Rumble 14527 General Zod vs. Loki

[Guest bigballerju]

Yeah I noticed as well the suit had some kind of shielding and has super-human durability on top of it.

[Guest Supes Rulez]

Zod. Even though magic can affect Kryptonians, it doesn't exactly guarantee a victory for Loki. The blasts from him scepter could at the most stun Zod, but only for a brief moment. That's all the time Zod needs to come right up to Loki and smash him. Plus his armor could absorb some of the blast.

 

 

And if he doesn't feel like smashing Loki, he could just fry him with his heat vision 

[Guest force_echo]

It's both - technology and magic - more so magical than technological. And Loki's innate abilities are magical from my understanding - he's a skilled magician. The only thing that might be technological (and technically also magical), is the scepter he utilizes that enhances his powers.

I'm pretty sure they made it clear in Thor that their magic is just very advanced science.

[Indolent]

Thor explicitly states to Jane Foster that Science and Magic are one and the same, indistinguishable. My understanding from that is a blend of both, not purely science and that there is presence of magic.

 

It would explain why Loki's capable of using magic without having seemingly anything on his person, you know, technological, aside throwing daggers, in the early stages of Thor against the Frost Giants (His illusions). Anyways...

[Guest Jason Redfield]

Thor explicitly states to Jane Foster that Science and Magic are one and the same, indistinguishable. My understanding from that is a blend of both, not purely science and that there is presence of magic.

 

It would explain why Loki's capable of using magic without having seemingly anything on his person, you know, technological, aside throwing daggers, in the early stages of Thor against the Frost Giants (His illusions). Anyways...

 

I get where you're coming from, it's just that I really got the implication that it was all advanced science. As I understand it, Thor's comment was more in line with Clark's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

It doesn't make that tech hocus-pocus, it just means that it appears that way to those who don't know better.

[Indolent]

I actually understand that - and I actually disagree there.

[Guest force_echo]

Thor explicitly states to Jane Foster that Science and Magic are one and the same, indistinguishable. My understanding from that is a blend of both, not purely science and that there is presence of magic.

 

It would explain why Loki's capable of using magic without having seemingly anything on his person, you know, technological, aside throwing daggers, in the early stages of Thor against the Frost Giants (His illusions). Anyways...

Yeah, which, if put into context with Jane Foster indicating the wormhole as a space-time Einstein warp and the whole "Science sufficiently developed seems like magic" dialogue occurring through the whole movie before she meets Thor, it's plainly obvious that the interpretation is that Asgardian Magic is just highly advanced science, not some kind of blend of science and magic.

 

Right, because every science-based technology is visible. Nanotechnology and genetic engineering must be just fields dreamed up by crackpots.

[Guest Dr. Pymp(mex)]

To comment on magic and science being the same. I think Thor means to say that as an example of course is that his Hammer is able to produce lightning that our Earth can produce, there is no difference in the actual lightning per se, but just what is creating it.

 

Now about his immortality, the "apples' could just very well be an apple that has nutritional value besides just vitamins, it may have an element not known to "humans" and therefore it is just magic to us.

 

Good example is in Lord of the Rings, where Wormtongue is fascinated with Saruman's "fire inducing sand" the gun powder that Saruman uses to power up his bomb to destroy Helm's Deep's walls at it's weakest.

 

Now what I do not get is how a) Thor can say that since in the comics there is magic that is different than science. Example: Doom has science and is shown to have magical abilities. Reed Richards is all science, but fails to understand magic.

 

Mind you that Reed Richards is able to contend with alien races's tech intelligence and still fails at magic. SO to me there is a huge difference and both are two completely different things

[Guest Jason Redfield]

Now what I do not get is how a) Thor can say that since in the comics there is magic that is different than science. Example: Doom has science and is shown to have magical abilities. Reed Richards is all science, but fails to understand magic.

 

Mind you that Reed Richards is able to contend with alien races's tech intelligence and still fails at magic. SO to me there is a huge difference and both are two completely different things

This is movieverse. I've got the feeling that they went with the advanced science route in order to make the whole thing more palatable to moviegoers as opposed to comic book readers. Just conjecture, though.

[Indolent]

Yeah, which, if put into context with Jane Foster indicating the wormhole as a space-time Einstein warp and the whole "Science sufficiently developed seems like magic" dialogue occurring through the whole movie before she meets Thor, it's plainly obvious that the interpretation is that Asgardian Magic is just highly advanced science, not some kind of blend of science and magic.

 

Right, because every science-based technology is visible. Nanotechnology and genetic engineering must be just fields dreamed up by crackpots.

 

I'm aware of that - I'm arguing that it's not only science but that there's a presence of magic.

 

Do you have actual evidence of this or is it hearsay Aside that, Loki's also regarded by the Asgardians themselves as a master of magic - does this mean Loki from Thor and The Avengers is technically a scientific genius in respect to the entirety of the science that composes of Asgardian "Magic"? A simple google search and I find that it's more so science but there's some traces of magic, hence a blend - many others think the same and many others have observed the same film as you and I. It looks easy to determine from the surface but get down to it and it's not exactly easy. And it wasn't throughout the entire movie - the only mention of Clarke's law was Thor's elaboration to Jane Foster before the campfire iirc. The Rosen Bridge was mentioned prior to Thor's arrival and that was all there was afterwards. >.>

[Guest Jason Redfield]

I'm aware of that - I'm arguing that it's not only science but that there's a presence of magic.

 

Do you have actual evidence of this or is it hearsay

 

It's all ultimately just hearsay and opinions based on observations and inference, regardless of which camp you're in . Google searches and the like don't really change that. So unless Marvel or whoever comes out and confirms it one way or another...

[Guest bigballerju]

 Kevin Feige said himself in a old interview it's highly advanced technology that the Asgardians use. To us it just looks like magic. So yea Loki doesn't use magic really.  I remember it being said he was the master of trickery or something like that. Not magic.  Here is a link to a old interview:

 

http://collider.com/kevin-feige-interview-thor/

[baneblade]

Judging purely from the Avengers, Loki has no chance in hell (or heaven) or God's green earth to win this. Simply put, he was slow, hesitant, even made a joke of upclose (Hulk). What makes anyone think he will drop Zod, a chief nuisance among the headstrong Kryptonians, at whim? Not happenign in this fight. Zod wins.

[Callisto]

Match Final Results

General Zod: 22

Loki: 9