DBZ Power Levels Thread?

[Guest Adam Safran]

I'm thinking that having a semi-official thread on the discussion boards for DBZ chars mgith be good. Given that every single thread with them ever turns into a flame war, I think having a thread people into the series and not can look up for feats, power levels, etc would be a good idea rather than having every single thread start off with an extended debate of just what the chars are capable of, and with the DBZ fans feeling like they're being flamed and insulted, and the fans of other stuff feeling like they're pulling capabilities out of nowhere. So, having a thread entirely for people to post DBZ stats and feats couldn't hurt given how common they are used in the forums, and let people get idea of actual statistics and such rather than argue on a case by case basis.

[Guest Jailer411]

This might work, but only if some order is established.

[Guest Nd5]

Power levels for the Sayin saga.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzFhs661edI

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXRc_6yCiNw

[Guest Adam Safran]

It can'thurt to let people come up with official numbers, or at least explain the reasoning for the numbers they have, and give out consensus on them to say waht they're capable of and have one central thread to reference for power levels feats and estimates, rather than a hodgepodge every singel DBZ matchup and get flames over whether the numbers are right or made upt on the spot, etc. We have a 'report' function over in the forums now - if someone starts to flame, then you report on him and post him in the 'bad players' thread. And we enforce politeness.

[Guest Jailer411]

It can'thurt to let people come up with official numbers, or at least explain the reasoning for the numbers they have, and give out consensus on them to say waht they're capable of and have one central thread to reference for power levels feats and estimates, rather than a hodgepodge every singel DBZ matchup and get flames over whether the numbers are right or made upt on the spot, etc. We have a 'report' function over in the forums now - if someone starts to flame, then you report on him and post him in the 'bad players' thread. And we enforce politeness.

By order, I meant a contained way to have arguments. Every other DBZ related match on the old CBUB went to hell.

[Guest Adam Safran]

By order, I meant a contained way to have arguments. Every other DBZ related match on the old CBUB went to hell.

 

I'm aware. Which is why we mod the flamers, and hope that it keeps itself contained and gives some level of quatnification, or at least argument for it. Given how many DBZ matches and fans there are, and how often ti turns into flamewars, and that the DBZ fans do have some legitimate beef with how often they get argued against and F'd and flamed.. It can't hurt to try and make it at least coherent for arguing purpsoes.

[Marvel Man]

This will end badly..... Here's a quote from a famous CBUBer.

 

"DBZ + Math/Science = Anti-Life Equation"

 

-- The Once & Forever

[Guest Adam Safran]

I'm aware Marv, but no reason we can't at least try adn do it.. Much less the propensity for threads involving it to turn into flame wars,w hich we as debaters should strive to avoid. So, being ale to quantify things makes debating much easier and less prone to insult throwing, which makes everyone look bad on eitehr side.

[Skirmisher]

It would have to have the first post done by an Impartial member. So that that member could peruse through the thread and use definable and well supported feats, then update the first post with them using an Edit. It couldn't be done by a Fan of DBZ because every feat is "Definable" to them (us, though I try to stick to reason), and any haters out there would just throw most if not all feats out the window.

[Guest Adam Safran]

It would have to have the first post done by an Impartial member. So that that member could peruse through the thread and use definable and well supported feats, then update the first post with them using an Edit. It couldn't be done by a Fan of DBZ because every feat is "Definable" to them (us, though I try to stick to reason), and any haters out there would just throw most if not all feats out the window.

 

Over on CBR they tend to have neutral mods specifically for judgement calls on feats and stuff. Ie, if there's a specific scenario used in matches for chars, they call it for KO purposes.. They call what's viable strength feats, if someone is bullet time, can fight at FTL.. Either we could see if one fo the mods would be wililng ot incorporate that as a neutral 'jdugement call' stadnpoint as a formal carryover from CBR, or whether they like the freewheeling style here and don't wnat to put too many limits and such on things. Or we the debaters could discuss someone impartial and grant them 'dealbreaker' status on judgement calls on this and generally respect their decisions.

[Marvel Man]

I admire that you're trying this, but honestly, I'd rather read DC Comics.

 

Ok, maybe I wouldn't go that far, but you get my point. I want no part in this (no offense).

[Guest Adam Safran]

I admire that you're trying this, but honestly, I'd rather read DC Comics.

 

Ok, maybe I wouldn't go that far, but you get my point. I want no part in this (no offense).

 

NO harm taken. I generally argue against DBZ unless it's clearly a mismatch (Where I generally say it's a hideously mismatch and the more popular char is winnign or the fight is stupidly one sided and not a good amtch otherwise) but I do notice that most of the amtches it gets tend to be flamed and scratched, and there's no reason we as debaters, given how common it is, can't try and hold ourselves to a better standarda nd such.

[Skirmisher]

Ok, I'll try and scrape together all the evidence I have to prove the Z-Fighters (After Freeza) fight at FTL speeds.

 

I have a copy of the Toriyama Quote.

 

"[Dragon Ball] has come a long way. They went from running at super speed to moving at the speed of light!"

This quote was taken after the Majin Buu saga, however Each Major Saga is where Toriyama wanted to end it, but was forced to continue.

 

"[Dragon Balls] success "forced" Toriyama to continue working on Dragon Ball from 1984 to 1995"

The Major event that "Ended" Dragon Ball Z was the Freeza Saga, and even after it was pressed into further development, Goku came back with his now famous Instant Transmission, which allowed him to travel at Light Speed when he daybued it. Since then Goku has actually made it infinitely faster showed by his ability to move from Earth to Namek, a Canon ~4000 light year distance in the blink of an eye. As well to move between Dimensions in his ability to move from our reality to the afterlife and even to Hell and back.

 

I would place his Quote at referencing the End of the Freeza Saga in his assessment of where the Z-Fighters attained "Light Speed" and since the Z-Fighters have fought evenly with fighters who could speed blitz Freeza they would have had to attain speeds higher than "Light Speed" hence they are FTL after Freeza. How many times past light, I can not quantify, though simple analysis of how fast a character is in respect to another could be done. I would think by using percentages, as in "Super Piccolo seemed maybe 10% faster than Android 17" If done in a consistent manner from their last Numerical Speed Feat it should be possible to attain numbers for End of Series Fighters.

[Guest Adam Safran]

Thanks Skirmisher, that's just what I was hoping someone would do for this thread! And I hope some of the DBZ fans from the forums that are good with feats or at least can give power level estimates in ways you can follow them chime in too.

[Guest boston_celtics]

Because this is a DBZ respect thread, I won't start an arguement.

 

I'll just say that "Word-of-God" is not necesarily cannon.

 

There.

[Guest Adam Safran]

Because this is a DBZ respect thread, I won't start an arguement.

 

I'll just say that "Word-of-God" is not necesarily cannon.

 

There.

 

Yeah. Good point. I mean, George Lucas has explicitly said the Enterprise-D could beat a Star Destroyer,and all of the fans would argue quite convincingly otherwise..

[Skirmisher]

Yeah. Good point. I mean, George Lucas has explicitly said the Enterprise-D could beat a Star Destroyer,and all of the fans would argue quite convincingly otherwise..

 

Well, a little off topic but I would think that if the Enterprise Kamikaze'd into a Stardestroyer at warp then there would be no more Stardestroyer... Like a Ship version of the Infinite Mass Punch.

 

 

As for Word of God and the Light Speed quote, I backed it up with actual in character statements as well as feats that actually proved it to be faster than what the characters previously stated...

[Marvel Man]

Instant Transmission is merely teleportation.

 

......I'm sorry.

 

It slipped out.....

[Guest MarvelFan15]

Instant Transmission is merely teleportation.

 

......I'm sorry.

 

It slipped out.....

 

It needed to be said...

[Nesh]

Yeah. Good point. I mean, George Lucas has explicitly said the Enterprise-D could beat a Star Destroyer,and all of the fans would argue quite convincingly otherwise..

But George Lucas created Star Wars so he would know everything about it. So in that case the fans have their heads up their butts.

[Nesh]

Instant Transmission is merely teleportation.

 

......I'm sorry.

 

It slipped out.....

Hey you're right; it's instantaneos movement to any place Goku can sens ki from. However he did transverse Namek in a few seconds to save Vegeta from Frieza.

[Skirmisher]

Hey you're right; it's instantaneos movement to any place Goku can sens ki from. However he did transverse Namek in a few seconds to save Vegeta from Frieza.

 

That's my point. It was the Freeza Fight and the time around it that made them Light Speed to Toriyama. He only added on IT to make a point.

 

Also, consider the point of Faster than sight.

 

To be faster than sight you have to be able to move at least a meter every 24th of a second, as Humans see in 24 frames per second. This means that to a regular Human Faster than Sight is 24 meters per second. Add this to the fact that each time they face an opponent that is faster than their sight, they eventually train themselves up to that speed and are able to perceive events 24 times faster. This allows them to take on that person that was once faster than sight to them. But what happens when someone who is faster than sight to a regular human encounters someone who is faster than sight to them? That new person would have to be moving at 24 times the speed of the original faster than sight fighter.

 

• Dragon Ball was Faster than sight: 24m/s (Note that their power levels are around 100-200)
  
• Piccolo and Goku at the end of DB were faster than the sight of earlier fighters: 24m/s x 24 = 576m/s (PL: 200-400)
  
• Radits was FTS to both Goku and Piccolo when they fought: 576m/s x 24 = 13,824m/s (PL: 1200)
  
• Vegeta 1st fight was FTS to the regular fighters: 13,824m/s x 24 = 331,776m/s (PL: 20,000-40,000)
  
• The Faster Members of Ginyu Force were Faster than sight to Vageta: 331,776m/s x 24 = 7,962,624m/s (PL:40,000-90,000)
  
• Goku was FTS to the Ginyu Force: 7,962,624m/s x 24 = 191,102,976m/s (PL: 90,000-180,000)
  
• Freeza Final Form was FTS to the regular Fighters: 191,102,976m/s x 24 = 4,586,471,424m/s (PL: 120,000,000-150,000,000)
  

 

This is a bit of an advanced concept and I'll be the first to say that the numbers might be slightly wrong. However the general look of it points to either Light Speed or FTL By and/or After Freeza.

[Guest boston_celtics]

Your proof is based on a system that they stopped employing in the first season.

[Guest boston_celtics]

I know what you'll say. That power level system in still applicble, they just stopped using it, and I'll ask for proof and you'll give me proof and I'll refute it, and it goes around and around in a circular arguement.

 

We need something solid that will quantify as actual proof. A>B>C logic is no good, cause that means Deathstroke is FTL.

 

* Dragon Ball was Faster than sight: 24m/s (Note that their power levels are around 100-200)

* Piccolo and Goku at the end of DB were faster than the sight of earlier fighters: 24m/s x 24 = 576m/s (PL: 200-400)

* Radits was FTS to both Goku and Piccolo when they fought: 576m/s x 24 = 13,824m/s (PL: 1200)

* Vegeta 1st fight was FTS to the regular fighters: 13,824m/s x 24 = 331,776m/s (PL: 20,000-40,000)

* The Faster Members of Ginyu Force were Faster than sight to Vageta: 331,776m/s x 24 = 7,962,624m/s (PL:40,000-90,000)

* Goku was FTS to the Ginyu Force: 7,962,624m/s x 24 = 191,102,976m/s (PL: 90,000-180,000)

* Freeza Final Form was FTS to the regular Fighters: 191,102,976m/s x 24 = 4,586,471,424m/s (PL: 120,000,000-150,000,000)

 

problem is, skirmisher, you assume that the faster you are, your sight increases with your speed. The fastest man on Earth does not see things any slower than the slowest man.

 

NOTE: CRAP! Forgot this is a respect thread. OK, I'm gone.

[Guest Adam Safran]

and that, as near as I've always been explained it, Boston, is how DBZ feats system works. If one char can beat another, it's assumed that char is more powerful than that. At least that's what I've been told every singel DBZ match ever as to how the feat system doesn't apply to it, going by CBR feat descriptions as debated over oN CBUB, which doesn't exactly hold the same feat system in place.