektra developed most of her time into being a Ninja. While focused on developing her H2H skills. Elektra didn't ONLY focus on her H2H skill, but Shiva did. Shiva put more effort into developing her H2H skills. That's the point I am trying to make. When has Elektra trained Wolverine? I disagree with them having similar personalities. And Elketra struggled with Bullseye. I don't think she's Marvel's best Martial Artist if she struggles with Bullseye. Elektra is not even close to being the top female Marvel artist in Marvel. That title is only for Mantis and Gamora. Was that crossover canon...Before you even say anything. Again you like others still haven't answered my question. What are Daredevil and Batman even in???

Why are people still listing Shiva losing to Tim Drake, when I already explained what happened between the two with scans...Also Shiva has beaten David Cain when she was pregnant with Cass. David Cain is no joke himself. He has stalemated with Batman. And I know for sure that he would give DD a hard fight. The only time David Cain beat Shiva was when Shiva was ill experienced and David Cain had a group with him. David basically had prep and he had her off guard. Also Batman only beat a mind controlled Shiva. Listing Shivas defeat to Cassandra Cain is not even saying much. Cassandra Cain easily outclasses both Daredevil and Elketra when it comes to H2H. And Shiva has stalemated with Cass before. How about I bring up Shiva humiliating Supergirl. She even beat Shadow dragon who is faster than the speed of sound. Also Richard Dragon is one of DC's top Martial artist. IMO I think he is way better than Batman. He has even defeated Bronze Tiger. That's not even a low showing for Shiva. I doubt DD comes close to him. Here's the whole fight between him and Shiva: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2948263-2390627509-71612.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2948264-5314092866-71613.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2948265-6350312586-71613.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2948266-3897384046-71613.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2948267-3597716423-71613.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/2948268-7126491461-71613.jpg

First of...Body reading language is not a mental abilitie. I get where you're coming from, but I am ONLY addressing if Elektras H2H skills are on par with Shiva's. Because this fight between Daredevil and Lady Shiva will come down to who is the best H2H fighter. And people claimed that Daredevil will see Shiva as Elektra. So I am asking who is Elketra on par with Shiva when coming to pure H2H skill. I don't care about any other of Elketra's abilities. They are irrelevant to me. Shiva's body reading language is a part of her fighting skill. As for best Martial artist on the planet. I know what you meant. But has Elektra even stalemated with people such as Iron Fist or Shang Chi? Who are the best on Marvel Earth. The most skilled fighter Elektra has beaten was Taskmaster and her win had nothing to do with skill. Meanwhile she has struggled with people such as Hawkeye(Bullseye). Who is not even on the list of Marvels top fighters.

yeah that was my point.... 1. Personality wise they are different. 2. Again the Hand is a Ninja group. Elketra has mostly developed her skills on being a Ninja and dealing with weapons such a sai's. When fighting Elektra mostly uses them. Blade is a skilled martial artist, but he is not the best and he mostly developed his skills on swordsmanship. The same is said for Elektra and her ninja skills/weapons. Where Shiva put most her effort on development her H2H skills. And training top DC martial artists like Bruce Wayne and Cassandra Cain. 3. You never went in details. You said DD will see Shiva as Elektra? How? When Elketra was considered a love interest for DD and he has held back against her. When? I can post scans on multiple people saying Shiva is the most dangerous female on the planet. Elektra for the most part has been a anti-hero. While Shiva has most the time been a full blown villain. Their personalities are different. Shiva is wiser, more experienced and more intelligent. I just want you to tell me how much do they have in common. How exactly? You people never state how exactly are they even. In what...? Fighting skills? Intelligence? Tactics? Equipment?

When has it been stated that Elketra is one of the best Martial Artist on the planet? I know she has been stated to be the best Ninja/Assassin. Also what does her mental abilities or any of her abilities besides her H2H skill has to do with anything. I'm not addressing any of those, but her Martial arts/H2H skills. People on this thread said DD will see Elektra as Shiva? How? They are completely different. What does Elketra's mental abilities or peak human abilities have to do with anything? The point is...Is Elketra as skilled as Shiva when coming to H2H. And this fight between Daredevil and Shiva will come down to who is the more skilled H2H fighter and that advantage goes to Shiva. While DD has his equipment and Radar senses for his advantage. And Shiva knows pressure points to and IMO I've seen better PP feats from Shiva. And Shiva masters different techniques yearly... I'll be fair and probably give round one to DD due to his radar senses.

Being a Ninja is totally different to being a Martial artist...To my knowledge Ninjas mostly focus on weapons/stealth and use martial arts as a secondary. Elketra mostly uses ninja weapons and sometimes her powers, while Shiva is strictly H2H and focused more on developing it more compared to Elketra.. Elektra hasn't even completed most of her martial arts training. Elektra's training as a ninja wasn't even complete and after being resurrected by the Hand the Chaste rejected her altogether. So how do they compare when coming to H2H? The personalities between Shiva and Elketra is so different that its not even funny. Their personalities are DIFFERENT. Elketra is not as ruthless as Shiva. Of course Elektra will have to be ruthless since she is a ninja. While Shiva was actually a villain that wouldn't even mind killing hero's and those close to her. Shiva was stated to be the most dangerous female in the DC universe by many heros/villains, even Batman stated so. And what does psychic ability and chi scream have to do with anything? I'm talking strictly H2H which this fight between Shiva and DD will mostly be about. You guys said Elketra is similar to Shiva, but how??? Their personalities and H2H skills are totally different. Also not only does Shiva have more experience than her, but Shiva is much more wiser and has shown better intelligence. Yet those same people can not proof that DD is as skilled as Batman when coming to Martial arts. Again to even say Elektra is comparable to Shiva...You will have to prove Elketra is as skilled as Batman when it comes to MA and that also goes for DD. Not saying DD loses this in a stomp. Because he does have his equipment and radar senses. How the heck will DD see Shiva as Elektra. When Elketra was love interest for him and he usually tries not to give his all to her.

Please tell me how Elketra is comparable to Shiva. Elketra is a ninja, while Shiva is a skilled martial artist and assassin. Two different things. Not only that but Shiva is much more ruthless than her and has trained far longer than her. Also saying that Elketra is Marvels top MA is not even enough. Is Elektra even comparable to Batman? DD will not any similarities between Elektra and Shiva. Both have completely different fighting techniques. Does Elektra know body reading languages that is on the level of Shiva's? The only similarities is that they're females. -__-

Shiva and Elektra are not comparable...

Yes a sparring match! Not a serious FIGHT. Yes...I have payed attention to the WHOLE issue since I have posted the scans multiple times. Lady Shiva was basically training him and I have proof. Tim Drake even stated "Next time she'll have me for lunch." Again she was basically training him, I doubt she was even fighting serious since she was even giving him some advice before the fight even began. And Tim distracted her with his staff. Again...In the scans you can read for yourself that she was even giving him advice/tips. Which proves that she was training him in a way. I don't care what the handbook really states since there are scans that challenge it. Show me Tim beating Shiva not holding back or not enhanced by some drug. The scans that I posted does not in anyway prove Tim is as skilled as Shiva, but that he can get lucky shots when distracting her and when she is not even going at her fullest. Batman can easily do the same thing. But lets see what happens when both Tim and Batman have to face her in a real H2H fight and Shiva not holding back. Also need I remind you that Daredevil's own trainer Stick has stated Daredevil is still 'sloppy'? Daredevil has not even finished most his training with Stick and when Stick came back, Stick still considered him sloppy. Shiva on the other hand masters fighting styles yearly and has DC top MA's like Batman begging her to train them. http://i151.photobuc...LadyShiva56.jpg http://i151.photobuc...LadyShiva57.jpg http://i151.photobuc...LadyShiva58.jpg http://i151.photobuc...LadyShiva59.jpg Shiva is clearly more skilled than Daredevil when it comes to Martial arts. To be fair...I didn't even say Shiva stomps.